Timeline Change Date and FL Applications

[Brandon Rhea]

I personally think that for the Sith, it could be fun to have a more backstabbing culture. Obviously people would have to separate that from IRL and not hold grudges over it, but it could be quite cool to have a less cohesive group of Sith this TL. Having something like this happen would make the story more interesting imo.

Helps keep things fresh and exciting too. Obviously total instability and a faction being totally consumed in this sort of thing isn't the ideal scenario, but having that uncertainty where the leader today may suddenly not be the leader tomorrow is interesting.

@Ser Gregor should tell you all about how he was Dark Lord, and how his character being overthrown was one of the best twists the site's ever seen.

 

[MasterTyvokka]

If people choose to target the FL, so be it. That's how the Sith faction should be. Powerplays, manipulation, etc. The one thing that disappointed me in the Fifth Timeline was that we didn't really see that. The Dark Council and the Emperorship (minus a forced NPC plot) was largely stable, with no grabs for power. No one really challenged the Sith FL. Hell, I am honestly surprised no one challenged me. It would be like a guaranteed promotion to FLship, considering my PvP skills. The Jedi saw more in-fighting than the Sith.

I seriously thought about challenging you. I had had my on the Dark Lord position for a while. However I remembered my pvp skills. And if a thread of the nature had occurred, between you and me, the awfulness of the pvp in it... well that kind of thing just can't be unseen. :) Honestly what kept me from doing so was mostly RL stuff. You were doing a better job than I thought I could at that time.

There was a period of time when I first joined that there were a number of challenges, at least for Dark Council positions. But I think there were a number of reasons, some of them in the rules (hence my response to bac below.) that kept that kind of thing from happening on a regular basis.

We also recently found out that there's a rule buried in Sith faction rules and guidelines for this timeline that basically makes challenges impossible. That was a terrible idea, and that sort of thing won't be allowed again.

While they may not have made challenges impossible there were a number of rules that acted as a pretty significant barrier to challenging. I am glad the new TL will be different.

 

[Gamov]

Good stuff.

 

[Ser Gregor]

@Ser Gregor should tell you all about how he was Dark Lord, and how his character being overthrown was one of the best twists the site's ever seen.

Maaaaaaan that was my favourite moment on this site. Dakar hid his deception in plain-site perfectly.

For all you youngins, I was the Dark Lord back in the... third timeline, and my second was the disgraced former Grand Master of the Jedi. My character was, described simply, a Sith sorcerer. He was inspired by Palpatine. Thus he was physically weak but immensely powerful in the Dark Side. I thought it would be a fun development if my Dark Lord were to 'transfer' in to a fresh body. BUT because my Dark Lord was physically weak I sent my second to fetch the body. All good, right?

Nope. Dakar (the Grand Master) recruited a fellow user to RP the confrontation between my new body and the former Grand Master. They RPed at least 10 pages of content to bury Dakar's betrayal within pages of text. They were banking on me not reading every page. They were right. My Dark Lord used the ritual he had developed to transfer into the new body. It was at this point that Dakar revealed to me that he had killed the host by severing his spinal cord with the force, thus providing me with a paralyzed body. The immense energy required to do the ritual had left my Dark Lord weak and, in a paralyzed body, helpless. It was at that point Dakar severed Darth Nexus' head with his saber, but not before claiming himself as the new Dark Lord of the Sith.

I wasn't even mad.

EDIT: Also, as a hilarious side-note, Grim (Green Ranger) got pissed when I made the announcement in the Sith OOC board about my (forced) resignation. Rightly so, because his character was built to challenge the current Sith status-quo, and the thread the betrayal transpired in was closed. That was his issue, that we did it in a closed thread. He was suddenly okay when I explained to him I had no idea I was going to die in that thread.

 

[Tsunami]

@Ser Gregor

That's is awesome!

 

[Epicjester]

See. Now that right there. THAT is what I am hoping is going to happen in this timeline. Betrayals, powerplays. Not knowing who you can really trust. This whole dynamic is why I have Rhem a Sith despite his personality leaning more towards a Jedi. To me, this kind of thing simply feels far more fun and engaging.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

I have a question about faction leadership.

Can there be two IC leaders? For instance let's say the Sith and the SBZ don't fight anymore and they truly do start to see themselves as equals. Could the Leader of the SBZ and Sith, partner up. Becoming Co-Leaders with equal say and power? Pretty much forming a dual rule. Kinda like a Diarchy form of government.

Or will it strictly be a one leader basis?

I like the idea of having two IC rulers.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I have a question about faction leadership.

Can there be two IC leaders? For instance let's say the Sith and the SBZ don't fight anymore and they truly do start to see themselves as equals. Could the Leader of the SBZ and Sith, partner up. Becoming Co-Leaders with equal say and power? Pretty much forming a dual rule. Kinda like a Diarchy form of government.

Or will it strictly be a one leader basis?

I like the idea of having two IC rulers.

