The Force Awakens - Thoughts and Reactions (SPOILERS WITHIN)

Herrith

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I think you are making a few assumptions that don't really line up with what was presented in the movie. First of being, Kylo ISN'T a Sith. Wild right? The Sith are dead and gone, and there has been nothing to indicate that either Kylo or Snipe are Sith. As far as what's presented in the movie, he's a half trained Jedi who fell to the darkside, and is now a half trained darksider who depends on wild rage more than skill. Lacking is the cold efficiency of the Sith because, well he's not a Sith.

As far as Rey being a Mary sue... Yeah a little bit, but I quite enjoyed her fight with Kylo. She's a scrapper, but no lightsaber duelist, and it shows. Up until she lets the force guide her she is seriously outmatched, with the pain fueled Kylo (pain and the darkside being pretty much the only thing keeping him standing at that point) easily pushing her back into a compromising position. As far as the force taking time to learn, that's more of a prequel trilogy idea that was introduced later, with the original concept being more about finding your "spiritual" center and being at peace. Like was only on Dagobah with Yoda for a few weeks, maybe a month, if my memory serves. After that he didn't go back until Roth.

Agreed that Phasma was a huge let down.

On to Film's duel with Kylo. Kylo is injured, he's not at 100%. He has a grievous injury and is using the dark side to harness the pain to keep him going. Hell his mental state is probably wrecked, he just murdered his father, so the darkside is likely the only thing keeping him from having a BSOD moment as well. And he still wrecks Finn, who is a trained melee combatant.

Also yes, Kylo is basically a complete noob who had only received half training in both the dark side and the light.

Not saying you are wrong for disliking it, even though I enjoyed it, but you have a few misconceptions that might be skewing your interpretation of the movie, leading to more dislike.
Honestly, Ren's face reveal was the most anticlimactic scene I've ever seen in any movie.

The trailers were all like 'OH MAN! KYLO REN'S A BIG DEAL MAN FACE REVEAL IS GONNA BE EPIC!'

Rey: "...creature behind a mask."

*Kylo pulls off helmet and music stops*

th
 

Brandon Rhea

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It was supposed to be that way. Kylo is a weak pretender, and you're supposed to see his face and go "really? that's it?"

Seeing that he's just some kid was 100% intended on JJ's part.
 

Herrith

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It was supposed to be that way. Kylo is a weak pretender, and you're supposed to see his face and go "really? that's it?"

Seeing that he's just some kid was 100% intended on JJ's part.
Honestly never thought of it that way. Same with half my friends.

Whenever I see that scene, I just laugh.
 

Sakie

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I think you are making a few assumptions that don't really line up with what was presented in the movie. First of being, Kylo ISN'T a Sith. Wild right? The Sith are dead and gone, and there has been nothing to indicate that either Kylo or Snipe are Sith. As far as what's presented in the movie, he's a half trained Jedi who fell to the darkside, and is now a half trained darksider who depends on wild rage more than skill. Lacking is the cold efficiency of the Sith because, well he's not a Sith.

As far as Rey being a Mary sue... Yeah a little bit, but I quite enjoyed her fight with Kylo. She's a scrapper, but no lightsaber duelist, and it shows. Up until she lets the force guide her she is seriously outmatched, with the pain fueled Kylo (pain and the darkside being pretty much the only thing keeping him standing at that point) easily pushing her back into a compromising position. As far as the force taking time to learn, that's more of a prequel trilogy idea that was introduced later, with the original concept being more about finding your "spiritual" center and being at peace. Like was only on Dagobah with Yoda for a few weeks, maybe a month, if my memory serves. After that he didn't go back until Roth.

Agreed that Phasma was a huge let down.

On to Film's duel with Kylo. Kylo is injured, he's not at 100%. He has a grievous injury and is using the dark side to harness the pain to keep him going. Hell his mental state is probably wrecked, he just murdered his father, so the darkside is likely the only thing keeping him from having a BSOD moment as well. And he still wrecks Finn, who is a trained melee combatant.

Also yes, Kylo is basically a complete noob who had only received half training in both the dark side and the light.

