Feedback

[Vencu]

Do you think the faction has improved? What do you think would make it better? Do you like the current setup for the Mando board? Are the current quests and missions fun and interesting? Is the major clan and minor clan system working? Are the clan leaders, Mars, and myself doing our jobs well? How can we improve? Please offer some feedback and don't hold back. Be honest. If you see a problem, say so, but be prepared to offer a solution, too. That's the only way we'll get better.

 

[Kiro]

First of all: Yes. I think the faction has vastly improved from the Civil War it was in when I first joined. It's now the busiest faction on the entire site. And the setup is alright as it is.

As for the Major and Minor clan thing, there is obviously benefits and drawbacks, as there is with any system. The benefit is obviously that the minor clans enjoy the "umbrella effect" in that they gain the benefits of the Major clans they are under, but they risk being overwhelmed by the Major ones, and might suffer if the Major Clan goes inactive. Another drawback is that the minor clans might struggle to gain members at all, as new members are "dazzled" by the Majors. Fett and Ordo being the obvious culprits (especially Fett). Note: I'm not railing against either Clan or their players, simply stating facts.

The way to fix this, to get a Minor Clan to stand out and become noticeable is obviously entirely down to the players and the members of that Clan. If you want your Minor Clan to be a force to be reckoned with, make it so through IC actions.


And another thing that I've been a bit... how to put this. Not concerned, nor disturbed... perhaps bothered, about is the overemphasis of Clan and Rank seperation. Mandalorians have never been greatly concerned about rank or clan belonging (beyond actually belonging to a clan, as the Mando'a word for Clan, Family, and Identity are one and the same).

In the past, Mandalorian government, as far as it existed at all, consisted of the Mandalore (whomever he or she may have been) sitting down in the Oyu'baat with a mug of ne'tra gal and a bowl of tiingilar with representatives, perhaps not even the Clan Leaders themselves, and simply talking stuff over. If you wanted to state your opinions, you just went up to Mandalore and said your piece. He might disagree. He might put his boot up your ass. But he'd hear you out, regardless of your rank or Clan.

Right now, I feel we lack that 'unified' feel. We're too divided by clan and rank. We're still not "Mandalorian". We're "Ordo" or "Fett" or "Vencu".


Also, this is just a personal niggle for me, but the high amount of Force Sensetive Mandalorians is rather distressing.

 

[Vencu]

The rank system is intended to be very informal. Personally, I'd rather have no ranks at all and carry on much like you've suggested, but that takes something away from the many members who want to see a clear result of their character's efforts over time. If you haven't already, check this thread out. It isn't a perfect system, but I was attempting to find middle ground. IC, it makes sense that they'd have nothing but a loose hierarchy consisting of Mand'alor and the various clan leaders. OOC, it would be difficult to establish a chain-of-command without some sort of guide in place. Members would likely argue about whose character has more authority. Having this informal rank structure prevents that. However, it may be possible to do away with "faction ranking" and leave it to the clans to decide their internal rank structure or lack thereof. The faction could still have a Solyc Al'akaan (Mandalore's second-in-command/right hand man), but then the rest of the leadership could be clan leaders, who obviously serve a dual role... they'd be aliit'alore (clan leaders) and al'akaan (war leaders; general/admiral analogs).

Essentially, it could be arranged like this...

• Mand'alor
• Solyc Al'akaan
• Al'akaane/Aliit'alore

Each Al'akaan/aliit'alor would then determine who is to serve as his or her second-in-command and which warriors have command of platoons and such during battle. That can be achieved through a clan rank structure or determined through skill and prowess. Regardless, it would be up to the clan leader to decide. What do you think about that?

As far as approaching Mand'alor goes, that's how I try to portray it. The problem is, many people still think of Mando ranks as if they were real world ranks or GA/Imperium ranks. Those are strict rank systems where discipline and obedience are enforced. It shouldn't be that way for the Mandalorians. The loyalty, obedience, and respect of the warriors under a leader should be earned. Even so, many role-players still try to portray their characters as if other Mandalorians owe them respect and obediance just because of their title. I can't stand that. I see it all the time in real life. Mandalorians would knock that person off their high horse and then move along. It just isn't tolerated. Actions are what make a Mandalorian and leaders should be the ones who prove themselves in combat time and time again... that means if a ge'verd can do your job better than you, then he or she has every right to challenge your leadership and take your place. Make sense?

