UK leaves EU

Officiant

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While there are definitely pros and cons to the European Union, what I think is the most concerning is that older people seem to have made a decision alone that will affect the lives of younger generations for the years to come. Also, I was astonished to learn that most people don't seem to know what they have voted for. In the hours following the announcement that the eurosceptic had won the referendum, the most researched terms on Google accros the United Kingdoms where "What is the European Union?" and "What are the consequences of leaving the European Union?" It worries me as a strong advocate of direct democracy which referendums are an exemple of.

Those articles really irked me because they ultimately reveal implicit bias and devaluation of the people's choice. They wrote it as only Euroskeptics could have researched those terms, furthering the chant of the Remain camp, Europhiles and the Left that only uneducated, hillbilly half-wits could have possibly voted to leave the shining utopia of the EU. I think it far more likely that the spike was due to young people who didn't vote (or couldn't due to age) or they themselves who didn't educate themselves about what they were voting for. Not to mention the neutrality of the search queries themselves. My favorite articles before the referendum were how unconcerned the youth of the country were about the referendum and how little some of them seemed to know, but that's selection bias of course.
 

Clayton

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There's a petition for a second referendum that argues since 24% of people didn't vote, and the decision was won by a 52% majority, that there needs to be a second vote.

And considering that the Leave campaign has outright lied about some of their promises (NHS, immigration), that just might happen.
 

FinnSimmons

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The fact that they have jet to officially announce their leaving to the EU as they are required to only shows what a bunch of hypochrites they are. They will drag this whole process out for 2 years untill the deadline arives and reap subsidies untill the last moment so they won't have to explain things to the voters untill after they were voted into some fancy new office. Just saying, #UK'sveryownTrump
 

FinnSimmons

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And there we go. They will wait until a new PM has been put into office before anouncing the leave to the EU. The argument for it is utter BS. If you know the chance of a Brexit is on the table you make arangements beforehand not after. How about you do us all a favour and don't mess around with 300 million EU cituzens' tax money. I am sure Spain, Portugal, Italy and Grece are just waiting to get the UK subsidies redistributed. Seriously. The UK acts like a spoiled kept woman / man, screaming and yelling about how unhappy they are but ultimately they stick around for the money anyway.
 

Richie B.

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As a American my knowledge of the outside world is very limited. Could anyone explain to me the purpose and the use of the EU and how it related to the GB?
 

Officiant

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There's a petition for a second referendum that argues since 24% of people didn't vote, and the decision was won by a 52% majority, that there needs to be a second vote.

And considering that the Leave campaign has outright lied about some of their promises (NHS, immigration), that just might happen.

The greater part of me instantly says that sets a very poor precedent for democracy that if you don't get the result you want you just try, try again until the demographics or turnout go in your favor. Unfortunately I do believe that things like that are fundamentally part of a competitive and vibrant democracy. I would like it for everyone to vote but results should not be abrogated or annulled based on some arbitrary number. 73% is a pretty high turnout, if people didn't vote the first time, it's there own fault. My immigrant, political dissident of a mother always impressed upon me the importance of voting in absolutely everything you can and she has yet to miss a general, special or local election in addition to our town's yearly budget referendums because she feels as a woman who was never consulted about her country's future in her youth and had her choices invalidated when she came of age, that you must vote at any and every opportunity and if you win or lose, that's the system.

However I will admit that this is a very, very big decision and there might be something to chant of "Got to be Certain". Maybe Kylie Minogue should stump for a 2nd Referendum?
 

Liam

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There's a petition for a second referendum that argues since 24% of people didn't vote, and the decision was won by a 52% majority, that there needs to be a second vote.

And considering that the Leave campaign has outright lied about some of their promises (NHS, immigration), that just might happen.

I understand why those upset would want a second referendum, especially considering the magnitude of this decision. However, I hope this does indeed show young people that voting does make a difference. While this is a very general statement, many young people are oftentimes passionate about their beliefs online, but never actually show up to the polls in the first place. Now that they have seen that the lack of turnout actually made a difference, they want to hold a second referendum, which I do think would be a mistake, regardless of what my beliefs on the actually separation of the UK from the EU may be. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

I also do understand that the entire 24% of the population wasn't just "lazy young people", as their are other factors that may contribute to a person not being able to vote. However, it cannot be denied that the feeble millennial turnout had to have played a part.
 