Not saying you are wrong for disliking it, even though I enjoyed it, but you have a few misconceptions that might be skewing your interpretation of the movie, leading to more dislike.
Yeah, you have some good points there. I would just like to clarify that I was writing that post really quickly on my phone and couldn't be bothered to clarify, at the time, that kylo isn't a sith. I was aware of that (unless, of course, snoke is somehow a Sith and he decided to make kylo one, too, but I very much doubt it).

In reference to what u said aboit kylo being a noob, I do think the fact that snoke says "its time to finish his (kylo's) training" suggests that he HAS ACTUALLY been trained, but the movie just totally fails to portray that. And he managed to kill all of his half-trained classmates, so that suggests he is at least above average... I dunno.

And you said that Luke was on dagobah for maybe a month, right? He was training with one of the greatest Jedu ever, in Grand Master Yoda... And yet Rey, with basically no teacher at all, figures it all out in a day or two. I just think its kinda ridiculous.

If I was writing the script for Rey's duel with Kylo, Kylo Ren would've won, but then not had the mental strength to kill Rey. He'd just stand there, saber in hand, fighting with himself until the ground broke between them.

That would be a better ending IMO, because it would leave a tiny glimmer of hope for Kylo in the next two movies, and would make Rey seem like less of a Mary sue. (It would also make you wonder what Kylo knows about Rey... If they are related or whatever...)
 

Brandon Rhea

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A lot of people seem to think Rey was a novice when she fought Kylo but they're not taking into account the fact that she's had to survive her whole life on Jakku, and that surviving included fights all the time. We saw one of those fights when Unkar Plutt's thugs tried to steal BB-8 and she beat them up instead. A lightsaber is just a glowing sword, it doesn't require any special power, and her fighting style was very reminiscent of how she fought with her quarterstaff (aka lots of forwarding thrusts).

She has been trained her whole life.

Luke had none of that.

Additionally, Luke's training had very little to do with combat. Yoda trained Luke in the ways of the Force, not the ways of lightsaber combat. Going back to the core essence of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the Force is spiritual. That's what Yoda taught Luke. He gave Luke the keys to become a better person in Return of the Jedi, whereas he ignored all of Yoda's lessons in The Empire Strikes Back to rush off and get his ass kicked.

The notion of needing lots of training comes from the Old Jedi Order, which was a fundamentally flawed organization - as the prequels, The Clone Wars, and Star Wars Rebels, the latter of which explained by Yoda himself, clearly shows.
 

Herrith

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A lot of people seem to think Rey was a novice when she fought Kylo but they're not taking into account the fact that she's had to survive her whole life on Jakku, and that surviving included fights all the time. We saw one of those fights when Unkar Plutt's thugs tried to steal BB-8 and she beat them up instead. A lightsaber is just a glowing sword, it doesn't require any special power, and her fighting style was very reminiscent of how she fought with her quarterstaff (aka lots of forwarding thrusts).

She has been trained her whole life.

Luke had none of that.

Additionally, Luke's training had very little to do with combat. Yoda trained Luke in the ways of the Force, not the ways of lightsaber combat. Going back to the core essence of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the Force is spiritual. That's what Yoda taught Luke. He gave Luke the keys to become a better person in Return of the Jedi, whereas he ignored all of Yoda's lessons in The Empire Strikes Back to rush off and get his ass kicked.

The notion of needing lots of training comes from the Old Jedi Order, which was a fundamentally flawed organization - as the prequels, The Clone Wars, and Star Wars Rebels, the latter of which explained by Yoda himself, clearly shows.
You know it's bad when Yoda says it's bad.
 

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A lot of people seem to think Rey was a novice when she fought Kylo but they're not taking into account the fact that she's had to survive her whole life on Jakku, and that surviving included fights all the time. We saw one of those fights when Unkar Plutt's thugs tried to steal BB-8 and she beat them up instead. A lightsaber is just a glowing sword, it doesn't require any special power, and her fighting style was very reminiscent of how she fought with her quarterstaff (aka lots of forwarding thrusts).

