United States Presidential Election, 2016

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Kaeb

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The only one taking this personaly seems to be you. I thought it was very 'on discussion' to point out that what you were feeling about my post was irrelevant to the content of my post. Just like the feeling of the far left of being somehow marginalized or discriminated against are irrelevant. Argumemts need to be suported by facts and language follows rules. No reason to get all emotional about that.
And if you feel that I am offended them you can of course feel that all you like but it still does not make it any more true. :)

Right, because mocking someone's intelligence in response to their critique of your words, isn't motivated by an emotional response at all, who do you think you're kidding here, kid? Where in any of my words would I have indicated that I was offended? The part where I pointed your offense out, or the part where I stated that such acts were below me? I'm not sure we're speaking the same language at all mate, I'll give you that.

You can play in the kiddy pool with your made up concepts of a conspiratorial far left, while the rest of adults talk like actual adults talk. There is no conspiratorial effort to push a leftist agenda, but gather around kids, and let me explain it to you.

I'm going to explain the Donald Trump phenomenon through some movies. And then some text.

There's this universal shorthand that epic adventure movies use to tell the good guys from the bad. The good guys are simple folk from the countryside, while the bad guys are decadent assholes who live in the city and wear stupid clothes. Luke Skywalker is a farmboy, Vader and the rest of the evils live on a shiny station wearing shiny clothes. Same goes for movies like Braveheart, or The Hunger Games. The theme expresses itself in several ways -- primitive vs. advanced, tough vs. delicate, masculine vs. feminine, poor vs. rich, pure vs. decadent, traditional vs. weird. All of it is code for rural vs. urban. That tense divide between the two doesn't exist because of these movies, obviously. These movies used it as shorthand because the divide already existed. The 'grizzled country folk' feel compelled to dislike the 'prissy elites'.

It's largely about what you're exposed to in your upbringing and where it takes place. See, political types talk about "red states" and "blue states" (where red = Republican/conservative and blue = Democrat/progressive), but forget about states. If you want to understand the Trump phenomenon, dig up the much more detailed county map. Here's how the nation voted county by county in the 2012 election -- again, red is Republican:

rNugZeG.jpg
Source here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

Holy cockslaps, that makes it look like Obama's blue party is some kind of fringe political faction that struggles to get 20 percent of the vote. The blue parts, however, are more densely populated -- they're the cities. In the upper left, you see the blue Seattle/Tacoma area, lower down is San Francisco and then L.A. The blue around the dick-shaped Lake Michigan is made of cities like Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago. In the northeast is, of course, New York and Boston, leading down into Philadelphia, which leads into a blue band which connects a bunch of southern cities like Charlotte and Atlanta. Blue islands in an ocean of red. The cities are less than 4 percent of the land mass, but 62 percent of the population and easily 99 percent of the popular culture. Our movies, shows, songs, and news all radiate out from those blue islands.

For outsiders looking in at these cities, the difference in culture astounds them. 'Their ways are strange' etc. Every TV show is about LA or New York, maybe with some Chicago or Baltimore thrown in. When they do make a show about rural areas, they're jokes -- either wide-eyed, naive fluffballs (Parks And Recreation, and before that, Newhart) or filthy murderous mutants (True Detective, and before that, Deliverance). This entrenched aspect of your culture can be interpeted as arragonce by those looking in. "Nothing that happens outside the city matters!" they say at their cocktail parties, blissfully unaware of where their food is grown. Hey, remember when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans? Kind of weird that a big hurricane hundreds of miles across managed to snipe one specific city and avoid everything else. To watch the news (or the multiple movies and TV shows about it), you'd barely hear about how the storm utterly steamrolled rural Mississippi, killing 238 people and doing an astounding $125 billion in damage.

But who cares about those people, right? What's newsworthy about a bunch of toothless hillbillies crying over a flattened trailer? New Orleans is culturally important. It matters. To those ignored, suffering people, Donald Trump is a brick chucked through the window of the elites. "Are you assholes listening now?" etc.

"But isn't this really about race? Aren't Trump supporters just a bunch of racists? Don't they hate cities because that's where the brown people live?"

Look, we're going to get actual Nazis on this forum. Actual Nazis. Those people exist.

