The Force Awakens - Thoughts and Reactions (SPOILERS WITHIN)

Brandon Rhea

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We already have a Skywalker: Ben Solo. He might not have the name but he has the blood. TFA really pushed that with his reverence to his grandfather. Wouldn't be so much interesting for the sequel trilogy ultimately to be his story instead of Rey's? I think so personally. It seems cheap for Rey to be Luke's daughter now that we've already had two father/offspring reveals. It would be too easy and not innovative like the these next two installments are going to need to be. I really hope Rey isn't a Skywalker at all. It would sort of take away from the point you've made elsewhere in the thread, that anyone can use the Force if they put into the effort. Also if she really is just some girl on Jakku, with her own history and her struggles to overcome, that broadens the universe like these new films should be doing.
Ben is a Skywalker by blood, but he's not Ben Skywalker. The filmmakers will undoubtedly want the Skywalker name to continue on.

The original trilogy was also Darth Vader's story, in a way. He provided the arc, while Luke was in the forefront with his story. I'd imagine Rey and Kylo interacting in much the same way.
 

Vulpes

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With Luke presumably being more skilled in the Force by this point, do you guys think that the destruction of the Hosnian System affected him in some way to want to leave his hermitage? Similar to Obi-Wan feeling the disturbance when Alderaan was destroyed?

Rey possibly being Luke's daughter is a very popular theory right now. Any speculation on who her Mother may be? Another Jedi/Force User maybe? Is Kylo weaker in the Force because Leia is untrained, or because Han wasn't FS? Any ideas on what really makes Rey stronger?

With the reformation of the Jedi Order, at least even temporarily, under Skywalker, do you guys think some of the survivors of Order 66/new Jedi were part of the re-establishment? I doubt we'll even hear mention of Ahsoka, Kanan, or Ezra in the films, but perhaps in Expanded Universe? Granted Ahsoka and Kanan would definitely be older than Luke. Even if their story is on-going, it'd be interesting to see where they ended up after the Rebellion became the Republic.
 

Brandon Rhea

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With Luke presumably being more skilled in the Force by this point, do you guys think that the destruction of the Hosnian System affected him in some way to want to leave his hermitage? Similar to Obi-Wan feeling the disturbance when Alderaan was destroyed?
Probably, but I think she'd have a sense of guilt over it and might still think "if I come back, even worse things will happen."

Or he'll take Rey's arrival as a sign that it's time for him to come back. Could go either way.

Rey possibly being Luke's daughter is a very popular theory right now. Any speculation on who her Mother may be? Another Jedi/Force User maybe?

A theory I've heard, which I think is interesting, is that she could be Obi-Wan's daughter. That would make Rey not only Anakin's granddaughter, but Obi-Wan's too.

Is Kylo weaker in the Force because Leia is untrained, or because Han wasn't FS? Any ideas on what really makes Rey stronger?

Leia being less trained and Han being a normal wouldn't really be a factor. Luke is one of the greatest Jedi in history, but his mother was not Force-sensitive.

With the reformation of the Jedi Order, at least even temporarily, under Skywalker, do you guys think some of the survivors of Order 66/new Jedi were part of the re-establishment? I doubt we'll even hear mention of Ahsoka, Kanan, or Ezra in the films, but perhaps in Expanded Universe? Granted Ahsoka and Kanan would definitely be older than Luke. Even if their story is on-going, it'd be interesting to see where they ended up after the Rebellion became the Republic.

I hope not! I've always preferred the idea that by the end of ROTJ, Luke really was the last Jedi.
 

Marcus

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Do we know who Sydow is? I had his wonky idea he's old Kanan, but that's a far toss.
 

Vulpes

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I definitely do
Do we know who Sydow is? I had his wonky idea he's old Kanan, but that's a far toss.
Just looked it up, and I gotta say, I learned a bit more than I thought I would. I completely forgot to look up who the hell the old guy was.
 

BLADE

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[EXT. A BETTER STATE THAN YOU LIVE

INT. A DEVASTATINGLY HANDSOME MAN WHO IS MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU SITS AT HIS COMPUTER. HE IS PROSPERO AND HE HAS WATCHED THE NEW STAR WARS.]