She has been trained her whole life.

Luke had none of that.

Additionally, Luke's training had very little to do with combat. Yoda trained Luke in the ways of the Force, not the ways of lightsaber combat. Going back to the core essence of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the Force is spiritual. That's what Yoda taught Luke. He gave Luke the keys to become a better person in Return of the Jedi, whereas he ignored all of Yoda's lessons in The Empire Strikes Back to rush off and get his ass kicked.

The notion of needing lots of training comes from the Old Jedi Order, which was a fundamentally flawed organization - as the prequels, The Clone Wars, and Star Wars Rebels, the latter of which explained by Yoda himself, clearly shows.
I agree on pretty much all of what you've said, though I'd just like to point out that I was more talking about the Force side of things, less about her saber-skills which are understandable, all things considered. I mean, she does a Jedi mind trick on a stormtrooper with no training at all (we don't really have any reference for how difficult that is, but the fact that she just decides to do it without any prior knowledge of the Force that we know of, is what i think is a little weird. yes, you could say the force guided her to do it, but i still think its a bit random). Anakin nor Luke did anything really like that, especially with zero training. That's what I was really trying to say.

I guess it could be explained, but its a bit far off for my liking at least.
 

Herrith

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I agree on pretty much all of what you've said, though I'd just like to point out that I was more talking about the Force side of things, less about her saber-skills which are understandable, all things considered. I mean, she does a Jedi mind trick on a stormtrooper with no training at all (we don't really have any reference for how difficult that is, but the fact that she just decides to do it without any prior knowledge of the Force that we know of, is what i think is a little weird. yes, you could say the force guided her to do it, but i still think its a bit random). Anakin nor Luke did anything really like that, especially with zero training. That's what I was really trying to say.

I guess it could be explained, but its a bit far off for my liking at least.
Maybe it was the spices. Must have had some Booster Blue prior to blowing up Starkiller. Uh, sorry, I mean Starkiller base.
 

Undine

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To further drive home Brandon's point about Rey surviving on her own her entire life, keep in mind that nothing about how she lived was easy. Not just the fights but when times were tough and she couldn't afford to feed herself properly, not to mention the type of work she did took a serious amount of physical athleticism. Even without the fights, which she was clearly able to win, that type of lifestyle forges a strong will and mental determination in a person to survive. As far as being physical combatants goes, I think Rey and Kylo were equals, and when it comes to the Force he was clearly the better of the two, but Rey had something Kylo never had, the will to survive, which is more powerful than any amount of marital or lightsaber training. Besides, Kylo's Force training was half-baked at best, and considering that all Force sensitives, trained or not, are more resistant to Force based attacks or influences then others, his better skilled use of the Force isn't a major factor in their duel.

Considering who his parents were, I doubt Kylo wanted for much growing up, and when he was taken in to be trained as a Jedi by Luke I highly doubt he spent much of his days uncomfortable, much less doing hard labor or starving half to death. Rey on the other hand had nothing, had no one to watch over her, no one provided for her needs or gave her comforts such as clean water or a warm bed. She's much more durable because of it and she'd have a much more conscious understanding of her limits and how to push past them to survive. It can be difficult to understand for some, but all Rey needed to do in order to win was to be shoved into the mud because once that happened her will to survive would kick in almost like a power up potion, after that Kylo got rekted because he underestimated her ability to push back.​
 

Gamov

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Kylo ISN'T a Sith. Wild right? The Sith are dead and gone, and there has been nothing to indicate that either Kylo or Snipe are Sith. As far as what's presented in the movie, he's a half trained Jedi who fell to the darkside, and is now a half trained darksider who depends on wild rage more than skill. Lacking is the cold efficiency of the Sith because, well he's not a Sith.

Semi-related to this comment, something that really bothered me about the film was how a mere 30 years had passed between the end f RotJ and TFA, and yet when Rey and Finn meet Han for the first time, they all speak as if the Empire and Jedi were all some kind of ancient... obscure history that only a handful of people knew about.

