Walking as a woman in NYC

[TWD26]

Sorry for the double post:

But, on a serious note I think that there is a problem in society, I see feminisim as a good thing, but I also think that we need to take a good look at the masculinity and we need to change it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3exzMPT4nGI (Great 7 minute video from a Documentary that shows some great statistics and it's also a nice video everyone should see because it gives a male insight and if we want to see change I think we need to change this also.)

 

[BLADE]

Spoiler: LINKS

VIDEOS:

-VIDEO_0
--VIDEO_1
---VIDEO_2
----VIDEO_3
-----VIDEO_4
------VIDEO_5
-------VIDEO_6
--------VIDEO_7
---------VIDEO_8
----------VIDEO_9
-----------VIDEO_10
------------VIDEO_11
-------------VIDEO_12
--------------VIDEO_13
---------------VIDEO_14
----------------VIDEO_15

NEWS COLUMNS:

COLUMN_0
-COLUMN_1
--COLUMN_2
---COLUMN_3
----COLUMN_4
-----COLUMN_5
------COLUMN_6
-------COLUMN_7
--------COLUMN_8

First I should point out that if you're going to cite something, you should adduce it in situ so that it makes it easier to line up arguments. As it stands, a good half of your sources cite no data, another is simply a link to a piece of legislation, one source actively disagrees with you (and says data is underreported) and only two sources (both relying on third party data with no econometric arguments of their own) are worth arguing over.

The first is Cathy Young; she's a notorious Men's Rights Activist who has dishonestly conceded in the past that women suffer roughly two-thirds of abuse (a fact that is buried in that AEI link) whilst still trying to pretend that sexual violence somehow is gender neutral.

It is not. As an attorney, one of the organizations I work with in a pro bono fashion is a women's shelter. Rape and domestic violence is not an unknown phenomenon here, and it is exceedingly difficult to do anything about it. For one rape is reported (using the same data set that Ms. Young dishonestly did not mention) at less than a forty percent clip. That means that sixty percent of rapes are not reported at all, and using the most conservative data-set (which is considered a low-end estimate by its own authors) there are roughly half a million rapes every year. Furthemore, a wide-ranging survey looking at data on the local end --which is problematic, as different localities have different laws, including throwbacks to the old 1927 legal-bureaucratic definition of rape involving "carnal knowledge... [through vaginal penetration] (the National Academies Press survey) find nearly a million-and-a-half rapes undercounted by the FBI over a ten year period.

That means that over a ten-year period, using the data-set that Ms. Young cites and taking into consideration the lacunae that even said data concedes, 1-in-25 women will be raped. The number is even larger if you consider that there's a particular demographic (roughly 18-50) which is even more assiduously targeted, and that the real numbers --again, using the low end estimate-- is something like 1-in-15 women. Perhaps 1-in-20 making allowances for repeated victims. Over a decade. 1 in 10 over a single generation.

I have friends in law enforcement, and associate with the DAs, particularly the ADAs in rural counties here. Even when these rapes are reported, convictions are very difficult. The nature of the crime, the dearth of rape kits (New York City, the one of the richest if not the richest city in the world had nearly twenty thousand unprocessed rape kits), cultural issues (most police officers are male) make fact-finding exceedingly difficult. Only one-in-four of those reported cases will even be prosecuted (https://rainn.org/news-room/97-of-every-100-rapists-receive-no-punishment). The anguish, the actual sense of loss, the potential consequences (unintended pregnancy, internal wounds, psychological damage, etc.) is nearly incalculable and its frankly gross that we have to go over data which has been repeatedly, continually, with-a-sense-of-inverse-jouissance picked-over.)

The AEI argument is only worth mentioning for the uninitiated here. It conflates data relating to *all* violent deaths with respect to men, and mostly sexual assaults with women ending in death. That this is dishonest goes largely without saying.

You initially thought me to be subhuman trash because I didn't follow your same ideals. Seriously, what good is ganging up on an individual through nasty remarks and the like if they don't share your views? That is dispicable nature, and you're no better than mainstream tumblr feminists, the WBC, the islamic extremists.

Rape culture does not exist. Our society does not condone rape.

As I noted, only one in thirty rapists are convicted. That means more women are sexually assaulted proportionally than rapists are convicted. Even just a dispassionate recitation of the facts suggests a normative judgment here --and one which does not speak to our better angels.

Shit, even rape inmates are given their own little cell because they are afraid of what their fellow inmates will do to them. It does not exist.

