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- Sep 24, 2017
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So I had some time off today and I was browsing the forums; I ended up reading a lot of pretty uh.... pointed OOC threads dealing with pvp arguments, as well as a rather heated debate about Pvp in general from an old Rp Feedback board. Now I have straight up zero investment in this argument as well as no real opinion (heck I have yet to even make single a story post), so I’m certainly not here to add another voice to the bonfire (because more uneducated and foundless claims are exactly what every argument needs!), but I thought I might aswell offer up something while I have nothing better to do. So without further ado I present a rambling idea on a possible alternative (alternative being the operative word, this is not meant to be a replacement in any way):
Pvp rolls
Before this is immediately shot down as being idiotic (which it very well may still be), just hear me out.
I don’t mean a D&d like system where everyone writes out character sheets and the game descends into a glorified pathfinder campaign in outer space, but instead a simple to use random chance system based on people’s general level of skill. I feel like this would solve a ton of the issues I perceive (emphasis on the “I”, this might very well not be a big deal at all), such as people arguing over hits and/or descending into OOC squabbles over the physics of a proton torpedo.
The system I propose would simply be a 1-15 PL system where each player has a general PL (Power Level), based on their character’s ability. Then, for any attack action, whether it be a gunslinger rushing forward and blasting away with a handheld blaster pistol, or a darth lord tossing forward his saber in a looping chop, the attacking player makes a PL-20 roll against a PL-20 roll made by the defender, and if the attacker wins, their attack “hits” and the defender loses one HP; if they lose the defender defends and nothing happens (defender’s win ties). Once one player falls under their total HP they are out (note this does not mean they are dead or unconscious, it just mean the fight is decided and they have lost). Its simple, quick, and easy.
Before I go on, let's back up for a second because there are a number of things in that last paragraph I want to explain further. First of all, what exactly would be the rankings of these “PLs” be? Well here is a quick write up based off the Jedi/republic, it is by no means complete or even remotely balanced, but it does give a general idea of what I’m talking about.
PL 0 - Random Civilian
PL 1 -Random Thug/Young Jedi Youngling (Ages ~6-~7)
PL 2 - Random Soldier/ Experienced Jedi youngling (Ages ~7-~11)
PL 3 - Experienced Foot Soldier/Veteran Jedi Youngling (Ages ~11-~14)
PL 4 - Veteran Foot Soldier/Young Jedi Padawan
PL 5 - Heroic Foot Soldier/Experienced Jedi Padawan
PL 6 - Legend Foot Soldier/Veteran Jedi Padawan/Young Jedi Knight
PL 7 - Godly Foot Soldier/Hardened Jedi Knight
PL 8 - Experienced Jedi Knight
PL 9 - Veteran Jedi Knight
PL 10 - Heroic Jedi Knight/Young Jedi Master
PL 11 - Hardened Jedi Master
PL 12 - Experienced Jedi Master
PL 13 - Veteran Jedi Master
PL 14 - Heroic Jedi Master
PL 15 - Pinnacle of mortal possibility
Notice how the non-force users generally stop about PL 7, less than half the possible advancement of a force user. The reasoning behind this is simple: force users, Jedi and Sith in particular, are straight up more powerful in combat than non force users (With the exception of some Mandalorians and other special cases, but remember this chart only has info about republic forces), they simply have too many advantages. Heck, in Revenge of the Sith we see a Jedi Padawan of about 10-15 (being generous) years of age, take on a group of approximately nine 501st clone troopers and kill six of them before going down (
). Remember these are the same clone troopers that were supposedly some of the most trained soldiers in the galaxy in that time period. Also remember PLs are not sure fire victories, a regular random thug could still beat a Jedi knight if they rolled well enough, it is just incredibly rare (as it probably should be).
Now a second thing I want to go back to is the concept of being “hit”. Being hit doesn’t necessarily mean suddenly one of your arms is chopped off, it simply means you are disadvantaged in some way; maybe you are able to duck under the Sith’s blazing sabre but in the process you are knocked off your feet; maybe you brought your own sabre up to deflect but in doing so you leave a large part of your defense open for exploitation; or maybe you jumped back but the flashing sabre caught across your chest and left a painful scorched mark running across your midsection nearly forcing you to double over in pain. Every time you get “hit” you give up an advantage in the fight, if you keep on getting hit and your opponent is going hit free, you will eventually lose. In this way a battle can still be relatively open to rp, but still be host to character's general ability as well as some aspects of random chance.
Your HP is the limit to the total number of hits you can take before the battle is decided, think of it as the number of disadvantages you can accumulate before the battle has been won. You may not be dead on the floor, but if you are backed up against a wall with your chest scorched, ankle sprained, and a lightsabre pressed against your neck the fight is over. Your HP is 2 plus a third of your PL, rounded up.