I mean, Finn worked for the First Order only a handful of scenes before that. He should know about the Empire and the Sith above anyone else - second only to Han and Leia. But nope! Let's all drool and pretend we've never heard about any of this because we've all been living under a rock in a galaxy that was dominated by an authoritarian Sith regime not 30 years ago. I mean, that would be like... post WWII Europe being magically ignorant of the Nazis in the 30 years following the end of the war. Spoiler alert though, we still teach school kids about that particularly dark period in history some 70+ years on. And why? Because you can't let lessons like that go.

But apparently JJ thinks 30 years is plenty of time for the painful memories of Palpatine's reign to just slip peacefully into obscurity.

I think Alderaan would disagree.

Also, another thing that bugged the hell out of me... Finn was the key to figuring out how to destroy Starkiller base? Okay, fine. I could have bought that... had he not admitted to his post on Starkiller base basically equating to that of a friggin' janitor.

Oh yes, we all know that janitors have intimate operational knowledge of the super secret Sith Death Machine Planet they work on. Looks like Jyn and co's sacrifice was all for naught in Rogue One. All the Rebellion needed to destroy the Death Star was one rogue custodian who mopped the floors in the Death Star gift shop. Ridiculous.
 

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Semi-related to this comment, something that really bothered me about the film was how a mere 30 years had passed between the end f RotJ and TFA, and yet when Rey and Finn meet Han for the first time, they all speak as if the Empire and Jedi were all some kind of ancient... obscure history that only a handful of people knew about.

I mean, Finn worked for the First Order only a handful of scenes before that. He should know about the Empire and the Sith above anyone else - second only to Han and Leia. But nope! Let's all drool and pretend we've never heard about any of this because we've all been living under a rock in a galaxy that was dominated by an authoritarian Sith regime not 30 years ago. I mean, that would be like... post WWII Europe being magically ignorant of the Nazis in the 30 years following the end of the war. Spoiler alert though, we still teach school kids about that particularly dark period in history some 70+ years on. And why? Because you can't let lessons like that go.

But apparently JJ thinks 30 years is plenty of time for the painful memories of Palpatine's reign to just slip peacefully into obscurity.

I think Alderaan would disagree.

Also, another thing that bugged the hell out of me... Finn was the key to figuring out how to destroy Starkiller base? Okay, fine. I could have bought that... had he not admitted to his post on Starkiller base basically equating to that of a friggin' janitor.

Oh yes, we all know that janitors have intimate operational knowledge of the super secret Sith Death Machine Planet they work on. Looks like Jyn and co's sacrifice was all for naught in Rogue One. All the Rebellion needed to destroy the Death Star was one rogue custodian who mopped the floors in the Death Star gift shop. Ridiculous.
I think they were mostly referring to the Jedi and the darkside. Remember the Jedi had basically been wiped out, and they weren't particularly prolific even before they were. 99.99999% of people in the galaxy had probably never even seen a Jedi during the height of their order. As for the darkside, there were only 2 Sith. Even during the height of their power during the Empire, Palpatine stuck to his research for the most part and left the day to day ruling of the Empire to the beurocrats, and Darth Vader was a mysterious enforcer. Nobody even knew the Sith where in charge. Palpatine hid the fact that he was a Sith and Darkside user from all but his most trusted advisors. So yes it's very reasonable to assume that people would forget about the Jedi and the Sith, as they were just stories to most people.
 

Gamov

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and Darth Vader was a mysterious enforcer. Nobody even knew the Sith where in charge.

I don't buy Darth Vader was a mysterious enforcer. His reputation was quite widely known on both sides, and given the number Imperial officers he executed with his mind it is impossible to say people can't connect the dots. I could potentially grant Palpatine keeping his true identity/affinity a secret, but certainly not Vader.

If you consider that ~20 years elapsed between the end of RotS and ANH, there were still plenty of people alive who would have lived through/fought in the Clone Wars to remember the Jedi and Separatist figures such as Dooku and Grievous. Additionally consider that the entirety of the OT spans less than a decade in length (with ~3-5 years between ANH and RotJ) and the entire plot for TFA is only removed from the Clone Wars by a factor of about 55-60 years. Still plenty of time for those events to be considered recent history in the grand scheme of galactic events, and still well within reason that there would be some people alive to offer first hand (or near first hand) accounts of those events.

