Feminism and Gender Equality

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Aberforth

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Yesterday was International Women's Day. It is a global day celebrating the social, economic, cultural and political achievements of women. The day also marks a call to action for accelerating gender parity.

International Women's Day (IWD) has been observed since in the early 1900's - a time of great expansion and turbulence in the industrialized world that saw booming population growth and the rise of radical ideologies. International Women's Day is a collective day of global celebration and a call for gender parity. No one government, NGO, charity, corporation, academic institution, women's network or media hub is solely responsible for International Women's Day. Many organizations declare an annual IWD theme that supports their specific agenda or cause, and some of these are adopted more widely with relevance than others.

It is a great opportunity for us, as societies, to assess the situation of women all around the world. How is it in your country? Do you think IWD is still needed? Do you consider yourself a feminist?

 
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Pernicious

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Modern American and European feminism is a cancer. Feminism in countries like Saudi Arabia, and other societies with a true patriarchy, is what we should be supporting. I believe IWD should be a yearly aerial bombing campaign against those governments who allow women to be beheaded in the streets. That would be feminism worth fighting for.
 

Outlander

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Feminism is great. Third wave Feminism is, like @Law abiding heretic trash. because it defies the point of Feminism, being equality between the genders.
 

The Mild Mannered Robot

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I do consider myself a feminist, by which I mean that I recognize that there exists a power imbalance between men and women everywhere, most of the time slanted in the man's favor, and I'd like to even the playing field as much as possible.

Norway is a pretty equitable society all around, but IWD is still observed here, and I think it still deserves to be.
 

Nor'baal

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As with all political movements there are good sides and bad sides, so before I go on let me provide a more balanced example of such groups:

Islam:
Bad: Allah is the greatest, death to the west style lunacy. This leads to vast tensions between countries, terrorism and a vicious circle of hatred and anger.
Good: Open minded, inclusive discussion about the contribution Islam has had to art, science, mathematics and history.

British Conservatives:
Bad: Using the excuse of 'Family Values' to hide Homo-Phobia in addition to using protection of our borders to allow for racism and fear-mongering.
Good: Promoting entrepreneurial concepts and driving up the standard of living, through wealth creation and the generation of new jobs. Economic Liberalism.


Environmentalism:
Bad: All oil companies are wrong, which I will tweet about from my iPhone, made using Oil and other resources produced from such companies.
Good: Making people see, through educated and well thought out, respectful discourse, the need to protect our environment and providing solutions to our energy needs.

With that in mind, I shall move to my next point. Feminism is a social movement, much like LGBT (or LGBT+ as it is now), or Black Lives Matter, that believes something that in the modern world I think everyone should believe in -
all people are born equal. To this end, I do not say I am a feminist, I say ''I believe in equality.''

Some Feminists are bad, of course they are, there are - as shown above - bad parts to every social movement, but that shouldn't taint the entire group. I'll give an example here:

In October of 2015 I was walking into a Conference, and someone jumped in front of me holding a Feminist sign, they screamed ''Fascist Murdering Prick, Patriarchy!'' at me. In my hands I was holding a leaflet that said ''Equality, Diversity, Liberty'' and was on my way to present to a group of young people about the inequality between men and women in China. The lady, who for very good reasons, was angry, did not see that - she only saw a man in a suit, walking into a conference, and took that anger she had out on me.

I didn't then turn around and thing ''Screw you, I now hate all women.'' I instead thought, as should anyone who sees a large explosion of anger, ''Why are they angry?'' (I didn't ask her, as she had a lot of friends who were by this time shouting 'Scum!' at me and my friends.)

In conclusion: No I am not a feminist, I am not a member of the Black Lives Matter Movement, I am a believer in Equality however, and I think that is a belief in which members of the various groups can, and should, all share. International Womens Day is something we should continue across the world regardless of those minority groups on either side of the debate who would seek to hijack it for the wrong reasons.



 

Brandon Rhea

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If you believe in equality between men and women, you are a feminist. I'll never understand people who say they aren't feminists.

Nor'baal, the type of person you described isn't so much a feminist. Based on what little I know about her, she sounds like a misandrist.

Big difference.
 

Nor'baal

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If you believe in equality between men and women, you are a feminist. I'll never understand people who say they aren't feminists.

Nor'baal, the type of person you described isn't so much a feminist. Based on what little I know about her, she sounds like a misandrist.

Big difference.

I was genuinely not aware that was a word.

This certainly changed my (previously rather well thought out) answer. A lot of people run away from the term "Femenist" due to it being hijacked by some people.