My point is, rank doesn't matter. Unfortunately, people still think it does no matter what write-ups I post or what Corden himself has said IC. Also, on another note, I've had every intention of using the Oyu'baat as a meeting grounds just like you described. I've wanted to do that long before I became faction leader... we just have to get Manda'yaim back first.

As for Force sensitives: Corden isn't too keen either, but that's clan business. As long as they follow the Resol'nare and behave like true Mandalorians should, he won't get involved. Now, if they were to try and form some kind of Jedi Order for the Mandalorians... that wouldn't sit well with him at all. He views the Force as a tool and despises those that would use it like a crutch. Force sensitive Mandalorians should live and train like every other Mandalorian. They shouldn't get special treatment, special training, or a special title.

 

[Apollyon]

First of all: Yes. I think the faction has vastly improved from the Civil War it was in when I first joined. It's now the busiest faction on the entire site. And the setup is alright as it is.

As for the Major and Minor clan thing, there is obviously benefits and drawbacks, as there is with any system. The benefit is obviously that the minor clans enjoy the "umbrella effect" in that they gain the benefits of the Major clans they are under, but they risk being overwhelmed by the Major ones, and might suffer if the Major Clan goes inactive. Another drawback is that the minor clans might struggle to gain members at all, as new members are "dazzled" by the Majors. Fett and Ordo being the obvious culprits (especially Fett). Note: I'm not railing against either Clan or their players, simply stating facts.

The way to fix this, to get a Minor Clan to stand out and become noticeable is obviously entirely down to the players and the members of that Clan. If you want your Minor Clan to be a force to be reckoned with, make it so through IC actions.


And another thing that I've been a bit... how to put this. Not concerned, nor disturbed... perhaps bothered, about is the overemphasis of Clan and Rank seperation. Mandalorians have never been greatly concerned about rank or clan belonging (beyond actually belonging to a clan, as the Mando'a word for Clan, Family, and Identity are one and the same).

In the past, Mandalorian government, as far as it existed at all, consisted of the Mandalore (whomever he or she may have been) sitting down in the Oyu'baat with a mug of ne'tra gal and a bowl of tiingilar with representatives, perhaps not even the Clan Leaders themselves, and simply talking stuff over. If you wanted to state your opinions, you just went up to Mandalore and said your piece. He might disagree. He might put his boot up your ass. But he'd hear you out, regardless of your rank or Clan.

Right now, I feel we lack that 'unified' feel. We're too divided by clan and rank. We're still not "Mandalorian". We're "Ordo" or "Fett" or "Vencu".


Also, this is just a personal niggle for me, but the high amount of Force Sensetive Mandalorians is rather distressing.

I have noticed.a.very divided feel too, but if you look at Canon clan.relations you will see EVERY clan had tensions between each other, in times of war they fought flawlessly together but outside of that they would actually wage war on each other in "clan wars"

Also, the reason I have made ARC faction wide is to help remedy that feeling of dividing amongst the clans :) instead of.having to be in a specific clan to join a specialized unit of commandos, now you can be ANY clan minor.or major and fight as a Black Ops Commando.

Also, the minor clans under my control haven't really had any issues? Varad has had quite a few pcs join up. Although if pc clan leaders joined up there wouldnt be a problem if the major clan suddenly went inactive.

 

[Apollyon]

The rank system is intended to be very informal. Personally, I'd rather have no ranks at all and carry on much like you've suggested, but that takes something away from the many members who want to see a clear result of their character's efforts over time. If you haven't already, check this thread out. It isn't a perfect system, but I was attempting to find middle ground. IC, it makes sense that they'd have nothing but a loose hierarchy consisting of Mand'alor and the various clan leaders. OOC, it would be difficult to establish a chain-of-command without some sort of guide in place. Members would likely argue about whose character has more authority. Having this informal rank structure prevents that. However, it may be possible to do away with "faction ranking" and leave it to the clans to decide their internal rank structure or lack thereof. The faction could still have a Solyc Al'akaan (Mandalore's second-in-command/right hand man), but then the rest of the leadership could be clan leaders, who obviously serve a dual role... they'd be aliit'alore (clan leaders) and al'akaan (war leaders; general/admiral analogs).

Essentially, it could be arranged like this...

• Mand'alor
• Solyc Al'akaan
• Al'akaane/Aliit'alore

Each Al'akaan/aliit'alor would then determine who is to serve as his or her second-in-command and which warriors have command of platoons and such during battle. That can be achieved through a clan rank structure or determined through skill and prowess. Regardless, it would be up to the clan leader to decide. What do you think about that?