But what I can say, from personal experience with people who grew up in rural southern communities, is that the racism of their youth was always one step removed. They didn't typically see a family member, friend, or classmate be mean to the actual black people in their town. They worked with them, played video games with them, waved to them when they passed. What I did hear was several million comments about how if you ever ventured into the city, winding up in the "wrong neighborhood" meant you'd get dragged from your car, raped, and burned alive. Looking back, I think the idea was that the local minorities were fine ... as long as they acted exactly like those same white southerners back home. And BECAUSE they were white, they were likely blind to the experiences actual minorities had during their day to day lives.

This shit is perpetuated through culture and permeates your media like a disease, fanning the flames, causing the people in these communities to fear white elites and ganbangers wearing hoodies and talking about Fuck the Police and shit. Even though that wasn't the point of those aspects of culture, that's how they were interpreted. Their ways are strange etc.

It's not just perception, either -- the stats back up the fact that these are parallel universes. People living in the countryside are twice as likely to own a gun and will probably get married younger. People in the urban "blue" areas talk faster and walk faster. They are more likely to be drug abusers but less likely to be alcoholics. The blues are less likely to own land and, most importantly, they're less likely to be Evangelical Christians. In the small towns, this often gets expressed as "They don't share our values!" and progressives love to scoff at that. "What, like illiteracy and homophobia?!?!"

Nope. Everything.

Then there are other contributing phenomenon. The cities are always living in the future. I remember when our little town got our first Chinese restaurant and, 20 years later, its first fancy coffee shop. All of this stuff had turned up in movies (set in L.A., of course) decades earlier. I remember watching '80s movies and mocking the "Valley Girl" stereotypes -- young girls from, like, California who would, like, say, "like" in between every third word. Twenty years later, you can hear me doing the same in every day conversation. The cancer started in cities and spread to the rest of the rural areas. The reason I state it like that, is because this isn't restricted to your country. This happens mostly everywhere.

Then you get perceptions about 'way back then' was that those city folks were all turning atheist, abandoning church for their bisexual sex parties. That, the rural communities are told, is literally a sign of the Apocalypse. Not just due to the spiritual consequences (which are dire of course), but the devastation that would come to the culture. They can't imagine any rebuttal. In that place, at that time, the church was everything. Don't take my word for it -- listen to the experts here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/7960/age-religiosity-rural-america.aspx

" in smaller communities, churches are commonly among the only venues for large social gatherings. Churches may also act as the sole providers of counseling, aid to the poor, and social activities (even if those take the form of choir music and Christmas pageants) in rural communities. "

Church is where you make friends, meet girls, network for jobs, get social support. The poor could get food and clothes there, couples could get advice on their marriages, addicts could try to get clean. But now we're seeing a startling decline in Christianity among the general population, the godless disease having spread alongside Valley Girl talk. So according to Fox News, what's the result of those decadent, atheist, amoral snobs in the cities having turned their noses up at God?

Chaos.
The fabric has broken down, they say, just as predicted. And what rural Americans see on the news today is a sneak peek at their tomorrow.

The savages are coming.

Blacks riot, Muslims set bombs, gays spread AIDS, Mexican cartels behead children, atheists tear down Christmas trees. Meanwhile, those liberal Lena Dunhams in their $5,000-a-month apartments sip wine and say, "But those white Christians are the real problem!" Terror victims scream in the street next to their own severed limbs, and the response from the elites is to cry about how men should be allowed to use women's restrooms and how it's cruel to keep chickens in cages.

Madness. Their heads are so far up their asses that they can't tell up from down. Basic, obvious truths that have gone unquestioned for thousands of years now get laughed at and shouted down -- the fact that hard work is better than dependence on government, that children do better with both parents in the picture, that peace is better than rioting, that a strict moral code is better than blithe hedonism, that humans tend to value things they've earned more than what they get for free, that not getting exploded by a bomb is better than getting exploded by a bomb.

Or as they say out in the country, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining."

The foundation upon which America was undeniably built -- family, faith, and hard work -- had been deemed unfashionable and small-minded. Those snooty elites up in their ivory tower laughed as they kicked away that foundation, and then wrote 10,000-word thinkpieces blaming the builders for the ensuing collapse.

I know the Good Old Days of the past were built on slavery and segregation, I know that entire categories of humanity experienced religion only as a boot on their neck. I know that those "traditional families" involved millions of women trapped in kitchens and bad marriages. I know gays lived in fear and abortions were back-alley affairs.