Data? Facts? Etc. At what rate do rapists experience victimization in prison? Also, is rape in prison a real phenomenon (it is?) Is rape wielded as a type of weapon in prison (ditto). Does this not suggest that without a feminized outlet, this wider culture makes victims of men, just as it does in a wider context (I do not suffer as you do if I have my boot on your neck, but I am diminished nonetheless.

You seem to misunderstand what rape culture is. It targets women, but it affects us all.

Sexual objectification: Regardless of how you want to go about it, EVERYBODY objectifies. If a man/woman was presented two men/women with mirroring personalities, but one being sexually stunning and the other only somewhat appealing, you can bet the physically appealing one would be chosen everytime. That is just human nature and it is hardwired into our skulls. Objectification is a gateway to determining, on a basic and instinctual level, on who is a viable mate. There is nothing wrong with objectification, and to think so is to separate us from our human nature. If I find you sexy, I'm going to find you sexy, and may very well masturbate to the thought of you. At the same time, if a woman finds me sexy, she's going to find me sexy, and may very well masturbate to the thought of me. That is human nature, and to say otherwise is, really, a stupid ****ing thing to believe.

This argument is neither supported by any evidence nor is it relevant to the topic of broadly documented sexual assault.

Furthermore, I believe that to try and de-sexualize men and women is just wrong. That is my very honest belief. We shouldn't have "beauty standards," per se, but we shouldn't be so afraid of the miniscule few that we imprison the thoughts and actions of the many just to keep those few in check. Humankind will always have the lowlifes and the degenerates who will force their way into anything, be it gaining money, sex, drugs, cars... whatever! That sentence brings to mind what one of my very sexually active female friends said to me over facebook:

"I love it when I get complimented on my looks. Just because one man raped me does not mean the man who called me "sweet cheeks" is going to rape me, nor the guy who looks me up and down will either. Just as long as there's no touching, I'm completely fine with it. Not to mention the constant boost of confidence it brings me."

See above. I won't even touch the notion that there's a specific area in which those kind of people live where sexual assault is more common (well-heeled Wall Street is a hotbed, for example.)

If we want to talk about which gender is genuinely objectified in all respects, I will argue with you day and night that men are societies objects that can be thrown in the trash once his usefulness has dried up.

Both genders are objectified and subject to televisual, Dyonisian archetypes and pressures. The difference is that women experience this type of violence and pressure at a much higher rate (see above) whilst wielding far less power --men have more wealth, more seats in legislatures, lead more companies, have more guns, etc.

Sexual harassment: I agree it is a big issue, but it's not the only issue, and not one that only women face. For me to be expected to hold MORE compassion for a woman than a man, purely because of statistics, is not human, and I refuse to put women on a pedestal higher than men; I hold compassion for everyone equally.

This is, of course, nonsense. It diminishes men in no single way to recognize that the female experience is, in many ways, more difficult.

Personal accounts from men and boys from multiple chat rooms:

-"Called a ****** on a daily basis for wearing spikey hair and goth clothes," - Anonymous. Clearly attacking the (then) teenage boy's sexuality.

-"Littledick fat****!" - Attacking a (then) teenage boy's capability at sex. Clearly an unwanted sexual remark... sexual harassment/humiliation.

-"Sonny, you need to work those muscles of you want to attract a woman." - referring to advice given from his grandmother. Clearly, how his body looked was more important than his personality. Whether he is of a preferable personality is unknown.

-"Suck it up, buttercup! No girl wants to **** you if you're going to act like that!"

-"I had a woman at my old desk job constantly sexually harass me. I am married, and she knew it, but she got satisfaction from having the power to openly grope me with zero recompense." - Former co-worker.

Just a handful of responses I was given. Anonymity will remain.

And?

These are horrible things, but I'm not sure how it disproves a single thing noted here.

With that said, the many videos and news pages I've posted entail sexual harassment and assault has been on a decline from years ago, with the only thing keeping numbers up are several repeat offenses reported on one person, from one person. Indeed, those very same statistics have been, basically, knocked down as very inaccurate.

No. They have not.

Feminists know this, but they still need to find something to play their victim, and thereby the prosecution, complex on. What more than on the very streets of the ghetto? You don't mean that the very same streets that carry the same degenerates who would kill you for no reason, break into your car for that radio and speakers, mug you for your purse or wallet, are supposed to have the common decency to respect you because you're a woman?

