Trunk space OOC

Wit

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@Darasuum
How exactly is Kai's leg moving to go with the kick?

Can't imagine any way in which a knee can go with a kick unless it's somehow taking the blow in the back of the knee, any other direction the impact makes the knee move in a direction it can't move and make it break.

From the front, knee bends backwards and breaks. From the side, knee pops sidewards and breaks. So finding it hard to visualize what you're doing, just looking for a clearer picture.
 

Darasuum

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This confusion is probably borne from me not asking @Phoenix what kind of kick he was doing. The leg raises and so his ankle would be at the height of his knee actually since Kai doesn't want to get hit in the knee. But since that's at the end of the limb that wouldn't be stuck in place. The foot would move (awkardly) rather than stay in place and break. But I figured he would probably go for a more worthwhile kick and had his foot land on more of the side-turned thigh and maybe some of his lower leg. I guess if Talak did a different kick than what I'm imagining then Kai would do something different too so I'm to blame for not asking first

304689812e84b92a447d951d039e2081.jpg
 

KinkyPrawn

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@Wit I'm gonna have to challenge that AH on Arden as much as I love the thought of going with it. But the thread you linked is completely a different situation. That was just a use of the wrong gear in the wrong situation. This is a jetpack in combat mode pushing against a force push.

I'll link this dumpster fire and accompanying ooc of greater magnitude where we had a very similar argument over the use of the force against a jetpack in combat mode. (pardon the mess)

As argued in that ooc, combat mode is for horizontal movement, not vertical. So him activating it would push against the force push thrown at him. So saying that the jetpack would launch him straight up while in combat mode wouldn't be plausible.
 

Wit

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@Wit I'm gonna have to challenge that AH on Arden as much as I love the thought of going with it. But the thread you linked is completely a different situation. That was just a use of the wrong gear in the wrong situation. This is a jetpack in combat mode pushing against a force push.

I'll link this dumpster fire and accompanying ooc of greater magnitude where we had a very similar argument over the use of the force against a jetpack in combat mode. (pardon the mess)

As argued in that ooc, combat mode is for horizontal movement, not vertical. So him activating it would push against the force push thrown at him. So saying that the jetpack would launch him straight up while in combat mode wouldn't be plausible.
Which OOC post specifically says that combat mode is horizontal? And which IC post as well, wanna read up on this before responding.

Edit: all I see is Dara mention that combat mode means horizontal, no admin ruling stating that. That could just as easily have been an incorrect interpretation. Was there an admin ruling stating so? And was it situational?
 

KinkyPrawn

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Which OOC post specifically says that combat mode is horizontal? And which IC post as well, wanna read up on this before responding.

Edit: all I see is Dara mention that combat mode means horizontal, no admin ruling stating that. That could just as easily have been an incorrect interpretation. Was there an admin ruling stating so? And was it situational?
Sorry, I didn't want to drop people smack bang in the middle of the discussion, it's a few posts later. And yeah it wasn't ruled but the fact that the discussion/argument for yeeting Dara into the roof was dropped prolly carries some weight.

And I wouldn't say it was situational, at least not majorly to the poiunt where it's invalid. Sabrina wanted to pull Dara's dude into the roof while his jetpack was in combat mode(tho her argument about it was less than stellar) but that was fought against being possible, both due to Burkhart's size as well as the fact that his jetpack was in combat mode.

This is a very similar situation, only instead of an upwards force yoink it's a push backwards. But the jetpack's principle stays the same. Arden's jetpack is in combat mode and he activated it to work against the push. So flying up into the ceiling to moistly break his neck wouldn't be possible.
 

Wit

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I went through that OOC and it's only the participants discussing the usage of the Jetpack. The burst mode == horizontal is just the interpretation of the participants and was dropped by another participant. There was no admin ruling. Just because Dara told Sabrina it was horizontal, doesn't make it horizontal.

