[Interest] [AU] Deutscheland über Alles!

Tristar

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Kameraden, citizens of the Third Reich! Take heed, your country calls for your service! It is 1945 the dawn of a grand war to remind Europe, nein, the whole world that Germany will not bear the shame of the Great War! Crippled from the Treaty of Versailles, we still clawed our way from the depths of economic hell and persevered against the whole world. Under the leadership of our great Fuhrer, we have rebuilt our nation, our confidence and our pride! We were promised glory and power to last a thousand years, and even with the death of our grand leader at the hands of Allied assassins, we will carry on his legacy!

To war! Along with our Russian allies, we will tear Poland apart and reclaim our rightful territory of Danzig and her surrounding regions! With a swift victory, we then turn to the Franzosen, men who would rather stuff their face with cheese and wine than face the people of Deutscheland. Men and women who have starved through winter, watched helplessly as jobs become scarce and weep for our children.

But now, now we will show them that Germany does not forget. Or forgive.​



Information

So what is this? This, mein kameraden, is an Alternate Universe Role Play of World War 2. You, and many others are part of the Wehrmacht, the pride of the Fatherland, and you have a lot to live up to. In this universe Hitler rose to power by rallying the people of Germany against the French, who had crippled them with the Treaty of Versailles. The concept of using the Jews as scapegoats for their economic downfall came much later and as a secondary measure to cement support for his political party. As the years pass, Germany grew and regain its lost power and prestige: the Wehrmacht had been successfully converted into a fully mechanized army (with Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs a common staple in german panzer divisions.), the first of its kind in the whole world. No more are horses used as the primary means of transportation, now the rumble of armoured vehicles fill the streets as they roll to a great future. Its economy revitalized with effective policies, crime rate fell to an all time low and overall satisfaction had increased dramatically.

However as the years pass, Hitler's policies slowly started to target the Jewish population as he succumbed to his personal beliefs. This did not go unnoticed by many of the German high officers who understood that if things got out of hand, it would ruin Germany's reputation diplomatically. And so on the dawn of 1945, the 1st of January, Operation Valkryie was carried out. High above in his secluded residence, a bomb ticked to its last seconds, and the Fuhrer of Germany went up in flames. His death was announced and Germany fell under military control, lead by Field Marshall Erwin von Witzleben, who abolished many of the antisemitic policies. Operation Valkryie was not simply a plan to take out the Fuhrer however, and shortly after Hitler was buried Erwin declared that his death had been the result of the French government, fearing Germany's rise to power under a powerful, charismatic leader.

Just like that, Hitler became a martyr to his people, and feelings of resentment against the French only rose to greater levels. The Waffen SS returned back to its roots as personal bodyguards of government and military personnel, with no more power over the Wehrmacht officers than Hitler had any life in him. With the Molotov-Ribbentrop Act signed on the 23rd August 1945, the Germans now have signed a non-aggression pact with the Soviets. Along with a promise to not attack each other in these coming years, Germany has declared war on Poland on the 16th September 1945, soon to be followed by their Soviet friends. The target? The capital city of Danzig, where Germany will claim its neighboring regions for its peoples.

The French were not oblivious to the feelings of resentment towards them, but foolishly placed its faith in the Maginot Line, claiming it to be impenetrable by the Wehrmacht. Though numerically superior and with a large complement of tanks on their own and allied to Britain (and her colonies), this did not deter the Wehrmacht, who instead saw it as a challenge. Even the threat of the Royal Navy is no longer enough to dissuade the Germans: time has not been kind to the British fleet as Germany now possess two aircraft carriers, the Bismark and Graf Zeppelin making the Royal Navy nearly obsolete with her main component of destroyers and frigates. Combined with the Luftwaffe and the persistent raids of the Kriegsmarine's feared U-boats, the battle for the control of the seas seem to shift in Germany's favour. America has yet to join the war, looking threateningly at the Imperial influence in the Pacific.

And you, of all the grand things that have occurred in the recent decades, where do you fit into this?

You, my friend are a soldier of the Wehrmacht, drafted and trained in the arts of war from the best of the best. All of you come from different backgrounds, different places with different motivations. Yet what connects all of you, is the bond of camaraderie and the desire to live through it all. This roleplay will focus around a single infantry platoon of the 7th Panzer Division lead by General Erwin Rommel, spearheading the German invasion.