IC? Yes. OOC? No. One FL per faction.

 

[Spud]

If the Sith and SBZ do see themselves as equals and ever come to the point where a diarchic society would it be plausible for whomever the SL is to elect an AFL from the other sub-faction to represent them and act as a sort of advisor/second-in-command and whatnot? Rather than two technically equal leaders.

 

[Green Ranger]

@Nor'baal

It is not about beliving a Force Sensitive is better. If we are looking back and someone told you that Darth Sideous was just a face, he was actually following orders of an honour guard... You would have been like no way, not a chance.

Even though those dudes in red are some of the strongest, best trained and ruthless people in the Galaxy. It just wouldn't have made sense.

So again, it is not the fact FS are better than non-FS, but the fact that:

1.) Whenever the Sith fall into disarray it has always been the strongest who takes the top spot. So I struggle to see a member from the SBZ being that...
2.) I feel it is going to be exceptionally hard, for the guy from the SBZ to lead. ICly, a lot of characters wouldn't think of a soldier, assassin or criminal as their superior. That create an awkward conflict.

I know that PvP has been balanced a lot better in terms of FS vs non-FS. That's something very cool for someone like me with two indies. However if we looked at it with PvP out of the question, across the entire Sith empire it would be hard to believe there was no Palpatines, Banes or Vitiates who could squash a regular roll character.

It'd be like having Senators or BA on the Jedi Council. (If they were on the same side ofc)

I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but I want to comment on this.

One important thing to keep in mind is that not so long ago, all members of the SBZ had to kill at least one Sith just as a rite of initiation. That immediately should give you an indication of how capable these individuals are. Now, you might argue that this is no longer the case so the SBZ members don't have the same advantages, but the tradition of killing Force users would still run strong within the SBZ. Writing them off as incapable is, frankly, insulting to anyone who plans on writing a SBZ character, and any attitude of 'no Sith would ever follow or obey a non-Force User' contradicts canon.

In the historical context of the timeline, it's important to note that the Sith Order are basically responsible for the decline and destruction of the Old Sith Empire. So any notions of superiority or arrogance need to be tempered by the fact that the Sith led their civilization to the brink of annihilation. That's not just something we threw in there for the SBZ's sake - it should be an important consideration when writing your character, especially if you have notions that you can walk all over a SBZ character and get away with it - the truth is, relations are probably pretty tense, so if you go down that avenue, you have to expect that there's a good chance the SBZ character might just kill you for being a collossal dick.

I think a lot of members who focus on the Sith tend to ignore the fact that above all else, Sith respect power, even if they disagree with it. The hierarchy is respected to a degree - plotting and assassinations happen, sure, but they're very rarely conducted openly, and this only tends to happen when the powerbase of both contenders is more or less equal. Consider that your Sith disagrees with a SBZ character ruling the greater Sith civilization - fair enough, but also keep in mind that they climbed the ranks of an organization that are on-par skillwise with Sith, to the degree that they can kill them. So this non-Force user is the best of the best of Sith killers here, and like any Force using Supreme Leader, they'd surround themselves with protections against those foolish enough to try and oust them. If that's not a sign of power, then I don't know what is.

Furthermore, on an OOC level, attitudes like that expressed above not only damage the faction, but they also feed in to the sentiment that Force Users are somehow invulnerable to Non-Force Users, which is absolutely not the case, and has been proven to be false time and time again. Also factoring in the changes to Force usage, and there's a very real chance that a Non-Force user could very well kick your ass.

Ultimately, any FL in the Sith is going to have to be a hardass and a capable PvPer, since that faction above all others promotes these powerplays. So if a Non-Force user rises to that position, then they're going to be tough as nails.

 

[Sapphire Storm]

@Green Ranger Why do you always say what I'm thinking in a way far better than I can? It's not fair!

 

[Tsunami]

So it was that the most capable non-Force sensitives under Sith rule were also sent to Ziost. Those few who survived went on to become the Sacred Band of Ziost.

Since the creation of the SBZ sticky in the DOTR workshop this has been the original post. All those who have wished to join the SBZ have read the post, as well as people like me who were turned away from joining the SBZ because of it.

Now i have not said anywhere that a SBZ member is any more or less incapable of leading the Faction as a whole, nor have i stated that they can not hold their own. I even stated

However if we looked at it with PvP out of the question,

my argument is not based on the fact that a Non-FS could or could not PvP or even kill a FS. My argument is purely based on what I have been led to belive since my joining. which is the above quote that says "under Sith rule".

It is only recently that people have started to state that the SBZ are equal, something not just me has argued.

Furthermore, on an OOC level, attitudes like that expressed above not only damage the faction, but they also feed in to the sentiment that Force Users are somehow invulnerable to Non-Force Users,

I'm assuming that is not based on what you quoted as I never stated anything of the sort. I merely stated that from the information I had from the top of my head, when the Sith were about to crumble it was only the strongest that rose to grab power. I'm not saying that a SBZ member couldn't do it now that it is an option, but for realisms sake the point that I was making is that it has never happened before to my knowledge.