I've noted before that sexism is not a race-issue. Also, I grew up in the ghetto. We're really not that bad, you know. Mostly you get people talking about the Broncos game and then we'd go to Tom's for meatloaf. It's very interesting that on the one hand you dismiss sexism as a fringe issue, and then paint areas where black and brown folk live as hotbeds of violence where someone will skull**** you because something something rap jeans.

That's funny shit, I tell you, and those same degenerates WILL rape you if they could get away with it, male or female. If feminism is running out of so many ideas that they have to go after the slums, then they've already accomplished what they set out to do.

Nor is it a class issue. Said the Marxist. The Marxist, dude.

Until Emma gave her speech to the UN, was feminism REALLY going to go after improving the rights of ACTUAL oppressed women of other countries, or actually championing the issues of men?

There are real issues with the foreign aid industry (and yes, it is an industry) but feminism in the United States has given women reproductive freedom (under assault), as well as the vote, equal pay (at least on some state levels), etc. Things have improved in a lot of ways (and sadly regressed in others), but yes. Feminism is a positive social good. I am proud to associate with and be a feminist.

Shit, the vast majority of muslim women and chinese women don't want to give up their cozy lifestyle for something of immense stress.

Not only irrelevant, but also quite insulting and weird considering the histories there (theocratic limits on education; female infanticide.)

If you really think about it, mainstream media wants to keep it going here inside progressive countries, and countries on the road to progressivness, because it sells. These same people will buy T-shirts. They will buy videos. They will buy posters and cardboard signs and... ****, I can go on and on.

"I fought the war for abortion rights and all I got was this lousy t-shirt?"

I am truly sorry for those who have dealt with sexual assault, but you are on such a small scale that, compared to other women as a whole, your demands REALLY don't have much of a say, and a majority of women see a lot of feminists as whiny bitches trying to mess with a life that they feel is otherwise VERY GOOD for a woman.

I'm not going to argue with you on this point because I am a man and not nearly arrogant enough to say I speak for women. I just find it interesting that pretty much every single woman on this topic has disagreed with you.

*Shrugs*

Such are the travails of the crusader against misandry, one supposes.

 

[Kaeb]

So, now that we've both tackled his most recent misogynist tirade, what do we do while we wait for him to come back?

 

[TWD26]

I just found a hidden gem that people should take a look at if they are interested in domestic violence:

Jackson Katz: Violence against Women-it's a men's issue

 

[Kaeb]

[YOUTUBE]1lUn7BVigYs[/YOUTUBE]​

I listened to this seven times today and it sounded different every single time.

What do we usually do in between topics? Bitch about Mass Effect or something?

 

[Bee]

Well, Dragon Age: Inquisition is coming out. We could complain about that.

 

[Kaeb]

prolly gon be shit

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Let's not pile on. Give him a chance to respond.

 

[Dmitri]

It's somewhat disappointing that after thousands of years of civilization women are still viewed as victims. That, or they're demonized. In the case of Medusa, quite literally. In school, whenever I heard of the Medusa story, I heard how she pissed off some goddess (I want to say Athena but I feel like I might be wrong) and was turned into a gorgon. Mostly all stories portray her as a villain. True, she's villainous in her later years, but her origins (at least in Ovid's version) still reveal she was a victim and blamed. Medusa was a virgin priestess for that goddess I mentioned earlier. Her beauty was marveled by many. Poseidon raped her. For losing her innocence and purity, she was punished for being raped, as because Poseidon was a man, it was thought normal for him to do what he did. Even then women were portrayed as being the villain behind a rape case, rather than victim. Though while modern day stories aren't turned into literal demons, sometimes the media will portray them as deviants and lower than human, as if they tempted the man, and that the man did what any man would have done. It's an insult to both men and women, in my opinion.

Just thought I'd put some input. Nothing as detailed as Kaeb and Prospero, and a bit sidetracked, but meh, I'll put it. I think what needs done is both changing our responses to rape and not looking at what the woman did wrong.

This discussion is out of my league, so I'll leave now.

 

[Derath Quinton]

Thank you Prospero for your very rewarding knowledge on the matter with supporting facts. I still do not believe that a "Rape Culture" exists, and feel it should be changed to something along the lines of a "blindly see" culture, as many issues are seen but given a blind eye to so as to be forgotten.