The purpose of this RP is to emulate the feeling of the HBO's award winning series 'Band of Brothers'. Therefore anyone that joins will almost always start as mere privates (Grenadier rank) and overtime will earn promotions as NCOs (Primarilly NPCs) are killed off. This is to give a sense of accomplishment to your characters, watching them grow from a mere fresh faced grenadier to a respected Obergefreiter or maybe even a Unteroffizier! Who knows, one of you may be promoted to Platoon Leader! Together as we work together, we will craft a story to rival HBO: So who's with me?
 
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Chask274

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Count me in, this'll be fun.
 

Jinan B

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Can I bring the Wrath of Sabaton to the front whilst I'm at it?

This is honestly the first AU RP here that I think I actually want to join
 

Padmé

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This is Padme the user speaking here. Looking hard, but honestly cannnot come up with a single reason why a thread such as this one should exist. Threads such as this makes me ashamed to be a part of this forum.
 

Nor'baal

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I hate to say this, and I am sure there is a good intention behind this, but - honestly this looks really really really like a sick joke. I'm sure that's not what was intended, but an alternate history in which the Nazi party are the good guys is not a great idea.

I would suggest doing an alternate history like "Steampunk British Empire" or "Sci Fi Communists" (there was a video game like that, the Russians discovered time travel or something?) less likely to offend people if the alternate history is really wacky.
 

Chask274

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This is Padme the user speaking here. Looking hard, but honestly cannnot come up with a single reason why a thread such as this one should exist. Threads such as this makes me ashamed to be a part of this forum.
I hate to say this, and I am sure there is a good intention behind this, but - honestly this looks really really really like a sick joke. I'm sure that's not what was intended, but an alternate history in which the Nazi party are the good guys is not a great idea.

I would suggest doing an alternate history like "Steampunk British Empire" or "Sci Fi Communists" (there was a video game like that, the Russians discovered time travel or something?) less likely to offend people if the alternate history is really wacky.
If I'm correctly understanding Tri's intention here, he's not trying to make the Third Reich look like good guys. He's simply presenting an alternate history where most of Germany's more heinous war crimes never happened, because Hitler was taken out of the picture before he could order them to happen.

At which point this becomes an RP based solely in the WW2 military genre, which I don't see a problem with. There are countless reenactment groups out there that portray various Wehrmacht units, and they aren't frowned upon so long as they be respectful of the history of those that they're portraying. How would this be any different?

Please note, I am in no way condoning the actions of the RL Nazi party, just simply discussing the contents of this thread.
 

Slamdingo

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I'm for this for a few reasons.

Firstly, not all the German soldiers of the Wermacht were evil people. They didn't all sit brooding in dark rooms muttering "Jeeeeeeeeeews." under their breath darkly. They didn't all think that the Jewish people were evil - and if you actually bothered to read through the summary you'd see that the man we all really hate the Nazis for dies. He's not a hero. He's not misunderstood. He's not a good guy with bad methods. He's a nut-job who was spotted out by those around him early on and killed. At the very best he's being used as a tool. This is honestly just military AU shown from a side we don't normally see because people have stuck such a stigma to it all.

Understandably given the past of a party led by a truly terrible monster who, I think, we can all agree died far quicker and less painfully than he had any right to.

And like Chal said - Hitler and his close staff were horrible people who we're all grateful are dead and gone. Tri knows and agrees with that as well. But this isn't about them and this isn't a story for them.
 
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Tristar

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I hate to say this, and I am sure there is a good intention behind this, but - honestly this looks really really really like a sick joke. I'm sure that's not what was intended, but an alternate history in which the Nazi party are the good guys is not a great idea.

I would suggest doing an alternate history like "Steampunk British Empire" or "Sci Fi Communists" (there was a video game like that, the Russians discovered time travel or something?) less likely to offend people if the alternate history is really wacky.
While I understand this is a touchy subject for many people, don't you think any Empire/Superpower of that Era had not committed what would most definitely be considered crimes against humanity against other ethnicities? You say I should go do a 'Sci Fi communist RP', but The Soviet Union definitely had their own 'ethnic cleansing' much like the Germans did. How did the Ottoman Empire lose 1.5 million Armenians? Wasn't left behind at the grocery store I can tell you for sure.