So with that all mostly cleared up, what would the flow of combat be like? Well, pretty much the same as now. The first person acting, let's call them the attacker, writes out their action/what they intend their action to do and then proceeds to roll their dice (maybe over discord or something? Again, this is just a general outline, the exacts would still need to be hammered down). The second player, let's call them the defender would then roll their defense roll and write out how and what happens based on the attack. The defender then writes out their own attack and rolls much like the attacker did the first round. The Attacker, now rolls their dice to defend and blah blah blah the cycle keeps on going.
In the end it would go something like this:
Player 1: “Lord Maline stepped forward with a grim smile. He could already imagine the young Jedi’s face as his blade buried itself deeply in her breast. The dawning realisation of her own demise. The light leaving her eyes. Perhaps a jerking cough as her body tried futilely to draw in one last breath. The mental image was tantalizing, a sweet fruit just calling to be pursued, he stowed it away for now. Though he doubted the Jedi brat would give him much trouble, he had learned long ago to not let his hungers displace common sense. Better to be alert and ready and perhaps lose out on some delicious morsel of feeling, then to be slobbering over a fictional daydream like a rodan dog as a knife was stabbed in his back.
“Today you die Jedi” He hissed through his rebreather, the words echoing in the voluminous room.
With that he made a sharp lunge, jabbing his humming sabre up in a scything arc and bringing it down towards the girl’s face.
Roll: 9-20 = 14
Player 2:
Roll: 4-20 = 13
Hit. -1 HP
HP=2/3
“Teresa took a shaky few steps back as the Sith approached her.
Her right hand clasped her sabre tightly, but in the face of the looming monster, the small green blade that, according to her master, hummed like meadows on an autumn day, felt like little more than a toothpick.
After another few steps backwards she felt her back bump into the cold stone wall of the training room.
Shit Shit Shit Shit Shit
She could barely think straight, her mind was a mess of blind terror and mortal fear.
Her Master once told her a story about a small Drumban Deer she had seen on Redus IV. The poor thing had been surrounded by a pack of Redus Night Stalkers and separated from its herd. Her Master had said that the poor thing hadn’t tried to run, or even fight, instead it froze as if it was already dead. It just stood their silently, even as one of the Stalkers started tearing off it’s hind leg.
At the time Teresa had thought the thing stupid. If it was going to die anyway, why not go down with a fight? Maybe gouge out an eye or two with a hoof or something.
Now she understood.
In the face of death, the only thing her mind could do was try and figure out how to live, but nothing she could think of would save her. So instead she did the only option left: nothing. She was that deer, but what she faced was not a band of Night Stalkers it was something much much worse.
The darkly robed man took a few more steps forward. He was cloaked in black cloth, the long folds concealing all but his gauntleted hands and skeletal face. In his right hand he held out a gleaming crimson sabre that sputtered menacingly as it momentarily touched the tiled floor.
“Today you die Jedi” he said. His voice was muffled by the parasite like metallic mask that hung across the lower half of his face, yet still Teresa could make out an almost sickly cadence to it, like a mother crooning to her child. It was just… Wrong.
She barely had more time to contemplate the disturbing tone before the cloaked Sith leaped towards her, sabre flashing upwards in a lethal slash.
She raised her sabre in a desperate upward block, managing to catch the blade on the edge of her own in a flash of sparks, but it was still not enough. The upper edge of her opponent's sword bit deeply into her upper shoulder, burning away the thick woolen robe and blackening the flesh underneath.
She nearly cried out as the pain hit her a second later.
Tears flowing to her eyes she was only just able to shove the man’s crimson blade away before it took her entire arm. In desperation she jammed her shoulder forward into the man’s chest attempting to somehow push him away.
Roll:4-20 = 18
And then Player 2 would go again, rolling for defence then rolling for attack. Get the picture?
Now would this be used for everything? Of course not. There are a lot of circumstances where this system just wouldn’t work in the first place/be more trouble than it’s worth. This system is not meant as an all out replacement for Pvp, but instead an enhancement, a way to avoid needless OOC fights with a simple easy to use alternative or as a way to organize large scale Pvp threads. If you wanted to do a normal pre planned theatrical fight, do a normal pre planned theatrical fight. If you want to do a logic based regular PvP thread, do a logic based regular PvP thread. This is just meant to be an alternative option.
This system is also made to be tweaked if things don’t quite make sense. Say if you are playing a Jedi master who has never used a lightsaber a day in your life. Obviously you wouldn’t be rolling your normal ~12PL attack, you could decide to use something lower. If some attack is truly unavoidable, just don’t have a roll. If you guys mutually decide you want a fight to go a certain way together, discard the rolls and just start doing a theatrical battle. It is really quite open.
