Immortals and CAIN

[Dmitri]

There seems to be a bit of a confusion on the Force wielders in CAIN. BN, could you reiterate what you plan to do? Hopefully me, you, and Sam can figure out this situation and resolve it without anyone getting angry.

 

[Black Noise]

I expected Sam would be going over my head to you about this, hence why I was trying to hit you up on MSN earlier haha.
Ok.

Two of the three branches of Cain are militaristic branches(3rd being sleepers), I planned for these branches to be made of mostly FS PCs, and those FS PCs would dually have a rank in the Immortal Order.

Sam sees this as a DIRECT attack on the Immortal order, claiming I am simply power-hungry and am trying to increase my IC control over the faction. He claims this would completely split the faction by having 'CAIN Immortals.

Frankly, to me so far the Immortals have been near useless. Admitably, they haven't had a chance to prove themselves on the battle field yet, but regardless of that Sam has NOT gone out and recruited people as I have, he has not searched for members. He straight told me I should have asked for help and permission from him, and that there already are Immortals working for CAIN. However, when I requested that he name one PC immortal that works for CAIN, he ignored my question and changed the topic back to how I would 'split the already small faction.'

I'm not angry, please don't read my post as angry. I'm simply very annoyed that it even came to this. I don't believe this has to be a problem.

 

[Dmitri]

One concern I have, and this is a little bit of a side thing, is that population-wise, not a majority of Chiss would be Force Sensitive, so realistically it might be better to have a more even split between FS and non-FS in regards to some agents. However, that is only my opinion, so I am open to persuasion on tilting one way or the other.

BN, could you give me a more description on how FS are needed more in these three branches. If memory is correct, I believe CAIN started off with four main areas/branches: intelligence, diplomacy, covert ops., and the sleeper agents (though the last kinda falls into the first and third). BN, Sam, could you please articulate why you stand where you are. I would prefer to get an understanding between your guys' stances so that I may rule without ignorance influencing me.

As for the recruitment, that is debatable. It hold some credence, but I'd rather not focus too much on that, though it does help. If possible, I would like to see you two work together on this. Still, I would like to see your guys' stance first and I'll see what I can do to help eliviate this situation.

 

[Alexander Dregar]

How about this for a good balance between you two? Some force sensitives fall through the cracks, now, imagine they are now members of CAIN, they find out they are force sensitive, but they are already trained CAIN agents, so instead they are sent to the Immortals for training, then return to CAIN after they can control their abilities. This way, BN controls only CAIN members and doesn't step into the Immortals. They can be a small group of elite CAIN specialists that use the force.

Does that sound better to you Sam? And does that sound at all reasonable BN?

 

[Black Noise]

One concern I have, and this is a little bit of a side thing, is that population-wise, not a majority of Chiss would be Force Sensitive, so realistically it might be better to have a more even split between FS and non-FS in regards to some agents. However, that is only my opinion, so I am open to persuasion on tilting one way or the other.

BN, could you give me a more description on how FS are needed more in these three branches. If memory is correct, I believe CAIN started off with four main areas/branches: intelligence, diplomacy, covert ops., and the sleeper agents (though the last kinda falls into the first and third). BN, Sam, could you please articulate why you stand where you are. I would prefer to get an understanding between your guys' stances so that I may rule without ignorance influencing me.

As for the recruitment, that is debatable. It hold some credence, but I'd rather not focus too much on that, though it does help. If possible, I would like to see you two work together on this. Still, I would like to see your guys' stance first and I'll see what I can do to help eliviate this situation.

True. One of the two teams planned out(shadow walkers) is mostly non-FS already. But in regards to a non-FS population Zach fixed that when he wrote up the Phoenix virus.

It is less of FS being needed and more of 'not really seeing many non-FS people being interested.' I am not adverse to non-FS, I want non-FS CAIN agents. As just said, it simply doesn't appear to me as if many non-FS are interested. I may be wrong, but that's how it appears to me.

FS and non-FS would be expected to work together in their respective teams under the three branches. The three planned branches of CAIN would be Sleepers, Diplomats, and Covert Ops. The intelligence is gathered by the sleepers, correct? It seemed redundant to me to have a sleepers branch and an intelligence branch as they both father intel while waiting below the radar.

The recruitment isn't really a big deal, it's more of just an annoyance to me that branches(the immortal 'manipulators' were being called out as examples by Sam when he neither had people in that branch nor had recruited people for it.

How about this for a good balance between you two? Some force sensitives fall through the cracks, now, imagine they are now members of CAIN, they find out they are force sensitive, but they are already trained CAIN agents, so instead they are sent to the Immortals for training, then return to CAIN after they can control their abilities. This way, BN controls only CAIN members and doesn't step into the Immortals. They can be a small group of elite CAIN specialists that use the force.