It was Tuesday. My day had consisted of meetings and an attempt to decide if "savage" was always good slang to have directed at you (interns are never wholly demonstrative when it comes to their argot.) Time stretched out like a buckwheat noodle, salted with the glutenous possibility of nothingness and everything in between... I might have been feeling a bit hungry. My wife called me. Her sister had a date. She wasn't too sure how she felt about the guy (joke about women here) so my wife insinuated that we might come along as protectors of her chastity. In modern society we call this a double date.

It's a euphemism of course for the commingling of two completely disparate couples into an integument of compromises, ressentiments and --really Brad, you fucking got two apps and you think the check should be split equally? I hope you burn in hell.

I had nothing better to do that didn't involve my beloved hellspawn children, so I acquiesced. Let it never be said that a physician cannot draw as subtle a poison as any haruspice.

"So we're going to see Star Wars."

I stared at my phone. How did I feel about it? I mean I knew it was on and I had made a promise not to go see it. Not of any Albigensian whimsy or some kind of puritan posturing, but simply because it looked terribly boring. I had in fact convinced my wife to watch several other films the preceding week (Krampus --delightfullly shlocky-- Spotlight --limited but earnest-- and Spectre --Sam Smith sings badly.)

With customary grace, I acceded. I would see Star Wars and it would see me.

We chose the Thornton Cinebarre. Both locales --the city itself-- and the --movie theater-- are the kind of petri dishes of superannuated whiteness that is the ur-demographic for Star Wars. On the drive over Wadsworth I saw people pale enough to pass for Kaminoans (your requisite Star Wars reference, fuck off.) Cinebarre in particular at least partly redeems itself by choosing the freshest grass-fed cow to slaughter, grind, and put on a bun. The chairs are also squishy.

I like squishy chairs.

Costumes had petered out; the true faithful had already caught the movie on Saturday, but there were a few straggling superfans, sort of waylaid pilgrims in the Camino de Santiago that had shown up in Twi'lek muffin tops, and Corellian beer bellies. One gentleman struggled with a Big Gulp™ and some kind of epoxy he'd bought at ACE after some emphatic gesticulating with his lightsaber (which was in no way a phallic signifier) had gotten out of hand (is this even a pun? I care not.) He needn't have bothered; a bin was set up for "weapons" (the theater owner, in contravention of most other locales in the area did however allow "blasters" PEW PEW PEW) which at least one antediluvian Styx fan with a padawan rat-braid grudgingly made use of.

A woman taller than me (and I am ninety-percent osteoporis and stork legs) with a terrifyingly hirsute face and a vague weary sort of agelessness to her nearly popped out of her Jango Fett costume when she was forced to deposit some "toxic darts" into said bin.

I looked at a menu.

Choices were to be made

The Cineburger had changed recently. Whereas an impish serrano aioli had previously topped the oblong temple to that most majestic of creatures --the American cow-- now the mediocrity of chipotle mayo had snuck in. What was this? Peoria? Chipotle mayo was an invention by the white mang as insulting to Mexican culture as any form of colonialism. Rumor had it that Kory, the new agey chef who had moved from Seattle (really Tacoma, but Seattle sounds cooler I suppose) had gotten arrogant and lazy in his attempts to broaden the menu's appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I looked dubiously at pictures of a perfectly broiled beef patty lathered with pepper throw-up sauce made from the tears of Avantine eggs.

The food styling, previously realistic and gritty looked fake. The tomato, wooden and bland, not succulent and hothousey. I was relatively certain the lettuce had been replaced with Hayden Christensen (in fairness even iceberg lettuce had more personality.)

Still, I had no desire for starters, and I am a bit of a purist when it comes to gastropub-y food. My wife if you are wondering ordered the Pamburger (some kind of bean burger I AM SO ASHAMED.)

We were led to a spacious room that looked half like the CBGB and half like an electropop abattoir. I ordered a peppery, tannic Zinfandel to go with my shame-burger. My wife abstained (THE SHAME THE SHAME.) My sister in law and her future beau had lemonade, IIRC (I love my sister-in-law, but she's a hateful grad student so I literally expect her to be Hitler.)

Something like halon gas poured into the room as Epoxy Man squirmed into his chair. The sound of someone farting all over your grandmother's plastic covered upholstery filled the room.