Ok, that's my rambling done. What do you guys think? Is this a terrible idea that should be thrown into a deep dark hole and never thought of again? Have I missed some large aspect of PvP which makes this completely useless/terrible (very possible)? Again this is a pretty rough draft, but feel free to criticize it anyway, I promise I won’t be offended, this is 30min of work, not my child. Have fun!
(Also P.S Sorry about the shoddy spelling/grammar/formatting)
Pvp rolls
Before this is immediately shot down as being idiotic (which it very well may still be), just hear me out.
I don’t mean a D&d like system where everyone writes out character sheets and the game descends into a glorified pathfinder campaign in outer space, but instead a simple to use random chance system based on people’s general level of skill. I feel like this would solve a ton of the issues I perceive (emphasis on the “I”, this might very well not be a big deal at all), such as people arguing over hits and/or descending into OOC squabbles over the physics of a proton torpedo.
The system I propose would simply be a 1-15 PL system where each player has a general PL (Power Level), based on their character’s ability. Then, for any attack action, whether it be a gunslinger rushing forward and blasting away with a handheld blaster pistol, or a darth lord tossing forward his saber in a looping chop, the attacking player makes a PL-20 roll against a PL-20 roll made by the defender, and if the attacker wins, their attack “hits” and the defender loses one HP; if they lose the defender defends and nothing happens (defender’s win ties). Once one player falls under their total HP they are out (note this does not mean they are dead or unconscious, it just mean the fight is decided and they have lost). Its simple, quick, and easy.
Before I go on, let's back up for a second because there are a number of things in that last paragraph I want to explain further. First of all, what exactly would be the rankings of these “PLs” be? Well here is a quick write up based off the Jedi/republic, it is by no means complete or even remotely balanced, but it does give a general idea of what I’m talking about.
PL 0 - Random Civilian
PL 1 -Random Thug/Young Jedi Youngling (Ages ~6-~7)
PL 2 - Random Soldier/ Experienced Jedi youngling (Ages ~7-~11)
PL 3 - Experienced Foot Soldier/Veteran Jedi Youngling (Ages ~11-~14)
PL 4 - Veteran Foot Soldier/Young Jedi Padawan
PL 5 - Heroic Foot Soldier/Experienced Jedi Padawan
PL 6 - Legend Foot Soldier/Veteran Jedi Padawan/Young Jedi Knight
PL 7 - Godly Foot Soldier/Hardened Jedi Knight
PL 8 - Experienced Jedi Knight
PL 9 - Veteran Jedi Knight
PL 10 - Heroic Jedi Knight/Young Jedi Master
PL 11 - Hardened Jedi Master
PL 12 - Experienced Jedi Master
PL 13 - Veteran Jedi Master
PL 14 - Heroic Jedi Master
PL 15 - Pinnacle of mortal possibility
Notice how the non-force users generally stop about PL 7, less than half the possible advancement of a force user. The reasoning behind this is simple: force users, Jedi and Sith in particular, are straight up more powerful in combat than non force users (With the exception of some Mandalorians and other special cases, but remember this chart only has info about republic forces), they simply have too many advantages. Heck, in Revenge of the Sith we see a Jedi Padawan of about 10-15 (being generous) years of age, take on a group of approximately nine 501st clone troopers and kill six of them before going down (
Now a second thing I want to go back to is the concept of being “hit”. Being hit doesn’t necessarily mean suddenly one of your arms is chopped off, it simply means you are disadvantaged in some way; maybe you are able to duck under the Sith’s blazing sabre but in the process you are knocked off your feet; maybe you brought your own sabre up to deflect but in doing so you leave a large part of your defense open for exploitation; or maybe you jumped back but the flashing sabre caught across your chest and left a painful scorched mark running across your midsection nearly forcing you to double over in pain. Every time you get “hit” you give up an advantage in the fight, if you keep on getting hit and your opponent is going hit free, you will eventually lose. In this way a battle can still be relatively open to rp, but still be host to character's general ability as well as some aspects of random chance.
Your HP is the limit to the total number of hits you can take before the battle is decided, think of it as the number of disadvantages you can accumulate before the battle has been won. You may not be dead on the floor, but if you are backed up against a wall with your chest scorched, ankle sprained, and a lightsabre pressed against your neck the fight is over. Your HP is 2 plus a third of your PL, rounded up.
So with that all mostly cleared up, what would the flow of combat be like? Well, pretty much the same as now. The first person acting, let's call them the attacker, writes out their action/what they intend their action to do and then proceeds to roll their dice (maybe over discord or something? Again, this is just a general outline, the exacts would still need to be hammered down). The second player, let's call them the defender would then roll their defense roll and write out how and what happens based on the attack. The defender then writes out their own attack and rolls much like the attacker did the first round. The Attacker, now rolls their dice to defend and blah blah blah the cycle keeps on going.