From the write-up:
"Jet packs are back mounted units used by elite troops increase their mobility on the battlefield. The jet pack's maximum speed is 50 kph and it carries fuel for up to five minutes of continuous flight (flight mode), but can also be fired in short bursts triggered by jumping (combat mode). The wearer can control the system to switch between modes and/or disengage it from their armor via wrist controls. These packs are cumbersome, adding an additional 8kg for the average human (larger individuals will have heavier jet packs to support their weight). While the fuel is stable enough not to explode, direct hits from weapons can trigger the system inadvertently, after which it is rendered useless."

So what it states is that it can be fired in bursts, not that it provides horizontal thrust. The thrust is always the same, in the opposite direction to where the jetpack is pointing. If the jetpack's thrust is pointing down when you jump it will push up, if you're lying flat on the ground then it will push you horizontally along the ground. No where does it say burst = horizontal.

Even earlier in this thread you had a post where you wrote:
"When Xath came down towards him, Arden instinctively jumped up, his jetpack carrying him briefly into the air and landing him a few steps back, out of Xath's range."

The jetpack would just have made you jump higher, not move backwards. What did you do different there as opposed to now? In that post you jump and magically move backwards, now you jump and magically move forwards, is the jetpack packed with some AI that knows which way to move you? Both cases would have the same result, you move up. That post should also have been an autohit imo but as the participants did not know you were using it wrong it wasn't brought up.

I am sorry but your counter arguments are insufficient and I stand by my post.

@KinkyPrawn @Darasuum @DarkSaber (so that you know for the future as one of your attacks should have hit)
 

KinkyPrawn

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I went through that OOC and it's only the participants discussing the usage of the Jetpack. The burst mode == horizontal is just the interpretation of the participants and was dropped by another participant. There was no admin ruling. Just because Dara told Sabrina it was horizontal, doesn't make it horizontal.

From the write-up:
"Jet packs are back mounted units used by elite troops increase their mobility on the battlefield. The jet pack's maximum speed is 50 kph and it carries fuel for up to five minutes of continuous flight (flight mode), but can also be fired in short bursts triggered by jumping (combat mode). The wearer can control the system to switch between modes and/or disengage it from their armor via wrist controls. These packs are cumbersome, adding an additional 8kg for the average human (larger individuals will have heavier jet packs to support their weight). While the fuel is stable enough not to explode, direct hits from weapons can trigger the system inadvertently, after which it is rendered useless."

So what it states is that it can be fired in bursts, not that it provides horizontal thrust. The thrust is always the same, in the opposite direction to where the jetpack is pointing. If the jetpack's thrust is pointing down when you jump it will push up, if you're lying flat on the ground then it will push you horizontally along the ground. No where does it say burst = horizontal.

Even earlier in this thread you had a post where you wrote:
"When Xath came down towards him, Arden instinctively jumped up, his jetpack carrying him briefly into the air and landing him a few steps back, out of Xath's range."

The jetpack would just have made you jump higher, not move backwards. What did you do different there as opposed to now? In that post you jump and magically move backwards, now you jump and magically move forwards, is the jetpack packed with some AI that knows which way to move you? Both cases would have the same result, you move up. That post should also have been an autohit imo but as the participants did not know you were using it wrong it wasn't brought up.

I am sorry but your counter arguments are insufficient and I stand by my post.

@KinkyPrawn @Darasuum @DarkSaber (so that you know for the future as one of your attacks should have hit)
Well in my previous post Arden jumped backwards in order to make room. Now he's using the jetpack to blast forward to counter the force push. That's what changed between that post and now. We also see in all source material from jetpacks that they got some funky projectors for the flames that are angled weirdly, most likely for situations like this in order to maintain stability. We also see a mando literally using it in short bursts by moving around in order to avoid a punch then move back in to punch another mando. I forget the episode but it's in Season 5 from Clone Wars.