Outlander

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I understand why those upset would want a second referendum, especially considering the magnitude of this decision. However, I hope this does indeed show young people that voting does make a difference. While this is a very general statement, many young people are oftentimes passionate about their beliefs online, but never actually show up to the polls in the first place. Now that they have seen that the lack of turnout actually made a difference, they want to hold a second referendum, which I do think would be a mistake, regardless of what my beliefs on the actually separation of the UK from the EU may be. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

I also do understand that the entire 24% of the population wasn't just "lazy young people", as their are other factors that may contribute to a person not being able to vote. However, it cannot be denied that the feeble millennial turnout had to have played a part.

It didn't help that the UK changed their voting registration from households to individuals, requiring a ton of people to re-register.
 

Cainhurst Crow

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So now that the UK has left the EU, there's rumors coming from Poland that the EU nations, specifically Germany and France, are trying to lead an effort to do away with the entire concept of sovereignty and make 1 single federal government to govern all of the EU. It's rumors of a report from the EU about the planned creation of a superstate confederation, and a supposed copy of the report leaked by the polish government.

Remember, these are rumors, so we'll need to wait for more evidence to say whether this is true or not. But I think it belongs in this thread, considering its in direct response to the Brexit.

An article that brings it up: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

The report in question: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument
 

Kaane

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So now that the UK has left the EU, there's rumors coming from Poland that the EU nations, specifically Germany and France, are trying to lead an effort to do away with the entire concept of sovereignty and make 1 single federal government to govern all of the EU. It's rumors of a report from the EU about the planned creation of a superstate confederation, and a supposed copy of the report leaked by the polish government.

Remember, these are rumors, so we'll need to wait for more evidence to say whether this is true or not. But I think it belongs in this thread, considering its in direct response to the Brexit.

An article that brings it up: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

The report in question: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument

These people can barely manage their own countries. What makes them think that a group of them can manage the entire EU?

This sounds kind of like tabloid material though, it's so outlandish. It's my experience that the French people have too powerful of a mental national identity in their own eyes to even consider doing something like that. Germany, however, perhaps. But if they are stupid enough to think that somehow they can bring in 27?(might be a wrong count here, idk) whole countries with distinct ethnic and cultural backgrounds under one unitarian government, then they can look back at the history books at all the unstable coalitions IN THEIR OWN CONTINENT that broke apart or are threatening to break apart at the seams. It's like they're actually trying to destroy the EU rather than have it recover.

RIP European Union
 

Clayton

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I understand why those upset would want a second referendum, especially considering the magnitude of this decision. However, I hope this does indeed show young people that voting does make a difference. While this is a very general statement, many young people are oftentimes passionate about their beliefs online, but never actually show up to the polls in the first place. Now that they have seen that the lack of turnout actually made a difference, they want to hold a second referendum, which I do think would be a mistake, regardless of what my beliefs on the actually separation of the UK from the EU may be. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

I also do understand that the entire 24% of the population wasn't just "lazy young people", as their are other factors that may contribute to a person not being able to vote. However, it cannot be denied that the feeble millennial turnout had to have played a part.


Well, considering that a Constitutional Amendment requires a 2/3 majority to pass, and that Leaving the EU would be just as impactful a decision, I don't see how 52% is reasonable. Granted, the American political system has it's flaws, but even we recognize that a simple majority isn't always enough for certain decisions.
 

Officiant

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Well, considering that a Constitutional Amendment requires a 2/3 majority to pass, and that Leaving the EU would be just as impactful a decision, I don't see how 52% is reasonable. Granted, the American political system has it's flaws, but even we recognize that a simple majority isn't always enough for certain decisions.

It's the trouble with democracy and mandates. There's nothing that an entire country, an entire body politic, will ever unanimously agree on but leaders still want decisive shows of votes at the ballot box to give them clear authority and consent from the people, which they rarely ever get. In most countries a 52% share of the vote is pretty decisive, though for many, they might be looking at a 2% majority and can only see division and strife, a razor thin tyranny of the majority. As often as it may suck depending on the situation, a straight majority or first past the post is actually a pretty pure version of democracy since it is the first will, the first intent. Everything after it is rather... forced and is usually for the sake of those in power (observe France and its notorious "false majorities").
 

Tom

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I'm just glad the EU tea stockpile will be rebuilt with them gone.
 

Dawyn

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I'm just glad the EU tea stockpile will be rebuilt with them gone.

I'm actually glad because now is the cheapest time in the last thirty years to visit the UK, our family wasn't considering visiting again so soon but with the pound hovering around 1.20 to the dollar, it's pretty tempting. I wonder how the Brexit is affecting tourism?
 
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