I ordered more wine.

When the logos began to come on, one of the sound channels was gone. Literally gone. A tinny sound filled the room.

I cared not. My burger arrived. Glistening with meat juices, speared on the ancient confluence of man and animal, where fire released nutrients and the promise of CRUUUUUUUUUUUST.

The chipotle mayo was also on the side because fuck chipotle mayo.

My wife smiled at me in her wife-like way; think Molly Bloom meets any daytime TV host. I shrugged and at least decided to try the chipotle mayo. Reaching into the plastic container where it sat red and listless like a jellyfish that had just committed double homicide, I dabbed some on my finger. I tasted it.

MERCIFUL GODS WHAT WAS THAT SHIT?

I hurled the container at the Epoxy Mang with a savagery and power that Jon Lester would have approved of. Luckily the usheress was not around (Cinebarre has a long and involuted code of conduct; I told you this place was REALLY white.) Epoxy Mang blinked.

The great Argentinean poet Borges wrote that time is a river, on whose banks we crest, and whose self-same shape consubstantiates into a tiger of the spirit of the flesh, devouring all in its path. Time, like water, makes all things clean again.

Epoxy Mang looked at the container of chipotle mayo and then pointed to his own naked burger. The solemn joy of knowing another man's soul, his dao, his inner being, his holon suffused my being. I was the Fisher King among his court.

The movie preceded, and the atmosphere hushed. With the score, I could take no issue. Yes, Williams at times lifts motifs and entire sections (like the middle-fifths from Sacre Dus Printemps for example) but in this dessicated age, he seems to treble at least the efforts of his postmodern contemporaries (like the execrable Zimmer) and the film was liberally watered with a score that if not always sensible of the absurdity on-screen, at least acted as a friendly Wagnerian chauffeur to the silliness.

What interested me the most though was the devotional atmosphere. I saw a man in a double-breasted suit and in double monk leather shoes, his pants colorfully fashioned in the Italian spezzato style. His hair had been slicked, of course, and completed the sort of look that screamed insouciant sociopathy; I was familiar with it as I had often fashioned it myself. The only thing that gave him away as vaguely human was his Boba Fett cap, a sort of montrosity that he had prised over his slicked back hair --he looked in short like a pomaded Mandalorian condom, which I suppose added to the psychotic chic. He barely touched his sliders (with some kind of twee green chili --we put it on everything here in Colorado-- topping.) His head was bent towards the screen the whole time, as if this gentrifying, commodities desk, derivative masking motherfucka was a saint communing with God himself.

The passion scenes abounded.

Another woman with a squat bowl haircut and a Han Solo vest pursed her lips and muttered along to lines in the movie, occasionally puncturing the punchlines (and some were not ineffective) with a side-long stare to make sure that she was not too loud --and that others of course were not too silent. The Epoxy Mang kept thrumming his fist, occasionally digging into his burger with the other-- in time to the movies action scenes.

Like every such event (a cenacle of snake-handlers, the Nuremberg Rally) there was something both thrilling to the unwary mind and yet in its inanity dehorted one to remain emotionally unavailable. My sister-in-law's paramour, himself a Jedi junkie, ignored his counterpart's attempts to get handsy (too fool him.) I exchanged bemused glances of my wife, one of two people in the whole EDM slaughterhouse not entirely affected by the spectacle.

And a spectacle it is. In the eternal words of the critic (though I believe this waxes Herzogian), this is a movie that is far more concerned with what is to occur on the screen, than the why of the screen. In this, I cannot muster either wanhope or rage. Star Wars, after all, is gilded American trash, a nostalgia-captured tribute to a time that never was, a reactionary assault on Dickian and Asimovian fiction, a recapitulation of American ideology steeped in demulcent special effects and glittery young stars.

Same. As. It. Ever. Was.

The social milieu and certain aspects (the winking roguishness of Mr. Ford, the gravitas of Mr. Guinness) as well as the auteur respect that Mr. Lucas had undeservedly earned froze the first two films --essential and in their own way triumphant works-- in an amber of adoration. It did not matter that the Force was pseudophilosophical twaddle, that most of the acting was laughable, that the effects have aged rather badly, that the action is stultifying, the characterization an exercise in teeth grinding declamation, or that the plot literally revolves around something called a Death Star (a name a seven year old would sniff at.)