Does that sound better to you Sam? And does that sound at all reasonable BN?

While a good solution for how CAIN agents get trained, that doesn't solve the core problem here Alex.

For example, lupe's TC is FS, he is a trained Immortal who leads the Shadiw Walkers. Once the Shadow Walkers are merged with CAIN, do they cease to be Immortals? Who do they answer to if I give an order contrary to Sam? Who is the ultimate leader? That is really the argument here.

 

[Dmitri]

Well, in reality, the intelligence comes from all three. What, you thought our diplomats were a punch of useless pansies like the Alliance ones? :CSly

 

[Black Noise]

Well, in reality, the intelligence comes from all three. What, you thought our diplomats were a punch of useless pansies like the Alliance ones? :CSly

I see :CSly
Also? A bunch of pansies? You give them too much praise :CHappy

 

[Count Sam]

Okay let me get a few things clear. First the immortal order is a small faction both OOCly and ICly. ICly wise the Chiss has less amount of population than the other factions and OOcly we have less Pcs as well. So let me get things straight as Weiss said the Chiss has a small amount of force users and technically they are all in the Immortal order. The population is really narrow that dividing it is really a bad idea in my opinion, I also don't clearly understand till now why you want to have a sub faction that serves the same purpose as the Immortals when you could simply worked with me on the Immortal order.

Also about recruiting well we have a few members back then but most of them either left or retired because they had nothing to do which is again not my problem. I simply can't wage war and send the immortals into battles while the whole faction was trying to maintain peace with everyone else. Also BN you say that you have been recruiting people, but really I haven't seen any activity within CAIN since Zach created them. Also BN as a member of the Chiss leadership you have way more duties than me so I clearly don't understand why you are trying to compare what I have been doing with what you have been doing.

I am sorry if I came offensive as well but I don't like what you are trying to get at because I have been trying my best to help the faction and the Immortal order even before Weiss was the FL. I also still have a lot of plans and stuff on my list to do for the immortal.

Also it might be my opinion only but we really need to keep the faction narrowed down till we become more active. Technically, expanding the faction while we are still small is clearly not a good idea.

 

[Dmitri]

What if instead of being separate, they're the same? The agents I mean. Basically, rather than having two groups of Immortals, certain Immortals would work with CAIN, specializing as certain things and be dually enrolled as a CAIN agent? Just an idea. Unless neither side believes a compromise can be obtained, I'd like to see you guys figure this out, as it's your babies and I would like to have your thoughts in this matter rather than just quickly stomping over all other opinions. Alex, Lupe, you guys are free to add your thoughts as well, if you want.

 

[Black Noise]

What if instead of being separate, they're the same? The agents I mean. Basically, rather than having two groups of Immortals, certain Immortals would work with CAIN, specializing as certain things and be dually enrolled as a CAIN agent? Just an idea. Unless neither side believes a compromise can be obtained, I'd like to see you guys figure this out, as it's your babies and I would like to have your thoughts in this matter rather than just quickly stomping over all other opinions. Alex, Lupe, you guys are free to add your thoughts as well, if you want.

This is entirely what I want. The only point at which Sam disagrees is where I say, in the unlikely event of a contradicting order, they ultimately answer to me(and I answer to you).

 

[Count Sam]

What if instead of being separate, they're the same? The agents I mean. Basically, rather than having two groups of Immortals, certain Immortals would work with CAIN, specializing as certain things and be dually enrolled as a CAIN agent? Just an idea. Unless neither side believes a compromise can be obtained, I'd like to see you guys figure this out, as it's your babies and I would like to have your thoughts in this matter rather than just quickly stomping over all other opinions. Alex, Lupe, you guys are free to add your thoughts as well, if you want.

Well I can roll with that. However; this is how things have been going so far if I am not mistaken. After all, the Immortal order manipulators were supposed to be automatically enrolled in CAIN as well. *Shrugs*

I also would be happy if things did not get really complicated since I am currently talking to Arcturus about the Immortal-sith integration program. So technically, there would be sith joining the Immortal order and I was hoping that things would not really end up turning into a cluster **** with a lot of different factions and sub factions getting involved in the Immortal order.

 

[Alexander Dregar]

Alright, to clear this up...who has control. That is easy! All Force Trained Chiss give their loyalty directly to the Imperator. While Nuru is the head of the Immortals, he is basically second in command of them, giving out orders directly from the Imperator, he himself has told me as much.

Therefor, the same would be said of any CAIN force users. It all branches back to the Imperator, they have the right to recall any Force user for their own purpose, their loyalty lies with them alone. While they serve the Immortals, and CAIN, they do not follow THEM alone, their loyalty is not given directly to Sam OR BN, but instead to Weiss, the Heliel. It solves every problem I can see, Weiss can intervine at any given time should he feel the need is there.