I'm not saying they would all be spry 30 year olds or anything. But if Han can keep his memories from ANH to TFA, I kinda bet everyone else can too.

In summation, the idea that the Sith and Jedi would be considered "obscure" history by the time of TFA just doesn't line up. In fact, it rather seems to assume that the galaxy suffered a sudden and inexplicable onset of mass Alzheimer's cases and/or long term memory loss across trillions of sentient beings following the fall of the Empire.
 

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I don't buy Darth Vader was a mysterious enforcer. His reputation was quite widely known on both sides, and given the number Imperial officers he executed with his mind it is impossible to say people can't connect the dots. I could potentially grant Palpatine keeping his true identity/affinity a secret, but certainly not Vader.

If you consider that ~20 years elapsed between the end of RotS and ANH, there were still plenty of people alive who would have lived through/fought in the Clone Wars to remember the Jedi and Separatist figures such as Dooku and Grievous. Additionally consider that the entirety of the OT spans less than a decade in length (with ~3-5 years between ANH and RotJ) and the entire plot for TFA is only removed from the Clone Wars by a factor of about 55-60 years. Still plenty of time for those events to be considered recent history in the grand scheme of galactic events, and still well within reason that there would be some people alive to offer first hand (or near first hand) accounts of those events.

I'm not saying they would all be spry 30 year olds or anything. But if Han can keep his memories from ANH to TFA, I kinda bet everyone else can too.

In summation, the idea that the Sith and Jedi would be considered "obscure" history by the time of TFA just doesn't line up. In fact, it rather seems to assume that the galaxy suffered a sudden and inexplicable onset of mass Alzheimer's cases and/or long term memory loss across trillions of sentient beings following the fall of the Empire.
I'm going to have to disagree with you once again, especially regarding the Sith. The Sith were thought by the Jedi to have been wiped out nearly a thousand years before the clone wars. Outside of the Jedi nobody but the most niche archeologist or historians would likely know of or care about the Sith's previous existence.

Concerning Vader, he was never a public figure. Sure he might have been known of and feared and respected in the Imperial Military, but the general populace might only see him at times when the Empire brought the hammer down on suspected Jedi or Rebel activity. People would have heard of him, but even within the Imperial Military besides top military leaders, the 501st, and the crews of his own ships, likely very few of them ever physically saw him. He was the boogeyman, feared but not seen unless he was after you.

As far as the Jedi, again the majority of people would never have seen one, the wars were mostly fought by clones and droids, and the Empire did their best to brand them as traitors and wipe out every bit of information about them that they could. So no I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the majority of the galaxy would go about their lives without knowledge of the Jedi beyond the name, just like they did when the Jedi existed.

EDIT: Also the things the common people would have known about the Jedi probably didn't do them any favors. Childsnatchers and and mysterious monks. Not exactly the most popular group of people.
 

Gamov

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I'm going to have to disagree with you once again, especially regarding the Sith. The Sith were thought by the Jedi to have been wiped out nearly a thousand years before the clone wars. Outside of the Jedi nobody but the most niche archeologist or historians would likely know of or care about the Sith's previous existence.

Niche historians and archaeologists, or... leaders of the Trade Federation who were very keen on referring to their hooded mysterious benefactor as "My Lord." I don't know of many trade organizations that would just randomly call their benefactors their "Lord" without good reason. Not to mention this "Lord" sends his Apprentice "Darth Maul" to track down Padme and co. after they escape Naboo.

Nute Gunray: "My Lord, it's impossible to locate the ship. It's out of our range."

Darth Sidious: "Not for a Sith. This is my apprentice, Darth Maul. He will find your lost ship."

And

Nute Gunray: "The invasion was a success, my Lord. We are in complete control of the planet now."

Darth Sidious: "Good. I will see to it that things in the senate stay as they are. I am sending my apprentice, Darth Maul, to join you."