I would also like to say, that my gripe is not with whoever the faction leader is. Regardless if they turn out to be SBZ or Sith, they have my full support OCC if they need help and I can help. ICly though, they are going to need to do something impressive to make be go, hell. This is the guy to follow

I also said this, which is more than supportive of the admins and the TT choice to make it run by a SBZ member OCCly. Yet to have not stated my opinion on the matter would have only been doing a disservice to myself.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

If the Sith and SBZ do see themselves as equals and ever come to the point where a diarchic society would it be plausible for whomever the SL is to elect an AFL from the other sub-faction to represent them and act as a sort of advisor/second-in-command and whatnot? Rather than two technically equal leaders.

The FL can appoint whomever they want as AFLs.

 

[Spud]

The FL can appoint whomever they want as AFLs.

Not sure why I asked that question like that, man I need caffeine. I am curious about the actual rankings of the AFL's within the societies, would they be considered as second/third/whatever-in-command essentially or would that generally be up to the FL with how they appointed them and what authority they were given with their own separate ranking structures of 'who's technically higher than the other in regards to blah".; such as head of 'this sect over here', chief whisperer of all things related to this thingamajig, musketeer of foreign relations. I'm guessing the latter, though probably less ridiculous titles, but I can't help but ask. xP

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Not sure why I asked that question like that, man I need caffeine. I am curious about the actual rankings of the AFL's within the societies, would they be considered as second/third/whatever-in-command essentially or would that generally be up to the FL with how they appointed them and what authority they were given; such as head of 'this sect over here', chief whisperer of all things related to this thingamajig, musketeer of foreign relations. I'm guessing the latter, though probably less ridiculous titles, but I can't help but ask. xP

They'd be the leader of the Lords of the Sith and the leader of the SBZ, respectively, so yeah they'd be like the second in commands in society.

The AFLs are the Dark Lord of the Sith (leader of the Lords of the Sith) and the Warlord (leader of the SBZ). Supreme Leader sits above them both as the sovereign ruler of all Sith society.

 

[Spud]

Ahh I see, so it's a triple system. One overall and one for each sub-faction. What I'm thinking of then would be more along the lines of individual roles of a separate nature that fall somewhere within the inner circles of each of those 3 individuals.

I think I've now had too much caffeine, don't chug red bull and try to write coherently xD

 

[Green Ranger]

It is only recently that people have started to state that the SBZ are equal, something not just me has argued.

Just to respond to this, but on page 3 of the SBZ discussion, there's this:

Enthralled is probably a bit of poetic licence on my behalf there, so maybe I gave the wrong impression there. I think the more important message to take out of the blurb is that, historically, the Sacred Band were Non-Force Sensitives who underwent the cruelest and harshest of Sith crucibles and survived. That's the legacy of the Sacred Band of Ziost - you're non-Force Sensitives who faced down the worst the Sith can throw at you and survived. That makes you the best of the best, the most elite group of specialists remaining in service to the Sith. You're commandos, master hackers, droid savants, and so on. That not only is a source of pride, but it's also a major point of respect - and while the Sacred Band doesn't have the same glory they once had, the name still holds weight that you can throw around, even at your Sith peers, who not only should treat you as equals, but you have every right to demand respect when they don't as well.

 

[Tsunami]

Dark Lord of the Sith (leader of the Lords of the Sith) and the Warlord (leader of the SBZ).

Bad ass titles/ranks! I'm glad that the Dark Lord Title isn't gone totally!

 

[Tsunami]

@Green Ranger

This is all well and good, however this post only came to my attention last Thursday... the whole rest of this transition period I have been personally under the belief that the SBZ are effectively useful but in the end disposable. Now that is no ones fault, however the OP should have been updated to reflect that, as my first post on the SBZ thread was about doing some RP with them on my Jedi Knight, after the date that large text had outlined your actual plans was posted.

As I said previously, the issues lie in my worries ICly, i am merely voicing them OCCly. There is undoubtedly going to be many conflicts of interests. One example after a read through of their threads recent posts they want a more flimsy less regimented rank system where as a lot of the Sith want a more regimented and standard rank structure. Nothing wrong with either way, however the more things they can't agree on the more scrappy people will get. Maybe that's what people want, i'm not opposed to a bit of infighting, that's half the fun of playing Sith, but if it then starts effecting the main faction goals because everyone's too busy beating the hell out of each other... then that would be mighty sad.

 

[Spud]

...Nothing wrong with either way, however the more things they can't agree on the more scrappy people will get. Maybe that's what people want, i'm not opposed to a bit of infighting, that's half the fun of playing Sith, but if it then starts effecting the main faction goals because everyone's too busy beating the hell out of each other... then that would be mighty sad.

Our FL will need a strong hand to keep the order, that much is certain. Probably a strong spine, and brain, and stomach, and spleen, and everything else for that matter.