The British Empire during their colonialisation wasn't any particularly clean of any sins either, as a citizen of a former British colony will tell you. Rampant discrimination, exploitation of natural resources (including manpower for their wars which we did not want to participate in) and other things to date. Don't you think I have a right to be offended by your suggestion? But I'm not, because it's pointless to do so and because it's history- it's been done. Remembered, yes, but you don't go pointing at every german calling them Nazis as much as I don't go out to every british man (my dad's from Britian as well) and ask them to repay for what they did to my homeland.

The point is, neither one Empire/nation is truly sin-free when it comes to international events. Germany definitely had a bad rep because of one lunatic who refused to see rationality when it was dancing naked in his face. If I'm not offending one group, I'd be offending another, yet all I'm doing is shying away from the political aspect of the war (fictional, though follows some of the chronological order of how WW2 begun in terms of battles to a varying degree) and focusing on the few soldiers in the front.

I'm not trying to glorify what Nazi Germany did, what they did truly was an affront to humanity. What I'm trying to do, is to delve deeper into how their army, the Wehrmacht (Not the Waffen SS) operated. At the time they were considered to be the most professional and well trained army. We are not RPing as die-hard Nazis (Waffen SS) in this scenario, going on a Jew-killing spree. Many, if not all of the Wehrmacht personnel were drafted into the army, and while there were those who truly believed in the Nazi propaganda, most were simply grateful that Hitler had revived the local economy and brought them out of the depression. Many did not have a choice, given the dictatorial rule.

All I'm doing now, is to recreate the formula of Band of Brothers, but from the eyes of the aggressors. I'm sure most of you have families persecuted during the Nazi Occupation Era and I'm truly sorry if I have actually offended you (Not my main intention). This is why I'm pushing for a roleplay that takes place directly on the frontlines where you have less time to 'rub your hands together and mutter about Jeeeews' (Who in this AU, is not a victim of genocide, their would-be killer already 6 feet underground) and more about dodging bullets and fighting as how the German doctrine would have trained you, as well as making sure your fireteam buddy doesn't get killed. I've seen a good number of Tommy RPs, Canadian RPs, hell even at one point a Polish Resistance RP. I'm getting bored of that formula, so I'm trying out something new, something creative while minimizing the OFFENSO-METER.

But if I'm barred from trying out something new that's not been touched, then I'm ashamed of this forum as well.

Please take note, I bear no grudge against you, and am merely treating this as a formal argument between civilized individuals. I respect each and everyone of you. If you do want to oppose the RP I'm fine with that, but I would like it to be less a thing of 'I'm offended' and more 'Here's a few reasonable arguments which offers a solid contribution to the argument'. @Padmé :(
 

Nor'baal

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The Nazi party gassed millions in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, an atrocity that has not been seen in such scale before or since.

That is why this is in bad taste.

Why don't do this using a fictional race? Slam it into a video game setting, Warhammer or Halo? You can have band of brothers feel, but instead of basing this on real events you base it on the Middle Ages, or killing Orks, or killing Orks.

Basically Orks.

But seriously - most diverse RP that takes place in war, steers clear of playing on the same side as the axis for a good reason.
 

Jinan B

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Except, you know, in China where more people died even if it wasn't ethnic cleansing

Or in Rhawanda, where the numbers were only limited because the entire Rhawandan population was only 5-6 million

Edit:: you make this out as if the idea is for people to come and RP jew hating mass murderers when in fact they would be ordinary, even morally upstanding, people who are just slaves to their circumstances. You want it to be transfered to some fantasy setting where the genocidal impact is far worse only except for how real it is (such as the one we happen to RP primary, which featured entire planets worth of genocide and ridiculously obvious Nazi parallels, yet there is still media written from the Empires perspective. FFS, people on this site play as evil mass murdering madmen) why is it all suddenly made OK when it's an allegory, where things such as this are bad cause they take place during an atrocity that, if I may remind you, isn't even happening in this AU, because Hitler is dead.
 
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Slamdingo

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Or, you know the purges Stalin conducted that became known as "Stalin's Terror" where anywhere from 600,000 to 1.2 million people are attributed to having been killed by the secret police, sent off to 'camps' to die, or just simply shot in raids for daring to be a perceived threat to Stalin's influence and power.

The numerous tribal genocides being waged in Africa.

Gays in the Middle East being strung up to hang from street signs or thrown from building tops.

You're right. Only Hitler was evil.


Again, look at this AU. The ****** is dead - six feet under and thankfully gone. He's not a focus of this literally at all at this point in the AU.
 

