ANNOUNCEMENT: Explanation

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DeathToll

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Hello my fellow Imperial Knights. Since this was made common knowledge before I even had a chance to inform you of my plans and what that means, I am now going to explain the facts.

First, since you all already know what this is about, let me state the two major key points.

1) This would NOT make the IKs Jedi Knights. We would remain Imperial Knights with our own beliefs, etc.

2) When acting independently, we would be under our own command. When part of the overall Alliance, we would fly under the Alliance flag. That means we would be semi-autonomous and semi-in the Alliance, depending on the situations.

.

We just sustained a major assault from the Sith. We would be changing to an Indie Faction because of this. That is unavoidable and was not my decision. And I had intended to use our alliances for support, just as we have been doing.

I had planned to offer a different choice than simply an Indie Faction. That choice would have been a Jedi Sub-Faction. This would change NOTHING. Our Faction Boards would be copied and pasted under theirs, but nothing would change. Our command structure, titles, philospophy, tenets, rules, goals, and all that we are individually would not change.

We would be a mobile group, a secretive force, the Imperial Knights. Members who left the Jedi and joined the Imperial Knights would not be rejoining the Jedi. We have had an alliance with the Jedi for a while now, that is all this is doing; but stronger. I would have remained the Knight-Commander and Syn would have been the Seneschal; still.

Example of how this changes nothing: If we were to go on a joint Jedi mission a week ago before the Sith attack, then we would have to cooperate with the Jedi leadership while on that mission. If we were to go on one of our own missions a week ago, we would have to obey our own leadership and follow the rules and goals for that mission. THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE.

Now that I have stated a general explanation of what I had planned, I WOULD like to hear from you because I had planned on telling all of you when I was permitted to do so. Please post your questions and concerns and I will answer them.

Thank you.
 

Keinushi

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The Jedi have always been the least interesting part of whatever their in. The imp knights had a certain character and class I never encountered in the jedi.

I say this is a perfect time to just let the jedi die. Let this be a war purely between the imp knights and the sith.

I know my character is only remaining in the imp knights because she is afraid she will be killed if she trys to leave. if it is revealed that the imp knights are so weak as to ally themselves with the failing jedi, she will walk out instantly.

So yeah, I am against this in every meaning of the word. And if this goes through, my character will leave.

if you want to join them, do it. but don't drag us down with you. leave the imp knights seperate, cause honestly, no imperial would ever willingly work for the alliance.
 

Syn

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We survived as an indie faction before when the chips were really down. It was you, me and Xinn as the only knights. Then Weiss took over and yes he took getting used too and yes I did tear him down but he had ideas that didn't work for the faction and scrapped them... Then we started to get along. I suffer no illusion that we have been devastated by the attacks but running to hide in the jedi's skirts when they are in just as bad shape if not worse is not the answer.
 

Keinushi

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btw, don't we have a bloody fleet? so we need to train up some new forces, bi whoop. we have a fleet!
 

Allu'rah Danan

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The Imperial Knights started as an official Indie faction. Would changing back to one really be such a setback for us? I am not a huge fan of the idea of being a Jedi sub-faction. I know technically the Knights are still different from the Jedi, but still.

The way I always saw the Imperial Knights, and the Guardsmen, is that they are Imperials fighting for Imperial liberty. The Sith would label them as traitors, but the Empire before the Sith would still label them as faithful, even as heroes. Merging with the Jedi and Alliance feels a bit more like treason. It's one thing for the enemy of your enemy to be your ally, but actually joining with the Alliance is a whole different ball game.

I know you are going to do whatever you're going to do. But I'm not terribly fond of the idea of merging with the Jedi, even if we will still be mostly distinct from them. And what about the Imperial Guardsmen? What will become of them?
 

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We have a small fleet the empire has a massive one, but we don't have to face them in direct ship to ship combat. We can be sneaky.
 

DeathToll

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The Jedi have always been the least interesting part of whatever their in. The imp knights had a certain character and class I never encountered in the jedi.