I know the changes were for the best.

Try telling that to anybody who lives in Trump country, because that's the problem, they're getting the shit kicked out of them. Step outside of the city, and the suicide rate among young people fucking doubles. The recession pounded rural communities, but all the recovery went to the cities. The rate of new businesses opening in rural areas has utterly collapsed. See, rural jobs used to be based around one big local business -- a factory, a coal mine, etc. When it dies, the town dies. You hear stories like, ''Where I grew up, it was an oil refinery closing that did us in. I was raised in the hollowed-out shell of what the town had once been. The roof of our high school leaked when it rained." Cities can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs with service jobs -- small towns cannot. That model doesn't work below a certain population density.

If you don't live in one of these small towns, you can't understand the hopelessness. The vast majority of possible careers involve moving to the city, and around every city is now a hundred-foot wall called "Cost of Living." Let's say you're a smart kid making $8 an hour at Walgreen's and aspire to greater things. Fine, get ready to move yourself and your new baby into a 700-square-foot apartment for $1,200 a month, and to then pay double what you're paying now for utilities, groceries, and babysitters. Unless, of course, you're planning to move to one of "those" neighborhoods (hope you like being set on fire!).

In a city, you can plausibly aspire to start a band, or become an actor, or get a medical degree. You can actually have dreams. In a small town, there may be no venues for performing arts aside from country music bars and churches. There may only be two doctors in town -- aspiring to that job means waiting for one of them to retire or die. You open the classifieds and all of the job listings will be for fast food or convenience stores. The "downtown" is just the corpses of mom and pop stores left shattered in Walmart's blast crater, the "suburbs" are trailer parks. There are parts of these towns that look post-apocalyptic.

And if you dare complain, some liberal elite will pull out their iPad and type up a rant about your racist white privilege. Already, someone has replied to this with a comment saying, "You should try living in a ghetto as a minority!" Exactly. To them, it seems like the plight of poor minorities is only used as a club to bat away white cries for help. Meanwhile, the rate of rural white suicides and overdoses skyrockets. Shit, at least politicians act like they care about the inner cities, even though they don't.

It really does feel like the worst of both worlds: all the ravages of poverty, but none of the sympathy. "Blacks burn police cars, and those liberal elites say it's not their fault because they're poor. My son gets jailed and fired over a baggie of meth, and those same elites make jokes about his missing teeth!" I get it, rurual white people, you're everyone's punching bag, one of society's last remaining safe comedy targets. They take it hard. These are people who come from a long line of folks who took pride in looking after themselves. "Where I'm from, you weren't a real man unless you could repair a car, patch a roof, hunt your own meat, and defend your home from an intruder." It's a source of shame to be dependent on anyone -- especially the government. "You mowed your own lawn and fixed your own pipes when they leaked, you hauled your own firewood in your own pickup truck. "

Not like those hipsters in their tiny apartments, or "those people" in their public housing projects, waiting for the landlord any time something breaks, knowing if things get too bad they can just pick up and move. When you don't own anything, it's all somebody else's problem. "They probably don't pay taxes, either! Just treating America itself as a subsidized apartment they can trash!"

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I'm telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It's not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse. So yes, they vote for the guy promising to put things back the way they were, the guy who'd be a wake-up call to the blue islands. They voted for the brick through the window.

Trump supporters are just desperate and they barely know any better because of the reality that surrounds and permeates them.

It's because assholes are heroes to these people. You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get shit done? Who only get shit done because they don't care about the rules?

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy? Tune into any bit about Chris Christie and start counting down the seconds until the fat joke. Google David Letterman's sex scandals. But it's okay, because they're on our side, and everybody wants an asshole on their team -- a spiked bat to smash their enemies with. That's all Trump is. The howls of elite outrage are like the sounds of bombs landing on the enemy's fortress. The louder the better. Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?

It feels good to dismiss people, to mock them, to write them off as deplorable. But you might as well take time to try to understand them, because I'm telling you, they'll still be around long after Trump is gone.


You fucking yanks need to figure out a way to get along.
 