Tristar

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The Nazi party gassed millions in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, an atrocity that has not been seen in such scale before or since.

That is why this is in bad taste.

Why don't do this using a fictional race? Slam it into a video game setting, Warhammer or Halo? You can have band of brothers feel, but instead of basing this on real events you base it on the Middle Ages, or killing Orks, or killing Orks.

Basically Orks.

But seriously - most diverse RP that takes place in war, steers clear of playing on the same side as the axis for a good reason.
I'm not going to address this because both Jinan and Slamdingo have answered it for me, in a better way than I could have. Somehow the idea of gassing people is much more 'evil' or distasteful than death by a bullet or through forced labour doesn't make any sense. I purposefully avoided high fantasy themes such as warhammer and halo because it's a horse that's been beaten to death; everyone's done such an RP that it no longer feels impactfull. I also don't like high fantasy settings very much because it's harder to relate in the first place.

And in the beginning if you're so against mass murdering maniacs which you seem to imply the whole of Germany at that time was, why no hate towards the SBZ or Sith? It's like Jinan says, players have written far worse things in the actual RP with the only difference being that in this case it's based on historical events that have occurred. In fact, nothing of such magnitude has occurred in this AU. In this setting, Hitler had died, no Jews were killed due to racial policies and in fact I had planned to make a good number of the NPCs Jewish before you came along.

At least Germany had apologised and repaid the world for their transgressions several times over. Unlike China under Mao or the USSR had under Stalin for their own depraved actions (penal battalions, Stalin's purges etc.).

So no, I'm not going to make this high fantasy because if I wanted to I would. I'm trying to set up an RP in a familiar yet different setting and focus on a small group of individuals struggling through hardships of war as they progress from the period of confidence in a swift victory to despair as the war grinds to a halt in battles of attrition. My advise? Watch a series called Generation war.
 
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The Star of Chaos

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The Nazi party gassed millions in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, an atrocity that has not been seen in such scale before or since.

That is why this is in bad taste.

Why don't do this using a fictional race? Slam it into a video game setting, Warhammer or Halo? You can have band of brothers feel, but instead of basing this on real events you base it on the Middle Ages, or killing Orks, or killing Orks.

Basically Orks.

But seriously - most diverse RP that takes place in war, steers clear of playing on the same side as the axis for a good reason.

I'm half-Filipino. My mother lost family to the Japanese. They hung up my grandmother's cousin by a rope and bayoneted her to death and she was 14. The Americans killed her granduncle and his children when they occupied the country.

No power is innocent when it comes to these things. My family were Russian and Polish Jews. The Russian branch was exterminated in Pogroms carried out by the Tsar's Cossacks and the Polish branch of the family died in Auschwitz.

I personally cannot play a Wehmarcht soldier in this time period because it feels wrong to. But, I have a good friend who is German, whose grandfather served in the Wehrmacht. Until his dying day he had horrible guilt and remorse for having even fought under that banner. He was conscripted into it. He didn't want to serve, but he did it. He lived with that guilt until the day he died.

My thoughts are simple, if you want to do this and explore what it means to be a soldier doing their duty in a corrupt regime, then do so. But, it's wrong to ignore the fact that the Allied powers didn't have bloody hands as well. The Americans and British bombed whole German cities and razed parts of them to the ground. American bombers firebombed Tokyo and killed 100,000 people in a single day. The RAF and USAF destroyed 80% of Dresden. The Germans exterminated whole communities of innocent people. I know Tri and he is not a Nazi or a White-supremacist. He's not even white.

That's all for me.
 

Nor'baal

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For clarity - am I the one proposing this RP?
 

Nor'baal

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Or, you know the purges Stalin conducted that became known as "Stalin's Terror" where anywhere from 600,000 to 1.2 million people are attributed to having been killed by the secret police, sent off to 'camps' to die, or just simply shot in raids for daring to be a perceived threat to Stalin's influence and power.

The numerous tribal genocides being waged in Africa.

Gays in the Middle East being strung up to hang from street signs or thrown from building tops.

You're right. Only Hitler was evil.


Again, look at this AU. The ****** is dead - six feet under and thankfully gone. He's not a focus of this literally at all at this point in the AU.
I am not suggesting that we all form a nice little story telling group RPing out that though am I?

The point stands - I think this is in poor taste. If you want to do it fine, but honestly I think this is in very very poor taste.
 