We would keep that character and class. Explain to me how we would loose that? We wouldn't.

Keinushi said:
I say this is a perfect time to just let the jedi die. Let this be a war purely between the imp knights and the sith.

The Jedi aren't dying, we are. The Sith have just taken out half of our numbers. The Jedi are not as wounded. The Jedi have such a greater number than we do. They always have, and now it is even more drastic. The Sith will utterly destroy us with a rediculously exponencial difference in number to our own. We would be doing the exact same attacks that we would either as an Indie Faction or as this Sub-Faction. But we would be able to actually make a dent by doing this. We would not make a mark as an Indie Faction.

Keinushi said:
I know my character is only remaining in the imp knights because she is afraid she will be killed if she trys to leave. if it is revealed that the imp knights are so weak as to ally themselves with the failing jedi, she will walk out instantly.

Weak? The Jedi are fighting the Sith. We have not fought the Sith in the slightest since our creation. I have tried to change this since the beginning, tried to take part in the first skirmish that died due to others being innactive. We have not attacked the Sith -ever-. This is what I want to do, attack the Sith. But if we do this without the Jedi's help, we will be exterminated.

We will still attempt to attack the Sith as I have been planning to do with those of you who know who you are. There were even more ways of doing this that I had planned. I want us to be involved in the site's story arc. I want there to be an interesting story arc for this site. Let's make that happen.

Keinushi said:
So yeah, I am against this in every meaning of the word. And if this goes through, my character will leave.

if you want to join them, do it. but don't drag us down with you. leave the imp knights seperate, cause honestly, no imperial would ever willingly work for the alliance.

We have been working with the GA and the NJO. What will change, I ask you? You protest, but I would like to see facts and details that support this fear so we can talk it out. I'd like you all to understand that nothing would change if this happened.
 

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The Jedi and GA are no better then the Sith and the Empire in regards to being power hungry, and anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint is put under the proverbial boot, they actively Exile their own members for not following the code 100% and turn their backs on alliances that they've made, yes we were attacked, where were the Jedi while we were being attacked, are you telling me no Imperial Knight had a chance to send a distress call and ask for assistance from their allies?

Sorry i don't like the Jedi I have never Liked the Jedi and want nothing to do with the Jedi, if you wish to join the Jedi by all means join the Jedi, I'm washing my hands of this and going back to being a pirate.

Put a bounty on my head for betraying the knights if you must but I think in turn one should be placed on your head for betraying us to the Jedi like this, peace out.

and Good day.
 

Keinushi

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We would keep that character and class. Explain to me how we would loose that? We wouldn't.

we would, we'd be bowing to them. its the principle of the thing.


The Jedi aren't dying, we are. The Sith have just taken out half of our numbers. The Jedi are not as wounded. The Jedi have such a greater number than we do. They always have, and now it is even more drastic. The Sith will utterly destroy us with a rediculously exponencial difference in number to our own. We would be doing the exact same attacks that we would either as an Indie Faction or as this Sub-Faction. But we would be able to actually make a dent by doing this. We would not make a mark as an Indie Faction.

How would we not make a dent as an indie faction? And who cares if we make a dent or not, I've been having fun just working within the order, gather members and research.


Weak? The Jedi are fighting the Sith. We have not fought the Sith in the slightest since our creation. I have tried to change this since the beginning, tried to take part in the first skirmish that died due to others being innactive. We have not attacked the Sith -ever-. This is what I want to do, attack the Sith. But if we do this without the Jedi's help, we will be exterminated.

don't care, want the sith to win anyways

We will still attempt to attack the Sith as I have been planning to do with those of you who know who you are. There were even more ways of doing this that I had planned. I want us to be involved in the site's story arc. I want there to be an interesting story arc for this site. Let's make that happen.

I have no arguement for this as I always ignore the overall story and concentrate on fun characters.

We have been working with the GA and the NJO. What will change, I ask you? You protest, but I would like to see facts and details that support this fear so we can talk it out. I'd like you all to understand that nothing would change if this happened.