But alas, I don't wanna get into another battle between stubborn mules over who's right in an ooc. So I'm willing to roll with the autohit.
 

Wit

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Well in my previous post Arden jumped backwards in order to make room. Now he's using the jetpack to blast forward to counter the force push. That's what changed between that post and now. We also see in all source material from jetpacks that they got some funky projectors for the flames that are angled weirdly, most likely for situations like this in order to maintain stability. We also see a mando literally using it in short bursts by moving around in order to avoid a punch then move back in to punch another mando. I forget the episode but it's in Season 5 from Clone Wars.

But alas, I don't wanna get into another battle between stubborn mules over who's right in an ooc. So I'm willing to roll with the autohit.
The canon examples you're stating involves the person jumping backwards and using the burst to give them air, and then jumping ahead again with the burst again giving a boost. The direction always comes from their jump. In your post you just jump upwards, unless you had said "Arden jumps backwards and activates a burst", you would just go up. The jetpack always only provides upward thrust, forwards backwards sideways momentum always comes from your feet. Read your posts and in the first one you simply say "he jumped up". There was no backward mention, the jetpack was the only thing that made you go backwards. And that is not how they work.

Either way, I guess we can move on. I'll ask Phoe and Sree to post.
 

KinkyPrawn

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The canon examples you're stating involves the person jumping backwards and using the burst to give them air, and then jumping ahead again with the burst again giving a boost. The direction always comes from their jump. In your post you just jump upwards, unless you had said "Arden jumps backwards and activates a burst", you would just go up. The jetpack always only provides upward thrust, forwards backwards sideways momentum always comes from your feet. Read your posts and in the first one you simply say "he jumped up". There was no backward mention, the jetpack was the only thing that made you go backwards. And that is not how they work.

Either way, I guess we can move on. I'll ask Phoe and Sree to post.
Sorry to keep arguing like a pair of stubborn mules, but I'm gonna have to argue over the AH all over again.

For some reason the Jedi girl tried to send a push his way, but Arden had been watching them the whole time. So when Arden saw her hand raise towards him, he smacked his vambrace against his leg to activate his jetpack. As he was sent flying back, his jetpack immediately pushed him forward to combat the push, causing him to simply skid back a meter or two and turned slightly to his right, completely avoiding smacking into the wall behind him.
According to this, Arden didn't jump. He activated manually. And given he was sent flying via force push before activating I think it's safe to say he wasn't standing upright anymore by the time he smacked his vambrace.

I think it's more fair to say he would be sent flying backwards instead of upwards. So instead of being paralyzed, Vin's push would just be successful in sending him into the wall and daze him.
 

Wit

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Sorry to keep arguing like a pair of stubborn mules, but I'm gonna have to argue over the AH all over again.


According to this, Arden didn't jump. He activated manually. And given he was sent flying via force push before activating I think it's safe to say he wasn't standing upright anymore by the time he smacked his vambrace.

I think it's more fair to say he would be sent flying backwards instead of upwards. So instead of being paralyzed, Vin's push would just be successful in sending him into the wall and daze him.
I actually cover that in my post:

"He flew up, her push would have tried to add some backwards momentum but the sudden thrust sending him upwards was so sudden and so much more that he was sent upwards and slammed headfirst into the ceiling almost instantly. "

The push is there, but as Force attacks aren't instantaneous and you state in your post that you start reacting the moment Vin starts raising her hand:

"So when Arden saw her hand raise towards him, he smacked his vambrace against his leg to activate his jetpack"

The upward thrust is a sudden upward push which would still send him flying up into the air. I'm sorry I clubbed the two jetpack uses together as jumps. The point I was making was that in both cases the only momentum the jetpack would provide is upwards.
 

Wit

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I think it's more fair to say he would be sent flying backwards instead of upwards. So instead of being paralyzed, Vin's push would just be successful in sending him into the wall and daze him.
You know what, in the spirit of expediency I will roll with this and edit accordingly.
 
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