I DO have personality disorders, probably half of which aren't even diagnosed properly because I'm too poor to get myself checked out, and none of which should be made fun of. They lead me to play dirty mind tricks, and blink in and out with my emotions at a whim. But, when it's all said and done, I will take the bullet for a complete stranger if I can't figure a way to manipulate the perpetrator, and if only I haven't already pulled my own gun on him/her.

Again, my previous post(s), so filled with misled conviction, purpose, arbitrary links, little actual information and quarter-truths, finally brought about two very knowledgeable responses. It was on purpose. To draw the "inner fire," so to speak. I am finally content, and rest my mind game aside. My mind is expanded, but I still do not agree 100%. That is quite alright, though, as nobody can be forced to agree or follow anything. Unless you're a dictator, haha.

I want to assure that I am no misogynist, and knew about TheAmazingAtheist, and that he would instill a strong reaction to. I've abhorred the man's personality for a while now.

On another note, I love all people equally despite their flaws, and gender is just a mask to hide behind. Apologies for the context in which I used "objectification," indeed the very word itself. What I meant to convey, as a replacement, is beauty of the body... sexiness. I believe sexuality should be open, and have seen things in regard to de-sexualizing through censorship. Figured, by and large, it was part of the topic as a whole that needed to be shared. Needless to say, I do not go out and find a sexually appealing woman, and masturbate to the thought of her, in the shower. I have her on speed-dial for pure, unadulterated, consensual sex instead. (Always use protection, kids.)

In regards to sexual harassment/assault, I deeply challenge your belief system. It is just as heavy a crime to commit against unwilling men and boys. That's what I wished to convey, Kaeb. To make fun of their misfortune, while at the same time dumping all your sympathy on a woman or girl who receives the same treatment, is the worst side of this ideology that I don't agree with. I'm over here saying we shouldn't favor one gender over the other, as is always portrayed as women expected to receive support first. We should have a genderless stance for caring for these individuals so that both parties benefit from the system at the same time. Of course, as math would indicate, men would predictably benefit quicker, but that is not what I see. I see a benefit lacking of sexism, which is a true road onto gender equality.

You also insult me for not playing on a human concept, but tell me to forget about another. Let me clarify for you so as to knock you down your high horse. If 1000 women AND 100 men, "are raped every week of the year," my compassion and sympathy would encompass all of them, with none favoring the other, as long as the rape is all I know. Same sympathy for each individual human being. I will not be drawn into gender favoritism as that is the root of sexism, and as long as that permeates our society, true gender equality will not be achieved.

Get the **** off this forum with that shit you despicable ****.

I will still frequent the site because **** you, I got a homeworld to save.

I take my leave of this topic, and respectfully ask that any flaming or insults, as per site rules, be left at the door. Obviously several pages of it has not deterred my set of beliefs, so please, spare yourself.

 

[Miz]

I was reading about subreddits that had gone to shit, and one of them was r/struggle******g (formerly called r/rape) where one of the mods flat out condones rape.

I think there is a culture that needs to be addressed.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

 

[jpchewy01]

I think it's important to note that when talking about "actual oppressed women" in foreign countries (read: MUSLIM DEVILS), we shouldn't engage in cultural imperialism. It's important to not only educate ourselves about the actual situation on the ground in these areas and stand in solidarity with the women (and men) in these countries who are working to change their own systems (and these people do actually exist). What we shouldn't do is attempt to "save" people like Muslim women from "oppressive" hijabs.

 

[Kaeb]

@Quinton : So all of the points on which you were proven wrong, you're claiming you knew were wrong all along because you like to play mind games with people?

....what?

And your continued misunderstanding of feminism and you're continuined confusion with muddling it in with an array of other topics clearly shows that you're not intellectually equipped to have this conversation, you'd rather play mind games and say "but what about men?" as we discuss the plight of women.

Quentin, you're a waste of everyone's time, please leave.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Quentin, you're a waste of everyone's time, please leave.

His admission of "possible mental issues" is a bit problematic since the most common arguments were sociopathy.

Seriously, Quntin, get help.

It seriously concerns me that a person like this gets to breath my air and walk around unfettered.

EDIT: I know you SAID you weren't rereading this thread after "leaving" it, but seriously. In regards to your "100 women and 10 men" argument look at it like this. There is a forest fire and a garden that is also ablaze. You obviously need to treat the forest fire at first. It is more destructive nd obviously the more costly endeavor. the garden is regrettable, but treating both fires as "equal" is ultimately detrimental.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

This is starting to cross the line into outright flaming.

Lock.