Nute Gunray: "Yes, my Lord."

Rune Hakko: "A Sith here?"

References: here

Ultimately, what the Jedi believed to be true was proven utterly false in the end, even after they scoffed at the judgement of Qui-Gon who actually fought Maul and thought it important enough to bring that information back to the Council. And you would think Qui-Gon of all people would know who/what a Sith is. Pretty bad when Nute Gunray had better foresight than Yoda.

And all of this doesn't even begin to take into account the events of Attack of the Clones where Dooku (as Sidious' new apprentice) rallies even more corporations - large public entities owned and operated by civilians, mind you - to join in cessation from the Republic.

Concerning Vader, he was never a public figure. Sure he might have been known of and feared and respected in the Imperial Military, but the general populace might only see him at times when the Empire brought the hammer down on suspected Jedi or Rebel activity. People would have heard of him, but even within the Imperial Military besides top military leaders, the 501st, and the crews of his own ships, likely very few of them ever physically saw him. He was the boogeyman, feared but not seen unless he was after you.

Vader's overall "publicity" is debatable. But even so, enough people would have seen him in person to know exactly who he was by name and reputation alone. And I highly doubt only the most privileged among the Imperial military were keenly aware of who Vader was exactly. Also consider how Leia seemed blatantly unphased when coming toe to toe with him after the Tantive IV was attacked and boarded. If he was that obscure and unknown, she should have been a complete mess at seeing this menacing, cybernetic... person for the first time.

As far as the Jedi, again the majority of people would never have seen one, the wars were mostly fought by clones and droids, and the Empire did their best to brand them as traitors and wipe out every bit of information about them that they could. So no I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the majority of the galaxy would go about their lives without knowledge of the Jedi beyond the name, just like they did when the Jedi existed.

Except when Anakin, a poor little slave boy on a backwater beyond the Republic's borders, knows exactly what a lightsaber is and openly tells Qui-Gon (with no small measure of confidence) that he is a Jedi. If a slave who lives thousands of lightyears outside the Republic can put 2 and 2 together, I think others living on planets where the Jedi are more prolific (Coruscant for example) would be capable of similar feats of deductive reasoning.

EDIT:

I also forgot Watto's comments towards Qui-Gon when he attempted to use a mind trick on him.

"What, do you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money."
 
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Brandon Rhea

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Leia knew who Vader was. She's a senator who kept a keen eye on the inner workings of the Empire, and the Rebellion had encountered him before. Leia =/= the general public.

Lucasfilm has explicitly said, particularly with the new canon, that Vader is not well known in the general public.
 

Gamov

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Leia knew who Vader was. She's a senator who kept a keen eye on the inner workings of the Empire, and the Rebellion had encountered him before. Leia =/= the general public.

Lucasfilm has explicitly said, particularly with the new canon, that Vader is not well known in the general public.

Any sources to back that claim by Lucasfilm?

Otherwise, Vader was a very prolific figure according to his canon entry on the wiki. Most telling is the entry on his legacy. Lifted directly from the article is this line:

"Decades after his death, Darth Vader remained a despised and controversial figure in the New Republic. When it was publicly revealed that Organa was his biological daughter, her reputation was ruined, which eventually led to her resignation from the Galactic Senate."

Now, if Vader were so obscure and not well known, why was he so hated? Furthermore, why would Leia's relation to him ruin her reputation? Surely people wouldn't have cared if it was discovered she was related to "some spooky enforcer" who worked for the Emperor. Plenty of people probably had families related to people who served the Empire. Why all the stigma for poor Leia if her father was just a scary dude in black armor only a handful of people knew about?

The reputation doesn't line up with the claims of obscurity.
 