In the end it would go something like this:
Player 1: “Lord Maline stepped forward with a grim smile. He could already imagine the young Jedi’s face as his blade buried itself deeply in her breast. The dawning realisation of her own demise. The light leaving her eyes. Perhaps a jerking cough as her body tried futilely to draw in one last breath. The mental image was tantalizing, a sweet fruit just calling to be pursued, he stowed it away for now. Though he doubted the Jedi brat would give him much trouble, he had learned long ago to not let his hungers displace common sense. Better to be alert and ready and perhaps lose out on some delicious morsel of feeling, then to be slobbering over a fictional daydream like a rodan dog as a knife was stabbed in his back.
“Today you die Jedi” He hissed through his rebreather, the words echoing in the voluminous room.
With that he made a sharp lunge, jabbing his humming sabre up in a scything arc and bringing it down towards the girl’s face.
Roll: 9-20 = 14
Player 2:
Roll: 4-20 = 13
Hit. -1 HP
HP=2/3
“Teresa took a shaky few steps back as the Sith approached her.
Her right hand clasped her sabre tightly, but in the face of the looming monster, the small green blade that, according to her master, hummed like meadows on an autumn day, felt like little more than a toothpick.
After another few steps backwards she felt her back bump into the cold stone wall of the training room.
Shit Shit Shit Shit Shit
She could barely think straight, her mind was a mess of blind terror and mortal fear.
Her Master once told her a story about a small Drumban Deer she had seen on Redus IV. The poor thing had been surrounded by a pack of Redus Night Stalkers and separated from its herd. Her Master had said that the poor thing hadn’t tried to run, or even fight, instead it froze as if it was already dead. It just stood their silently, even as one of the Stalkers started tearing off it’s hind leg.
At the time Teresa had thought the thing stupid. If it was going to die anyway, why not go down with a fight? Maybe gouge out an eye or two with a hoof or something.
Now she understood.
In the face of death, the only thing her mind could do was try and figure out how to live, but nothing she could think of would save her. So instead she did the only option left: nothing. She was that deer, but what she faced was not a band of Night Stalkers it was something much much worse.
The darkly robed man took a few more steps forward. He was cloaked in black cloth, the long folds concealing all but his gauntleted hands and skeletal face. In his right hand he held out a gleaming crimson sabre that sputtered menacingly as it momentarily touched the tiled floor.
“Today you die Jedi” he said. His voice was muffled by the parasite like metallic mask that hung across the lower half of his face, yet still Teresa could make out an almost sickly cadence to it, like a mother crooning to her child. It was just… Wrong.
She barely had more time to contemplate the disturbing tone before the cloaked Sith leaped towards her, sabre flashing upwards in a lethal slash.
She raised her sabre in a desperate upward block, managing to catch the blade on the edge of her own in a flash of sparks, but it was still not enough. The upper edge of her opponent's sword bit deeply into her upper shoulder, burning away the thick woolen robe and blackening the flesh underneath.
She nearly cried out as the pain hit her a second later.
Tears flowing to her eyes she was only just able to shove the man’s crimson blade away before it took her entire arm. In desperation she jammed her shoulder forward into the man’s chest attempting to somehow push him away.
Roll:4-20 = 18
And then Player 2 would go again, rolling for defence then rolling for attack. Get the picture?
Now would this be used for everything? Of course not. There are a lot of circumstances where this system just wouldn’t work in the first place/be more trouble than it’s worth. This system is not meant as an all out replacement for Pvp, but instead an enhancement, a way to avoid needless OOC fights with a simple easy to use alternative or as a way to organize large scale Pvp threads. If you wanted to do a normal pre planned theatrical fight, do a normal pre planned theatrical fight. If you want to do a logic based regular PvP thread, do a logic based regular PvP thread. This is just meant to be an alternative option.
This system is also made to be tweaked if things don’t quite make sense. Say if you are playing a Jedi master who has never used a lightsaber a day in your life. Obviously you wouldn’t be rolling your normal ~12PL attack, you could decide to use something lower. If some attack is truly unavoidable, just don’t have a roll. If you guys mutually decide you want a fight to go a certain way together, discard the rolls and just start doing a theatrical battle. It is really quite open.
Ok, that's my rambling done. What do you guys think? Is this a terrible idea that should be thrown into a deep dark hole and never thought of again? Have I missed some large aspect of PvP which makes this completely useless/terrible (very possible)? Again this is a pretty rough draft, but feel free to criticize it anyway, I promise I won’t be offended, this is 30min of work, not my child. Have fun!
(Also P.S Sorry about the shoddy spelling/grammar/formatting)
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