Tristar

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@Nor'baal

Clarity: Nobody is suggesting or implying that you are proposing this RP. I take full responsibility for doing so. However the whole point of this discussion was to find out if there are any legitimate reasons why this should not go through- set in a fictional AU which mirrors some events in real history, playing through the eyes of controversial factions. This group isn't a story telling group on our characters taking part in genocides or ethnic cleansing, total opposite from it. I even purposefully tailored the scenario to avoid such a possibility.

It wasn't simply an activity of saying you feel offended by such an idea- and as @The Star of Chaos has explained, he has every bit more right to be offended but finds no qualms on the idea, so long as it is done in a respectful manner.

But I do respect your right to find this in poor taste and disapprove of such a concept- much like you find other Sith threads depicting other scenes of violence against humanity in poor taste, and protest against I am sure: planetary bombardment, innocent killings and other things to note. Given your lack of counter-arguments against both Slamdingo, Jinan and my reasons, as well as your previous message suggesting that we are allowed to do as we please, then I expect to see no other rebuttals if I continue with this interest thread along with the idea- from you, at the very least.

I am sincerely hoping this does not get thrashed by admins simply for being controversial, and hope for more interested individuals. If there are any questions I am more than happy to explain/discuss in detail.

@Jinan B , thanks for showing interest! You too, @Chask274 and @Slamdingo .
 

Kaane

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Tfw PC ruins everything

I personally might participate if my circumstances get better, it's an interesting idea.
 

Elijah Brockway

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I am not suggesting that we all form a nice little story telling group RPing out that though am I?

The point stands - I think this is in poor taste. If you want to do it fine, but honestly I think this is in very very poor taste.
As somebody who's played witness to some of the planning of this and has been watching this happen: None of them are suggesting they make a group RPing any of that stuff out that Slamdingo mentioned. I am, in fact, struggling to find any explanation for how it is that you can view it as though they're suggesting that when all the planning I've seen, as well as the initial post in this thread as well as all the explanations tristar has been giving specifically state that none of that is happening.

This is in an alternate universe. Hitler was killed early on. So too, I imagine, were the other ringleaders of the Holocaust, although that's not specifically stated. The Holocaust isn't even happening. Nobody will be RPing that. It's not a thing in the setting of this RP.

About the only differences between the setting of this RP and the setting of a WWI-based RP would be the fact that there are better weapons, tanks are a viable combat vehicle, and the Germans are Nazis fighting to reform an empire, rather than an empire under a Kaiser paying due to its obligations to allied powers.

Nobody is painting the Holocaust out like a good thing. Nobody is wanting to RP that, unlike how similar things have been RPed this timeline - the attacks on Saleucami, for instance, or the two temple bombings, killing large numbers of men, women, and children in both. Or a lot of other, similar actions. We see parallels to those genocides and war-crimes mentioned in the actual site RP, whereas it's been explicitly stated - multiple times - that no such thing is happening in the setting of this RP, and nobody in the RP is going to turn around and make it start happening (not just because they're generally good moral people, but also because they would be so villified immediately by the forum that they might as well be commiting SWRP suicide).

I don't know if it is physically possible to state any more plainly than it has already been stated that the Holocaust is not happening and that it won't happen. That Hitler is dead and his fellows who orchestrated the Holocaust probably are too. It's pretty blatantly obvious to see if you opened your eyes and looked past where it says "Deutschland Uber Alles" and "Kameraden, citizens of the Third Reich!" Which, really, I have no option but to assume is all you did and now you've really just been ignoring everything everybody else has been saying where they point out the differences in this AU that nullify all the worries you seem to be having, and instead sit here and say that this - and, let's be honest, it's not hard to extend it from the RP to the people partaking in it - is (are) distasteful.

For somebody as smart as you are, Norbs, what I've been seeing you say in here - coupled with what I can only assume is the purposeful refusal to read anything that doesn't support your viewpoint - is really quite depressing.
 

Nor'baal

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We can discuss the purported innocence of the Wehrmacht until the cows come home.

Point is - I think this is in pour taste, but I'm not in a position to stop it. Just because I disagree doesn't stop you.
 

GABA

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No one's forcing anyone to participate in this thread, so if its something that does interest you, there is no need to continue to post in here.

Otherwise, I cannot find any malicious intent behind RPing an alternative history story during WWII that @Tristar has proposed. Carry on.
 
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