Its the principle of the matter. Its the reason the empire never joined the allaince, even after becomeing allies. They had their pride. They were a seperate people and proud. However this is something you don't seem to understand.
 

DeathToll

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btw, don't we have a bloody fleet? so we need to train up some new forces, bi whoop. we have a fleet!

Our fleet would not stand a chance against the Empires. We don't have enough people to even use this fleet. We have more ships than we do PCs. The droid controlled AI was our answer to this. I understand that more than anyone. But it would not make a difference.

The Imperial Knights started as an official Indie faction. Would changing back to one really be such a setback for us? I am not a huge fan of the idea of being a Jedi sub-faction. I know technically the Knights are still different from the Jedi, but still.

The way I always saw the Imperial Knights, and the Guardsmen, is that they are Imperials fighting for Imperial liberty. The Sith would label them as traitors, but the Empire before the Sith would still label them as faithful, even as heroes. Merging with the Jedi and Alliance feels a bit more like treason. It's one thing for the enemy of your enemy to be your ally, but actually joining with the Alliance is a whole different ball game.

I know you are going to do whatever you're going to do. But I'm not terribly fond of the idea of merging with the Jedi, even if we will still be mostly distinct from them. And what about the Imperial Guardsmen? What will become of them?

By doing this we would still remain an Indie Faction with the official title as a Sub-Faction. It'd be the same thing, but with the Jedi's official support.

Before the Sith took the Empire from us, that is before this timeline started, the Imperial Knights with the Empire were allied with the Jedi. That is the truth of it. We worked together to maintain order. That was our duty. We still fight for the change of the Empire back to 'our' Empire. That does not change. I have roleplayed with Imperial agents and they do not care about who leads them. They are evil. That is fact. We have already been labeled as traitors by the Empire and if we ever retook control of the Empire that fact would remain, we would change it, and we would become what we once were. We've always been allied with the Jedi in one way or another.

The NJO already has the GA. They don't need more soldiers under their name. We would be exactly the same in a seperate unit or branch but fighting along side them. Don't think for a second that our ranks would be mixing with theirs. That is simply not true. We would be a seperate supporter of the goal that both we and the Jedi share: the defeat of this current Empire.

We have a small fleet the empire has a massive one, but we don't have to face them in direct ship to ship combat. We can be sneaky.

Being sneaky was ALWAYS my plan and has nothing to do with this because that would be the case regardless. We have not been growing towards any sneakyness except for what I have already been doing in the rp. That is fact. All others have been trying to ready ourselves for a fleet to fleet or soldier to soldier battle. That will not work. We'd be outnumbered and outgunned and outteched and we'd loose.
 

Mars

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The Jedi and GA are no better then the Sith and the Empire in regards to being power hungry, and anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint is put under the proverbial boot, they actively Exile their own members for not following the code 100% and turn their backs on alliances that they've made, yes we were attacked, where were the Jedi while we were being attacked, are you telling me no Imperial Knight had a chance to send a distress call and ask for assistance from their allies?

Sorry i don't like the Jedi I have never Liked the Jedi and want nothing to do with the Jedi, if you wish to join the Jedi by all means join the Jedi, I'm washing my hands of this and going back to being a pirate.

Put a bounty on my head for betraying the knights if you must but I think in turn one should be placed on your head for betraying us to the Jedi like this, peace out.

and Good day.

You're an idiot and a fool if you think the ImpKnights have ANY chance of fighting the Empire in their current state. We've roflstomped the everloving shit out of the Jedi who, despite your absurd claims, prevent more of a threat than the current pitiful mess of a faction the ImpKnights are or probably ever will if things continue. None of this is Deathtoll's fault either.

As a whole, you guys have done literally nothing to matter in the scheme of things. I can honestly say that at no point in Sith planning do we ever say "Oh but the ImpKnights might mess with that," it's more along the lines of "Oh please let them be there so we can stomp those fools into oblivion."