As far as approaching Mand'alor goes, that's how I try to portray it. The problem is, many people still think of Mando ranks as if they were real world ranks or GA/Imperium ranks. Those are strict rank systems where discipline and obedience are enforced. It shouldn't be that way for the Mandalorians. The loyalty, obedience, and respect of the warriors under a leader should be earned. Even so, many role-players still try to portray their characters as if other Mandalorians owe them respect and obediance just because of their title. I can't stand that. I see it all the time in real life. Mandalorians would knock that person off their high horse and then move along. It just isn't tolerated. Actions are what make a Mandalorian and leaders should be the ones who prove themselves in combat time and time again... that means if a ge'verd can do your job better than you, then he or she has every right to challenge your leadership and take your place. Make sense?

My point is, rank doesn't matter. Unfortunately, people still think it does no matter what write-ups I post or what Corden himself has said IC. Also, on another note, I've had every intention of using the Oyu'baat as a meeting grounds just like you described. I've wanted to do that long before I became faction leader... we just have to get Manda'yaim back first.

As for Force sensitives: Corden isn't too keen either, but that's clan business. As long as they follow the Resol'nare and behave like true Mandalorians should, he won't get involved. Now, if they were to try and form some kind of Jedi Order for the Mandalorians... that wouldn't sit well with him at all. He views the Force as a tool and despises those that would use it like a crutch. Force sensitive Mandalorians should live and train like every other Mandalorian. They shouldn't get special treatment, special training, or a special title.

Only a few things I disagree with with, firstly the clan rankings system.
The reason being we would in essence return to the Crusader days where every mando was so.individualized they couldn't tell who was in charge during battles. Thus, the birth of the Neo-crusader armor and a formal rank structure based on armor coloration.

As stated before the neo-crusaders (arguably the most successful Mandalorians to date) had a very formal rank structure. There were 7 ranks though just three.
Verd- blue armor
Sergeant- red armor
Field Marshal- gold armor

This made the Mandalorians into a we oiled machine in times of war and outside.of combat still gave the Mandalorians a feeling of structure instead of chaos. (Which Mandalorians HATE!)

 

[Raif]

I think a good thing about the minor clans that will draw people, at least initially, is that it will be easier for a newer PC character to step into leadership positions as a minor clan leader than a major clan leader. This could almost be a good sort of grooming process for bigger leadership roles later on.

 

[Crim]

It's great, but I'm still waiting on the orgy thread.

 

[Raif]

Dafuq did i just read?

 

[Kiro]

*removed for the sake of space*

You just gave me a very big happy.

@A'den: Where do you get all this? Mandalorians have never hated chaos. In fact they damn near revel in it. What they hate is STAGNATION, which is heavily tied into an overly strict and complicated rank system and beurocracy. And did you even read Corden's post? Carefully? What that means in battle, is that A'den would still have a command role. He's proven himself as a skilled warrior and leader. But he shouldn't just expect everyone to roll over and do what he says, especially if they think it's a daft order. We're Mandalorians, not the kriffing Sith.

The loyalty, obedience, and respect of the warriors under a leader should be earned. Even so, many role-players still try to portray their characters as if other Mandalorians owe them respect and obediance just because of their title. I can't stand that. I see it all the time in real life. Mandalorians would knock that person off their high horse and then move along. It just isn't tolerated. Actions are what make a Mandalorian and leaders should be the ones who prove themselves in combat time and time again...

As Corden himself stated. If you're a good warrior and have proven yourself to the Clans, then you shouldn't have to worry about anything. If you are however just a puffed up bag of hot air hiding behind a swanky title and a Clan name, then as said, they won't respect you and come kick your ass. This is a culture of nomadic, honourbound, family-obsessed, warriors. The right to lead is constantly challenged.

My point is, rank doesn't matter. Unfortunately, people still think it does no matter what write-ups I post or what Corden himself has said IC.

And there, in it's simplest point, you have it, straight from the horse's mouth, as it were. (No offense, Corden.)

Also, on another note, I've had every intention of using the Oyu'baat as a meeting grounds just like you described. I've wanted to do that long before I became faction leader... we just have to get Manda'yaim back first.