No. Star Wars has always been about what you take into it. Was this exploitative of the audience? Perhaps. Was this a tribute to the coarsening and infantilization of mass culture? Arguably so. Was there no better symptom of what a soulless exercise in money this was than its vassalization by the almighty Disney Corporation? Bien sur!

But that is to miss the point. I could, for example, point out that the leads (aside from an engaging DESTINYGIRL turn by Ms. Ridley or good comic timing rounding off an acanthous turn by Mr. Boyega) were bland, or that the plot was a carbon copy of earlier works. But then so was the original Star Wars, which invented by not inventing, which thrilled with a laughable story of GOOD and EVIL cribbed off of a pseudo-intellectual who had sympathies for Nazis (Campbellian monomyth delenda est.) I could point out that the movie has no politics worth fighting over (the Resistance, the First Order who cares), but then the original mythos relies on extradiegetic BRITISHNESS and Nazi aesthetics to gin up sufficient hatred for the Empire (Alderaan was a legitimate military target lololololol.)

Largely, I don't have the energy to peculate or even to find this enraging. It's a perfectly brainless movie for its two hour run time with a few hidden pleasures (much like SHEEEEEV in the unfairly maligned prequels.) What I find exhausting was precisely the devotional tableau I walked into. One woman gripped her armrest with such force (heh) you'd think she was the Madonna passing the Baby Jesus through her cinematic cervix.

And that is perhaps the biggest point of all. Star Wars has become an agent binding nerd and mass culture (for all its fascistic bad and all its demotic good) into a field that binds and surrounds us. I wouldn't rate this film numerically (probably around a five or four if forced) because the numbers that matter --the masses and their families-- have already inflated it with something far more important than characterization, drama, narrative, pathos, or even a reason to exist (the movies should have stopped after Episode V.)

They have imbued it with belief, the giddy and childlike belief in belief itself. This will be good. There will be more. An explanation of why Kylo Ren did THE THING and who Snoke (not some kind of Swedish stew) is. Luke is here. John Williams is here. All is well.

I won't be there for it, not unless the Cinebar Classic comes back in all its glory (aioli or GTFO) or I have to wingman for a friend or I am sufficient bored.

But I can only hope that The Force or some Force is with the next film-makers. There is satisfaction in this movie, one supposes, to a fan of these childish and childlike pastimes. And yet the adoration for it is but a phantom one --pace Goethe-- filled with:

All that the tender spirits sing you,
The lovely images they bring you,
Are not an empty sorcery.
They will delight your sense of smell,
They will refresh your palate well,
And blissful will your feeling swell.

And yet the payment of the bargain always comes.

And it is seldom pretty.

P.S. My sandwich was still pretty good, but I asked for it medium-rare and got it medium which actually bummed me out the most about the night. LEARN HOW TO TREAT YOUR MEAT PEOPLE.
 
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Cainhurst Crow

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So in Disney infinity force awakens gameplay, when you play as Rey and you fight kylo ren, he'll shout "fight me cousin".

Guess a few game devs are gonna get sacked for that fuck up.
 

Vulpes

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So in Disney infinity force awakens gameplay, when you play as Rey and you fight kylo ren, he'll shout "fight me cousin".

Guess a few game devs are gonna get sacked for that **** up.
Link? I can't find anything on this.
 

Marcus

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Most interesting (and I heard it at about the 20:35 mark).
 

VVVVVV

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Ben is a Skywalker by blood, but he's not Ben Skywalker. The filmmakers will undoubtedly want the Skywalker name to continue on.
Why would the filmmakers undoubtedly want the name to continue on? The sequel trilogy is completing the saga, not setting up films ten, eleven, and twelve. Carrying on the name serves no purpose other than just another reveal that everyone is clearly already expecting. It's cheap. It would be far more meaningful and creative for the sequel trilogy to be Ben's story as the eventual heir to Luke. It's a tougher story to construct but quite probably more worthwhile in the end. Ultimately, if the story is Ben's, it's the story of the Skywalker family.