Say what you will about your own plans, but honestly the ImpKnights need this right now, and if you leave them for it they're better off.

Also, if I hear one more person bitch about the Jedi expelling a SITH PUREBLOOD I'm gonna cry. It's seriously pathetic that you guys think that should even be allowed in the first place, let alone complain and cry about it.

Man up, admit this needs to happen and give the Empire some challenge, cause as is you guys aren't shit.
 

Brandon Rhea

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The Imperial Knights started as an official Indie faction. Would changing back to one really be such a setback for us?

Just for the record, if you become an independent faction, it would not be the with the Official Independent Faction status again. You could keep your board, but your status as an independent faction would be no different than any other independent faction. You'll be one of many.
 

DeathToll

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we would, we'd be bowing to them. its the principle of the thing.

We would not be bowing to them. We would have the same dignity and the same individuality. We would still be seperate, but together in cause. The principle remains intact.

Keinushi said:
How would we not make a dent as an indie faction? And who cares if we make a dent or not, I've been having fun just working within the order, gather members and research.

We would not have the means to make a dent, not the numbers and not the capabilities. That is how.

Having fun just working within the order to gather members and research would not change. You can still do this. We would still be the Imperial Knights completely anad totally.

Keinushi said:
don't care, want the sith to win anyways

I have no arguement for this as I always ignore the overall story and concentrate on fun characters.

Its the principle of the matter. Its the reason the empire never joined the allaince, even after becomeing allies. They had their pride. They were a seperate people and proud. However this is something you don't seem to understand.

We would remain seperate and would keep our pride. We would be fighting along side the Jedi either way, under Weiss or under me or under Syn for that matter. We share the same enemy.

You can concentrate on fun characters and ignore the story as much as you like. We still would not be joining the Alliance as you say, there would be no mixture and would remain a seperate entity. The principle remains untouched.
 

Keinushi

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I'm still ok with being an indie faction. it makes no difference to me. but being a subsection of the jedi I find purely insulting. I have a jedi character. if i wanted another jedi, I'd make another jedi. and navigating the jedi thread is hard enough as is without us cluttering it up even more.
 

Allu'rah Danan

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Say we join the Jedi and Alliance, since that seems pretty inevitable at this point.
Is there any chance whatsoever at any point in the future that we will become our own faction again? We recruit. We get more members. We expand our fleet. I think we'll actually stand a chance of getting more people once we do something noteworthy in the overall story. So if we get a firm foundation under our feet, might we become our own faction?
 

Keinushi

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Say we join the Jedi and Alliance, since that seems pretty inevitable at this point.
Is there any chance whatsoever at any point in the future that we will become our own faction again? We recruit. We get more members. We expand our fleet. I think we'll actually stand a chance of getting more people once we do something noteworthy in the overall story. So if we get a firm foundation under our feet, might we become our own faction?

good point, if we join the jedi, we're there for life. we'll basically become shadow jedi, or whatever that stupid jedi group from old timeline was called.
 

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That 'stupid Jedi group' caused the death of multiple leaders of Bogan and ultimately got Hutts to turn around and attack Bogan. :P

Anyway, what I'm confused about here is the constant idea that IK would be licking Jedi's boots or something. Jedi and IK were to be allies to begin with, so I don't get where this idea of serving the other faction is coming from. Similarly, if Chiss becomes a sub faction under Sith, it's in no way some sort of master/slave relationship or meant to be insulting. And that's SITH we're talking about. So I think it's laughable that people think that working with Alliance or being a subfaction automatically means serving. This is meant to unite the good guys so they stand a much more solid chance against the Sith/Chiss. All the bad guys are working together, so I don't understand why this strong distaste for Jedi/Alliance exists. You're not going to be given "my way or the highway" type orders from Jedi/Alliance. You'll retain your identity as IK, but you'll be much more powerful with Jedi/Alliance backing. What I'm seeing now is a vast amount of ego problems, and it's simply not worth killing an entire faction over.
 