Brandon Rhea

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Vader became well known by the time of the New Republic. Prior to that, he was not. That's something Lucasfilm talked about a lot during the run-up to Vader's appearance in Star Wars Rebels. Note that when he first encountered the Ghost crew, none of the characters knew who he was. Not even Ahsoka at the time.

http://www.starwars.com/news/interview-dave-filoni-on-star-wars-rebels-part-3

Dave Filoni: That’s another thing you battle all the time. There’s a popular thought among fans that people all know who this guy is. Why would they? I don’t think people on Coruscant really care or know that Palpatine is a Sith Lord. A lot of them wouldn’t really know what that means. Many of them would say, “Well, the trains are running on time.” Everyone’s doing well. That’s in his favor.

Vader is a known person to some, but to very few, I think. He’s known of in whispers. The Imperials know about him, but a lot of them haven’t met him. He’s not military. He’s more the fanatical wing of the Empire. One reason I believe he’s not well known is the fact that if you encounter him, you usually don’t survive.
 

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Vader became well known by the time of the New Republic. Prior to that, he was not. That's something Lucasfilm talked about a lot during the run-up to Vader's appearance in Star Wars Rebels. Note that when he first encountered the Ghost crew, none of the characters knew who he was. Not even Ahsoka at the time.

http://www.starwars.com/news/interview-dave-filoni-on-star-wars-rebels-part-3

Fair enough, I suppose. But it all still proves my initial point which sparked this discussion - why the script for TFA inexplicably treated the Jedi and Sith like "ancient" history following a mere 30 year gap in galactic events from RotJ to TFA.

Even if Vader wasn't well known during the Galactic Civil war (a point I still challenge, just for the record), the fact that his reputation in the decades after the battle of Endor was enough to ruin Leia's reputation to the point where she was force to resign the Senate, I don't see how people just magically forgot about the Sith by the time Rey and company come on the scene. It's a huge gap in continuity that is left wide open with no feasible explanation as to why. I mean, it was even mentioned that the First Order was "spawned from the Dark Side", Kylo Ren has Vader's helmet in a shrine... he was his grandfather after all.

I just don't see the logic for the Sith being magically wiped away tracking. Especially when you consider that we here on humble planet Earth have vast records relating to ancient civilizations and their cultures spanning back thousands of years. Never mind 30. If we can manage such concise record keeping with mere books and the internet, I'd rather think the hyper advanced universe of Star Wars could too.
 

Brandon Rhea

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Canonically the stories of the Jedi and the Sith aren't always that well known to everyone, but even if you don't buy into that idea then consider the primary source of the comments: Rey. (I disagree with your interpretation that Finn was acting like it was forever ago so I'll just focus on Rey.)

Rey lived on Jakku for her entire known life. She was about as far out as one could go without hitting the Unknown Regions. So civilization had nothing to do with her and she had nothing to do with civilization. She had no formal schooling. She had no access to most sources of information. But what she did have was stories that traders and other explorers shared with her. She knew who Luke Skywalker was, but she didn't know if he was real or not. She'd heard stories of the war and she knew it happened, given that she scavenged the graveyard of the final battle, but she didn't know if those stories were true. Even on Jakku, where barely anyone there was actually from there, there were conflicting accounts about what actually happened during the Battle of Jakku and why so many ships crashed into the ground.

So we see all of that through her point of view. It's the same thing we had with Luke in A New Hope. Luke had never heard of the Force before. The Jedi were basically a foreign concept to him. Yet it was only 19 years after the end of the Clone Wars. 3 years later he'd never heard of Yoda before, despite Yoda being the primary Jedi commander of the Grand Army of the Republic. So why were the stories of the Jedi and the Republic so foreign to Luke, and why were they so foreign to Rey for that matter?

Unlike the prequel trilogy, which was the story of people who were in the center of and therefore more connected to galactic politics and affairs, the original trilogy and The Force Awakens are about people who live on the fringes. Luke didn't know what the Force was. Han Solo dismissed the Jedi as a fairy tale. Rey didn't know the true history of the Empire's downfall. And all of them lived in the far corners of the galaxy, corners that were rarely touched by the events and people you wonder why they don't know about.

While I agree with the previous comments about how the Jedi and the Sith are not that well known to the general public, I think what I just described is a way for someone who does think they should be well known to nevertheless view the movies in a way that doesn't contradict those beliefs.
 
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