When Kylo said that she was very strong in the Force and Snoke was shocked that she could resist his mind infiltration techniques.
Snoke is surprised she's Force-sensitive at all, especially to the point where she can resist him despite being still untrained. That doesn't seem to imply Ren had tortured others who were strong in the Force. Remember that to everyone Rey is just some girl. It would be shocking that she can resist Ren.

Because Anakin was supposed to be the strongest in the Force there ever was and if someone has the potential to be more powerful than a member of his family it begs the question as to how that would be possible unless that person was also a member of his family.
When was Anakin supposed to the strongest their ever was? He was supposed to be the Chosen One, and bring balance to the Force, but I don't recall his being the strongest their ever was being the catalyst to do so. In fact, we're never once shown that he's the strongest in the Force. There are many characters who were skilled far beyond he was both with a lightsaber and with the Force.
 

Marcus

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I hate to use this word, so Yoda forgive me, but Anakin's midichlorian count was higher than they had ever seen. While that is the dumbest plot device since... ever, it tells us he was indeed quite powerful in the Force.
 

Kath

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I just saw the movie today and I thought it was amazing. It definitely lived up to the hype. I went in blind and not 2 hours before I saw the movie, a random number texted me "Han Solo dies". I didn't want to believe it but as soon as we got to Starkiller Base I knew it was going to happen and I was pissed. I'm not mad he died but I am pissed the surprise was ruined. Other than that though, fantastic film. I can not wait to for the rest to come out.
 

Vulpes

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Skip to 22:28
Sounds like [and general consensus in the comments] that he says 'Face me', and then 'Curses' because he's hit immediately afterwards, just happened to sound like Cousin.
 

Oreus

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Sounds like [and general consensus in the comments] that he says 'Face me', and then 'Curses' because he's hit immediately afterwards, just happened to sound like Cousin.

Sounds more like Disney plants sent to hide their error. Don't fall for it. Disney is everywhere. You can't trust anyone.
 

Ser Gregor

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I'm really doubtful of that vulpes.
Someone didn't watch their own video closely enough, then. He clearly says "curses!" a few minutes later in that video after being hit (25:15). It's just what he says when he gets hit, which happened to trigger immediately after he said "face me!".
 

Brandon Rhea

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Why would the filmmakers undoubtedly want the name to continue on? The sequel trilogy is completing the saga, not setting up films ten, eleven, and twelve.

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you. =P

This isn't a George Lucas "I had this planned out all along" thing. They're not completing anything, because they don't want Star Wars to end. They will undoubtedly make more episodic films after Episode IX. Disney has plans for Star Wars for the next 50 years, and it's not all going to be spinoff films. The Skywalker storyline will continue.
 

Jax Vos

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When was Anakin supposed to the strongest their ever was? He was supposed to be the Chosen One, and bring balance to the Force, but I don't recall his being the strongest their ever was being the catalyst to do so. In fact, we're never once shown that he's the strongest in the Force. There are many characters who were skilled far beyond he was both with a lightsaber and with the Force.
Check out below
I hate to use this word, so Yoda forgive me, but Anakin's midichlorian count was higher than they had ever seen. While that is the dumbest plot device since... ever, it tells us he was indeed quite powerful in the Force.
Thanks Marcus

My point is that, in being the Chosen One, he was supposed to have the greatest natural connection to the Force which would therefore make him the strongest in the Force. I never said most skilled and I never said most developed. You took what I said to imply that I was talking about his developed skills when in fact I was talking about his untapped potential. I could also counter that the only reason that Palpatine was more powerful at the end was because Darth Vader did not have natural limbs and was stuck inside of a containment suit that kept him alive. Had that battle on Mustafar ended differently Palpatine likely would have taught Anakin everything he knew, and Anakin would have succeeded Palpatine as Emperor and killed him to become the new master Dark Lord of the Sith.
 

Cainhurst Crow

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Someone didn't watch their own video closely enough, then. He clearly says "curses!" a few minutes later in that video after being hit (25:15). It's just what he says when he gets hit, which happened to trigger immediately after he said "face me!".
He does say curses clearly at 25:15 , but not at 20:35. To me at least, both do not sound like the same word being said. I can clearly make out an "-in" at the end of the first word. Perhaps it's a layering issue of the game trying to say two lines of dialogue at once, but it doesn't sound like he says curses to me the first time he yells face me.
 
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