DeathToll

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Say we join the Jedi and Alliance, since that seems pretty inevitable at this point.
Is there any chance whatsoever at any point in the future that we will become our own faction again? We recruit. We get more members. We expand our fleet. I think we'll actually stand a chance of getting more people once we do something noteworthy in the overall story. So if we get a firm foundation under our feet, might we become our own faction?

I am in total agreement with you Allu'rah! This is my view as well, that we one day find the strength to again stand on our own. My answer to this is YES. We would again become our own faction IF we checked off the checklist of requirements to do so. This would no doubt require a certain amount of PC members, as well as time to reorganize (which would not so easily happen unless we did this. I promis you, the Sith will not let the IKs find each other ICly and regroup.) We would have to beat the Sith back to a certain point as well. And securing the Jedi to be able to stop these kinds of attacks is the answer to stopping the Sith from being able to do these kinds of attacks on us. Strengthen them and we strengthen ourselves. Remember, we are and have always been, in this timeline, in GA space territory.

good point, if we join the jedi, we're there for life. we'll basically become shadow jedi, or whatever that stupid jedi group from old timeline was called.

No. We will stay the same. Nothing will change. We will not become shadow Jedi because that would not be allowed by the IKs commander, me. And we will work to the goal of one day becoming what we have always wanted to be: THE IMPERIAL KNIGHTS OF THE TRUE EMPIRE.
 

Keinushi

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That 'stupid Jedi group' caused the death of multiple leaders of Bogan and ultimately got Hutts to turn around and attack Bogan. :P

Anyway, what I'm confused about here is the constant idea that IK would be licking Jedi's boots or something. Jedi and IK were to be allies to begin with, so I don't get where this idea of serving the other faction is coming from. Similarly, if Chiss becomes a sub faction under Sith, it's in no way some sort of master/slave relationship or meant to be insulting. And that's SITH we're talking about. So I think it's laughable that people think that working with Alliance or being a subfaction automatically means serving. This is meant to unite the good guys so they stand a much more solid chance against the Sith/Chiss. All the bad guys are working together, so I don't understand why this strong distaste for Jedi/Alliance exists. You're not going to be given "my way or the highway" type orders from Jedi/Alliance. You'll retain your identity as IK, but you'll be much more powerful with Jedi/Alliance backing. What I'm seeing now is a vast amount of ego problems, and it's simply not worth killing an entire faction over.

you know what I still don't get? The sith are a subsection of the empire. That's just weird. and how would the chiss be a subsection of the sith?

but yeah, I'm not liking the idea of joining the jedi, and then possibly never becoming our own faction again.

so yeah, i'm still very much against this. and its written into my character that she will leave if this happens. theres nothing I can do about that, but i doubt I'll be making a new character like I originally intended. Might as well just make a bloody jedi, CAUSE THEY WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME!

I always thought it was weird we were our own faction, since we seemed more like a really well run indie, so changing to a really well run indie would not change much in my mind.

edit:
If we really can become our own faction again, then ooc, I'm ok with this, for now. I still don't like it and would preffer going indie, but I'm quickly realizing my thoughts in this don't matter, your going to do whatever you want.

however IC, I am going to leave the Knights, which sucks cause I was just getting into the grove with this character.
 
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DeathToll

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but yeah, I'm not liking the idea of joining the jedi, and then possibly never becoming our own faction again.

so yeah, i'm still very much against this. and its written into my character that she will leave if this happens. theres nothing I can do about that, but i doubt I'll be making a new character like I originally intended. Might as well just make a bloody jedi, CAUSE THEY WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME!

I always thought it was weird we were our own faction, since we seemed more like a really well run indie, so changing to a really well run indie would not change much in my mind.

Fact: The IKs will not be Jedi. EVER.

Fact: There are no offers to make this forever.

We're not being put in prison here folks. We will remain a well run indie, with the backing of the Jedi. We will remain seperate. We will remain IKs. What is the problem? I ask you. Tell me how?
 
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