Perhaps that's the incorrect thing to do, as it kind of proves their point, and makes those who don't identify as feminists appear 'backwards' - which often isn't the case.

An interesting point Brandon, and, I learned a new word, that basically reshapes a significant part of my point of view on the matter.
 

Pernicious

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Brandon, wouldn't that just be egalitarianism instead of feminism?

EDIT: From what I've seen at my highschool, my college campus, on social media, and the news, feminism nowadays isn't about equality in any way. What's really stood out to me is when professors who teach about feminism insist that you can't rape men or be sexist to men, because women can't be in a position of power. Like the terms conservative and liberal have changed their meaning and context over time, so has feminism.
 
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Nor'baal

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I would plonk the image in a spoiler to be on the safe side :)
 

+SpaceJesus+

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So let's everyone unanimously agree that the the kind of "feminism" detailed above is nothing but an abomination of a good ideal practiced by misandrists and wannabe Nazis, mkay? ;)

Seriously, I really think there are several issues regarding gender inequality that need to be addressed, and I believe they will be addressed in the future, but it is so difficult to do so when this kind of practice exists. How are you supposed to get people to believe in women's rights when the concept of them is constantly diluted, deformed and then shoved down their throats? When the very word feminism is made into a bad word because of what these people are doing, you would think that they would figure out they are doing something wrong. And it's not just a small isolated group. This is a huge majority of people that serve to further problems between genders. In fact, most people cater to this side without knowing it. The social double standards are ridiculous. I have no respect for any person who thinks that a women hitting her counterpart is okay, though that's with either gender really. It's just that for some reason women can hit men because apparently women are weaker (cause that's not sexist at all).

Men can be raped by women. Period. Don't anyone EVER try to tell me that a man tied to a bed or drugged to the point of incoherence and then forced into sexual situations is not being raped. It's rape, by definition of what rape is. Period. There is no power struggle in rape. If the emperor of the universe is drugged and forced into sex against his will by a common person, him having a higher societal ranking does not make what happens any less rape. There is no debate here. Women can be sexist. Using social privelages created by political correctness to insult men and try to take away their rights is sexism. Period.

Women are not smarter than men, tougher than men, more responsible than men, more caring than men, etc. anyone who argues as much does not believe in equality. Women are not dumber than men, weaker than men, less responsible than men, less caring than men, etc. and anyone who thinks so does not believe in equality.

To all of the people who actually think women can be equal without being forced to adopt aclearly corrupted mindset, thank you. Please keep vying for equality and trying to stop this nonsense. :D

EDIT: apologies if this came of as ranty. If you guys haven't notice the whole men can't be raped thing Pernicious talked about hits me right in the angry switch.
 
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Pernicious

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Oh I hope you don't think that's what I believe! I was just saying that's the new wave feminism political platform right now.
 

+SpaceJesus+

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Oh that's not what I meant. It's just that idea in general is just repulsive to me. You just brought it up.
 

Brandon Rhea

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Brandon, wouldn't that just be egalitarianism instead of feminism?
To me that feels like saying "All Lives Matter" instead of "Black Lives Matter." Yes, the statement/word may be true, but its use over "feminism" (or "Black Lives Matter") obscures the intention in order to make those who already have inherent power feel more comfortable about the fact that other people want equality too.

From what I've seen at my highschool, my college campus, on social media, and the news, feminism nowadays isn't about equality in any way.
When you start a point with an annecdote, your point loses its value. What you've seen can shape your view, but only if you let it. And if you let what you described above shape your view, then you'll be led to incorrect conclusions like "feminism nowadays isn't about equality in any way."

Equality is exactly what it's about.

You can't let the actions of some people (whose points of view you should still seek to understand, even if you disagree with them) color your perception. Otherwise, to quote someone who appears to have just been converted to a new way of thinking, what happens is:

A lot of people run away from the term "Femenist" due to it being hijacked by some people.

Perhaps that's the incorrect thing to do, as it kind of proves their point, and makes those who don't identify as feminists appear 'backwards' - which often isn't the case.
 

Pernicious

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You say feminism is about equality, but what type of feminism? What branch of the movement over time? Its a political movement with variations in schools of thought.

Third wave feminism is a type feminism, but its not the good kind.
 

Brandon Rhea

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How is third wave feminism not about equality? It's inherently meant to expand feminism to talk about equality in more than just white women, and to expand the scope beyond just law.