Yeah, I've been meaning to bring that up for a while, actually. The Sith kicked us out of Manda'yaim, and we had a big old civil war, and now we're allied with them. Which is fine, don't get me wrong here. But the fact that the Sith still continue to cling onto our old space, our ancestral home since the first Taung left ancient Coruscant is, to my eyes at least, a huge insult.

I'm aware that both ICly and OOCly it might not be as easy as going "Hey, Sith guys, mind giving Mandalore back to us now tha we're allies", but something has to be done about it.

 

[Mars]

*snip*

Yeah, I've been meaning to bring that up for a while, actually. The Sith kicked us out of Manda'yaim, and we had a big old civil war, and now we're allied with them. Which is fine, don't get me wrong here. But the fact that the Sith still continue to cling onto our old space, our ancestral home since the first Taung left ancient Coruscant is, to my eyes at least, a huge insult.

I'm aware that both ICly and OOCly it might not be as easy as going "Hey, Sith guys, mind giving Mandalore back to us now tha we're allies", but something has to be done about it.

And this is where I can come in!

Once we successfully complete some fighting against the Alliance to prove that we're legitimately allies, then we will get planets back quite fairly. The Empire VASTLY rewards those are competent just as it SEVERELY punishes those who are not. Clan Ordo in particular will be gearing up for a campaign working alongside the Stormtrooper Corps soon, so if you're interested in joining maybe we could work something out :D

 

[Sreeya]

Corden and I have discussed getting Mando space back to them many times. That's not an issue to bring up, as it's being covered already.

Also, in regards to the rank thing, I'm noticing that some of the ranking is really getting to peoples' heads not just ICly but OOCly too. The snooty behavior is quite frankly beginning to tick me off. There's a sense of self entitlement and people are acting like they're far above the Verd level Mandalorians, which is disgusting to see. I don't know too much about Mandos, but even I can say that's a bit off. Far too much importance is placed on rank, and even people that wouldn't see it as such feel the need to view it like that because they need rank in order to be taken seriously.

 

[Corrupt Justice]

Field Marshal- gold armor


... Well crap, does this mean that Zevnir has to paint his pretty gold armor a different color? :P

Yeah I'm confused as to why the Sith are still holding onto Mandalorian territories... I would think that we would have that back. We've already proved that we're on their side, correct? We would see it as a sign of good faith or something that sort of solidifies our allegence because right now it appears they're dangling it above our heads to keep on their side.


.... And then I post really, really slow. Sorry. xD

 

[Kiro]

And this is where I can come in!

Once we successfully complete some fighting against the Alliance to prove that we're legitimately allies, then we will get planets back quite fairly. The Empire VASTLY rewards those are competent just as it SEVERELY punishes those who are not. Clan Ordo in particular will be gearing up for a campaign working alongside the Stormtrooper Corps soon, so if you're interested in joining maybe we could work something out :D

Cool. That sounds good.

 

[Mars]

Corden and I have discussed getting Mando space back to them many times. That's not an issue to bring up, as it's being covered already.

Also, in regards to the rank thing, I'm noticing that some of the ranking is really getting to peoples' heads not just ICly but OOCly too. The snooty behavior is quite frankly beginning to tick me off. There's a sense of self entitlement and people are acting like they're far above the Verd level Mandalorians, which is disgusting to see. I don't know too much about Mandos, but even I can say that's a bit off. Far too much importance is placed on rank, and even people that wouldn't see it as such feel the need to view it like that because they need rank in order to be taken seriously.

This is a large problem. When you guys see things like that happening, feel free to tell me or Corden and we'll step up and solve the problem. Even better, if it's your character, go ahead and take 'em down a few pegs. There's no bad blood over something like an honor duel, especially if they're acting like an ass in the first place, so the person can't really hold a grudge.

 

[Sreeya]

No, Mandos haven't proved it till they've gone on the offense against GA. That's not Sith being mean or tricksy, that's just plain logic. Giving Mando space back to Mandos before they go to war with GA is retarded because they could simply lead GA in to screw Sith over from the inside. It's baffling to me why people don't get that and are hellbent on thinking that it's Sith just toying with Mandos by holding onto their territory. Sith aren't stupid enough to hand everything over when there's no concrete proof, and people need to get over that. This is a slowly building alliance.

