New Timeline: Dawn of the Republic

[Ser Gregor]

The one real-life culture I'd compare Mandalorians to would be Anglo-Saxon and the Norse ("Viking") Germanic cultures.

This is no more true than comparing them to Klingons. Mandalorians have few real-world analogues and the ones that do exist are imperfect. First and foremost they are a culture built around war and conflict. There is no real-world parallel for that. The closest we get are cultures with prominent warrior sub-cultures, such as ancient Sparta, Japan during the Sengoku Jidai, and the Mexica of the Aztec civilization. Each of these examples had an elevated class(es) of professional warriors that participated in rather regularized, and in some cases ritualized, warfare. None of them were based on conquest, however. The Anglo-Saxon and Norse peoples did not have prominent professional warriors. Their warriors were farmers, which is one of the reasons why Vikinger raids happened on a seasonal basis (never during the winter, and usually between the planting and harvesting seasons when the farming workload had lightened).

 

[Saul]

Not really. They've been allied often, yes. But they've never actually been integrated into a faction. And there are plenty of times both in Canon and in Legends where they have been out for their own gain or just straight neutral.

The only time they acted for their own gain, they got stomped by the Sith Imperium. I think that was the only thing people who didn't play Mandalorians remember about them, anyways, because otherwise they were unmemorable because they kow-towed to the Sith and followed them everywhere; the only ones worse were the Chiss. They were designed to be main factions but most of the time they acted like sub-factions.

 

[Outlander]

The only time they acted for their own gain, they got stomped by the Sith Imperium. I think that was the only thing people who didn't play Mandalorians remember about them, anyways, because otherwise they were unmemorable because they kow-towed to the Sith and followed them everywhere; the only ones worse were the Chiss. They were designed to be main factions but most of the time they acted like sub-factions.

On the site, yes. They absolutely should not be a main. However, they shouldn't be a sub of an existing faction. An indie would work much better.

 

[Saul]

This is no more true than comparing them to Klingons. Mandalorians have few real-world analogues and the ones that do exist are imperfect. First and foremost they are a culture built around war and conflict. There is no real-world parallel for that. The closest we get are cultures with prominent warrior sub-cultures, such as ancient Sparta, Japan during the Sengoku Jidai, and the Mexica of the Aztec civilization. Each of these examples had an elevated class(es) of professional warriors that participated in rather regularized, and in some cases ritualized, warfare. None of them were based on conquest, however. The Anglo-Saxon and Norse peoples did not have prominent professional warriors. Their warriors were farmers, which is one of the reasons why Vikinger raids happened on a seasonal basis (never during the winter, and usually between the planting and harvesting seasons when the farming workload had lightened).

You mean Japan during Pax Tokugawa. Sengoku Jidai was bloody and honorless. The samurai of the era were romanticized during 200 peaceful years that came after; warriors don't actually have time for poetry. There was a reason that the Daimyo didn't kill Tokugawa's servant in 47 Ronin - it's because he barely knew how to handle a sword.

 

[Ser Gregor]

You mean Japan during Pax Tokugawa. Sengoku Jidai was bloody and honorless. The samurai of the era were romanticized during 200 peaceful years that came after; warriors don't actually have time for poetry. There was a reason that the Daimyo didn't kill Tokugawa's servant in 47 Ronin - it's because he barely knew how to handle a sword.

Yes and no. The Mandalorians, to me, aren't honorable, and reflect the reality of the various samurai clans during the Sengoku Jidai. The Samurai of the Sengoku Jidai as viewed through 200 years of peaceful romanticism are essentially Jedi.

 

[Silverface]

The Anglo-Saxon and Norse peoples did not have prominent professional warriors. Their warriors were farmers, which is one of the reasons why Vikinger raids happened on a seasonal basis (never during the winter, and usually between the planting and harvesting seasons when the farming workload had lightened).

And this is the closest correlation between real life and the Mandalorians. The ( Legends ) Mandalorians are a warrior centric culture, yes, but they're part-time soldiers for the majority. They're basically a extremely well trained and well equipped milita that, when not fighting, is tending to their homeward lives. There are of course exceptions to this.

Klingons are still a very poor comparison though. I can understand why someone would go "Ooooh, like Klingons, yeah", due to the whole "space warrior centric race" thing.


Either way, whatever this timeline think tank comes up with, I'm going to work with it.

Also, @Ser Gregor, you're damn right the Mandalorians aren't honourable. They're barbaric raiders with an unhealthy focus on asserting themselves on the galactic stage with violence ( or non-violence when the New Mandalorians rolled about, but that lasted all of a decade ). They pillage, loot and measure glory by the toughness of the foes they fight and the amount of blood they had to shed to secure victory. Honour, as a concept, has no place with Mandalorians. They're not Wookiees, or Nohgri, or Togorians or the myriad of other honour-bound races.