And before we go any further I just want to point out the obvious absurdity of what will surely be a conversation about feminism held entirely by a group of dudes here. I would love to see our female members join this conversation as well.
 

Pernicious

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If feminism really is about equality, men can talk about it just as well as women. If this is only about women then its not equality. It has to be both sides, equally. Men and women are already equal, at least in the US, in terms of human rights. First wave (and kinda second wave) feminism saw to that. Whats obviously absurd is not being able to talk about something effectively simply because of your gender. Doesn't sound too equal to me.

The actions of third wave feminists define third wave feminism. Its oppressive and anti-male. Its about destroying freedom of speech. Third wave feminists want the accusation of rape to be equal to proof. Professors and those with degrees in women's studies, the leaders of third wave feminism, will insist that men cannot be raped or be victims of sexism. Anything a male does that they view is wrong, which goes all the way down to how men sit comfortably, is chalked up to be toxic masculinity, as if being masculine is wrong.

In short, third wave feminism is a ideology of hate and bigotry.
 

+SpaceJesus+

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Let it be known my quarrel is not with feminism, but with misandry masquerading as feminism. Feminism is fine, and beneficial actually. It seeks to create equality and understanding between genders. If only the ideology would return to its original good intentions, as I've seen many individuals do

Also, where are the girls in all this. We need some female opinion on this thing. While both guys and girls each have a right to discuss feminism, having one group talk is probably not in the best interest of discussion.
 

Nameless

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Doing a great job by whining on tumblr and not using tampons. Making the world a better place, one false rape accusation at a time.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-to-happen-to-you-than-being-f-fmeu

Now show me on this fedora where those evil feminists hurt you.

If feminism really is about equality, men can talk about it just as well as women. If this is only about women then its not equality. It has to be both sides, equally. Men and women are already equal, at least in the US, in terms of human rights. First wave (and kinda second wave) feminism saw to that. Whats obviously absurd is not being able to talk about something effectively simply because of your gender. Doesn't sound too equal to me.

The actions of third wave feminists define third wave feminism. Its oppressive and anti-male. Its about destroying freedom of speech. Third wave feminists want the accusation of rape to be equal to proof. Professors and those with degrees in women's studies, the leaders of third wave feminism, will insist that men cannot be raped or be victims of sexism. Anything a male does that they view is wrong, which goes all the way down to how men sit comfortably, is chalked up to be toxic masculinity, as if being masculine is wrong.

In short, third wave feminism is a ideology of hate and bigotry.

No one said that men shouldn't discuss the topic. It's a simple fact that since the topic is primary about women that their voices should be louder than ours. To go back to the Black Lives Matter movement the black voices speaking about the oppression they face should be more important than the white voices for and against them. If you aren't a member of an oppressed group then you cannot truly speak about the things that group deals with. The most you can do is support them when called upon. Though even that has its pitfalls because no group has a singular homogeneous voice. Really the best course of action is to shut up and listen.

Now as for the claim that men cannot be raped, that is a product of the patriarchy not of feminism. If a feminist espouses that view then she is actually supporting the very entity she claims to be against. The goal is not to make rape accusations equivalent to proof, but rather to ensure that every rape accusation is taken seriously and that measures are taken to guarantee that the victims are not further victimized by the search for the truth. As far as toxic masculinity, it is a real thing, and it hurts men as well as women. It leads to things like the aforementioned inability of men to be raped, it prevents men from acting on any emotion besides anger, and it leads to violent repercussions against any who dare live contrary to it. The whole idea of masculinity and femininity is so backwards and disgusting that it really should be phased out altogether. Men don't and shouldn't behave in certain ways just because they are men, and vice versa for women.

Also, men can't be victims of sexism as men are not the oppressed group. They can only be victims of the patriarchy that claims to protect them. This is much the same as the fact that in most countries racism towards white people is a myth. Just because someone was mean to you and hurt your feelings doesn't mean you were a victim of sexism/racism. Rather those two things exist on an institutional level and work in insidious ways like the wage gap, shady hiring practices, and outright denial of services that should be basic human rights. For instance, women are less likely to be taken seriously by doctors, and black people are more likely to be murdered by the police.

Misandry does exist, but my favorite quote concerning that is "men hate women for the things they haven't done for them, women hate men for the things that have been done to them". Women's hatred of men doesn't exist in a vacuum and you can almost guarantee that if a woman has hatred for men in general it is likely because of the way men in her life have treated her. Whereas misogynists tend to hate women simply because no girl was ever willing to sleep with them. Then the misandrist protests and insults while the misogynist goes on a shooting spree.
 
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