 

[Mars]

No, Mandos haven't proved it till they've gone on the offense against GA. That's not Sith being mean or tricksy, that's just plain logic. Giving Mando space back to Mandos before they go to war with GA is retarded because they could simply lead GA in to screw Sith over from the inside. It's baffling to me why people don't get that and are hellbent on thinking that it's Sith just toying with Mandos by holding onto their territory. Sith aren't stupid enough to hand everything over when there's no concrete proof, and people need to get over that. This is a slowly building alliance.

And with that, this conversation shall be put to rest.

 

[Skyway]

Form the time before and after I join, yes it has got better.
The missions are fine. Though the big one at the moment is still going.
The clans...the clans, like what Kiro said but I know the minor clans never going to get as nice as the main clans. The minor clans should be at lest the force behind the main clans.ex:Fett minor clans;
Beviin should be all about ships/space items as Jeban should be about medics. Each minor clan should spect into something for the main clan. "though i'm not a fan on this main/minor clans but if it works it works."
Last but not lest leader feedback, Vencu you are doing ok as mando leader, though I do not know how the old leaders was. And something for A'den, You are doing cool stuff for fetts and all of mando.

 

[Vencu]

Also, in regards to the rank thing, I'm noticing that some of the ranking is really getting to peoples' heads not just ICly but OOCly too. The snooty behavior is quite frankly beginning to tick me off. There's a sense of self entitlement and people are acting like they're far above the Verd level Mandalorians, which is disgusting to see. I don't know too much about Mandos, but even I can say that's a bit off. Far too much importance is placed on rank, and even people that wouldn't see it as such feel the need to view it like that because they need rank in order to be taken seriously.

This is a large problem. When you guys see things like that happening, feel free to tell me or Corden and we'll step up and solve the problem. Even better, if it's your character, go ahead and take 'em down a few pegs. There's no bad blood over something like an honor duel, especially if they're acting like an ass in the first place, so the person can't really hold a grudge.

Mars is spot on. If someone is acting that way IC, your character has every right (in fact, he or she has a responsibility) to knock that person off their high horse and put them in their place. Every Mando character is a Verd. Verde aren't at the "bottom" of the totem pole. They are the totem pole. It's a general term. It means WARRIOR, not private... and many people seem to have forgotten that. Being a Verd means your character has passed is or her Verd'goten (the traditional Mandalorian rite of passage). It means your character has equal rights and standing in Mandalorian society. It means he or she is considered an adult. That's all. It isn't a lesser role by any means. It's the standard. People who are Verde either haven't earned a position of leadership yet or have no interest in earning one.

Everyone, please look at the faction roster. See my character Coro Kevara? He's the CEO of MandalMotors. If we were using some sort of class system, wouldn't he deserve a higher rank given his position? But that isn't the case. He holds no military title because he isn't serving in a military role. Key word there: title. That's all they are. These titles serve to distinguish individuals by the roles they lead. If someone is a Me'sen Al'verde, you know he or she is a starship commander. If someone is a Traat'ab Al'verde, you know he or she is an infantry commander. If someone is a Ver'alor, you know he or she probably leads a platoon of warriors on the battlefield. Why? Because that warrior has earned the respect of his fellow Verde and shown he or she is capable of leading. Alternatively, that Ver'alor could have earned his or her title/role by showing aptitude in space combat; now he or she is commanding a squadron of starfighters or a few small starships because of it. The titles specify roles/jobs. These roles must be earned and your character must remain skilled and proficient in them. Fail or abuse the position and you get replaced. Simple as that... like I said, everyone is Verd. It's synonymous with Mandalorian. They aren't "grunts" or "privates." In the end, there's just Mand'alor and then there's Mando'ade. Everything else is a job title.

I know I ranted on for a while there and probably backtracked a few times and repeated myself, but it's late here and I'm exhausted. Hopefully it still gets my point across.

 

[Raif]

This is a large problem. When you guys see things like that happening, feel free to tell me or Corden and we'll step up and solve the problem. Even better, if it's your character, go ahead and take 'em down a few pegs. There's no bad blood over something like an honor duel, especially if they're acting like an ass in the first place, so the person can't really hold a grudge.

I'd like to report the player Mars for his 'snooty behavior' and 'sense of self entitlement.' So let's commence with that down-knocking of pegs.

Go ahead, I'm waiting.

 

[Mars]

I'd like to report the player Mars for his 'snooty behavior' and 'sense of self entitlement.' So let's commence with that down-knocking of pegs.

Go ahead, I'm waiting.

I guess he's demoted putting that Raif guy in ch-

WAIT A MINUTE