But much like the Danes of 900AD+ ( the era of catastrophic viking raiding where England was basically hurled back a few hundred years culturally due to all their centers of learning, churches and monastaries, getting raided and burned down), they've got a vibrant home culture behind that barbaric facade. That's the comparison most of us are making.

 

[Kiro]

The only time they acted for their own gain, they got stomped by the Sith Imperium. I think that was the only thing people who didn't play Mandalorians remember about them, anyways, because otherwise they were unmemorable because they kow-towed to the Sith and followed them everywhere; the only ones worse were the Chiss. They were designed to be main factions but most of the time they acted like sub-factions.

Yeah, everyone's so keen to forget that it was the Mandalorians that invaded the Core and brought about the downfall of the Galactic Alliance, with the Sith FOLLOWING the Mandos and claiming the glory.

 

[Green Ranger]

Can we not do this Mando ego-stroking thing? Thanks.

 

[Richie B.]

Not to start a debate, but this is the reason why the mandalorians have a bad image, no one could figure out what they should be like. And this leads to people arguing, so I suggest everyone here just drop it as there is no point and is cluttering this thread.

 

[Silverface]

Tl;dr: New timeline Mandalorians are hopefully going to be an interesting and well defined twist on what was done before. That is all we need agree on. Mandalorians in the timeline gone by were a mess and that's also something we can all agree on.

Onwards to laughing at silly people in robes with glowing sticks!

 

[Saul]

Thank god for think tanks. Consultative Leninism > Democracy, amirite?

 

[Jake]

I always felt the Mandalorians were more like a reskinned Mongol culture, personally. The way they were RP'd here and written by Karen Traviss really changed that thematic flavor though.

 

[Nor'baal]

I am sure the think tank will provide a balanced and well reasoned response and basis for everyone's Mando needs.

Anyway - will there be any 'Lana style' characters in this new timeline? Aka - admin controlled legacy characters?

 

[Green Ranger]

Anyway - will there be any 'Lana style' characters in this new timeline? Aka - admin controlled legacy characters?

We have zero plans for anything like that at all.

 

[Nor'baal]

This brings me happiness.

 

[Ral]

Not to start a debate, but this is the reason why the mandalorians have a bad image, no one could figure out what they should be like. And this leads to people arguing, so I suggest everyone here just drop it as there is no point and is cluttering this thread.

No, that's not why. It doesn't help sure, but a healthy discussion was never a problem (see the thread Horizon started). The problem is as Boli calls it, the "(F)ando ego-stroking" where they start bragging about how good they are, or were, or whatever. Then people go "lolno" and then the Mandos go "lolyes" and so on in various derivations. Also, this thread is 33 pages long, it's already fairly cluttered man.

I am sure the think tank will provide a balanced and well reasoned response and basis for everyone's Mando needs.

If you mean catering to that super niche Mando Stripper Need, then yes, I'm sure the think tank will be balanced and well-reasoned :P

 

[Jax Vos]

Klingons are as close to Mandalorians as Teletubbies are to Godzilla. In other words, not at all.

The one real-life culture I'd compare Mandalorians to would be Anglo-Saxon and the Norse ("Viking") Germanic cultures. They're as close to Mandalorian as you're gonna get outside Star Wars. Using Klingons as a comparison is a horrible idea. They're a species that has a horribly corrupt political system that governs everything, extremely religious, and just... yeah, not a good comparison at all.

Would you have preferred I use the Romulans? At least the Klingons have a culture based on honor which is closer to the Mandalorians. My focus was cultural, not political. Additionally both of your "real-world" comparisons were very religious. You can use much of Klingon culture which is based mostly on war with additional castes. That type of culture is not hard to reconstruct with less of an easily provoked mentality. And I wasn't saying to use the Klingon style extensively, I was looking at caste structure which can work with the Mandalorians when combined with the basic information remaining in canon.

A better comparison of the Klingons with a Star Wars culture would be the Sith species after the Jen'ari mixing, and going all the way up to Naga Shadow that comparison could still stand, minus the honor part. But even that isn't a good comparison.

To sum up, all I was trying to say was that I would use the concept of a war culture with a caste system, based upon honor. I was not intending to make a comparison in regards to political or religious systems. In fact I wasn't even making a comparison, I was using the war culture as a basis for how to construct a Mandalorian inde faction.

 

[Saul]

I feel like people are talking past each other here and the productivity and contructivism of this chat has deteriorated. Simply put, either the think tank will develop Mandalorian culture, or it won't. If they don't, then the community will create it once the timeline is launched. If people are on the think tank to write it up specifically, it's because they were thought highly of by the staff. There's plenty of feedback already about Mandalorians, there's enough canon to go off of, and at this point we're just flinging feces at each other like chimps.

 

[Ral]

I have an idea. May be sort of radical, so bear with me. What if we make the Mandos a culture something that's rather unique and original and interesting instead of just [insert culture/group here] and drawing comparisons?

 

[Green Ranger]

Maybe you guys should make a dedicated thread about Mandos in the DOTR planning board so we can keep this on topic.