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Mr.BossMan

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I think is what FinnSimmons was getting at was rather simple. If the left and all of its marginalized groups keep saying they're discriminated against because their "feelings" say they are. Then eventually the right will have to clash with them and try to debunk all of this "subconscious" bias towards minorities, women, homosexuals and others.
 

Jabonicus

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Bias against gays/homosexuals is very real, considering Trump supports the removal of a bill that prevents people from discriminating against others because their religion says they can.
 

Nova Elgrin

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EDIT: Not sure if you're trolling or actually serious? Do you need that? Like for your ego you need to try and mock anonymous strangers online to comfort your ego? Are you that small? Is this a 'size of your genitals' kinda thing?

Right, because mocking someone's intelligence in response to their critique of your words, isn't motivated by an emotional response at all, who do you think you're kidding here, kid?
i

but mocking about someones genitales is incredibly mature I guess :) You should try to argue without getting so emotional :)
 

Logan

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Bias against gays/homosexuals is very real, considering Trump supports the removal of a bill that prevents people from discriminating against others because their religion says they can.
Not only that they can, but that they should.

It's really rather morally indefensible. They spout "love for all!" but they forget the part at the end "but only if you're just like me and believe what i believe!"
 

Kaeb

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but mocking about someones genitales is incredibly mature I guess :) You should try to argue without getting so emotional :)
Where are you cats even seeing emotion in a block of texts that expressly mocks the concept in a meta format? Do you cats understand subtext or...?

Are you also going to continue to ignore the facts or...?

This is sad.
 

Nova Elgrin

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I'm talking about the two quotes I'm giving you there. That's why I kinda quoted it....you know?
 

Kaeb

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I'm talking about the two quotes I'm giving you there. That's why I kinda quoted it....you know?

And I literally just addressed them? Did I say someone's cock was small, or did I say they were engaging in that kind of behaviour in a mockery of intelligence? I assume you're capable of comprehension of the English language right? You've gotten this far. If you cats are going to mock grammar and intellect, then display it, mate.

Christ lads.
 

Mr.BossMan

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Right, because mocking someone's intelligence in response to their critique of your words, isn't motivated by an emotional response at all, who do you think you're kidding here, kid? Where in any of my words would I have indicated that I was offended? The part where I pointed your offense out, or the part where I stated that such acts were below me? I'm not sure we're speaking the same language at all mate, I'll give you that.

You can play in the kiddy pool with your made up concepts of a conspiratorial far left, while the rest of adults talk like actual adults talk. There is no conspiratorial effort to push a leftist agenda, but gather around kids, and let me explain it to you.

I'm going to explain the Donald Trump phenomenon through some movies. And then some text.

There's this universal shorthand that epic adventure movies use to tell the good guys from the bad. The good guys are simple folk from the countryside, while the bad guys are decadent assholes who live in the city and wear stupid clothes. Luke Skywalker is a farmboy, Vader and the rest of the evils live on a shiny station wearing shiny clothes. Same goes for movies like Braveheart, or The Hunger Games. The theme expresses itself in several ways -- primitive vs. advanced, tough vs. delicate, masculine vs. feminine, poor vs. rich, pure vs. decadent, traditional vs. weird. All of it is code for rural vs. urban. That tense divide between the two doesn't exist because of these movies, obviously. These movies used it as shorthand because the divide already existed. The 'grizzled country folk' feel compelled to dislike the 'prissy elites'.

It's largely about what you're exposed to in your upbringing and where it takes place. See, political types talk about "red states" and "blue states" (where red = Republican/conservative and blue = Democrat/progressive), but forget about states. If you want to understand the Trump phenomenon, dig up the much more detailed county map. Here's how the nation voted county by county in the 2012 election -- again, red is Republican:

rNugZeG.jpg
Source here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

Holy cockslaps, that makes it look like Obama's blue party is some kind of fringe political faction that struggles to get 20 percent of the vote. The blue parts, however, are more densely populated -- they're the cities. In the upper left, you see the blue Seattle/Tacoma area, lower down is San Francisco and then L.A. The blue around the dick-shaped Lake Michigan is made of cities like Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago. In the northeast is, of course, New York and Boston, leading down into Philadelphia, which leads into a blue band which connects a bunch of southern cities like Charlotte and Atlanta. Blue islands in an ocean of red. The cities are less than 4 percent of the land mass, but 62 percent of the population and easily 99 percent of the popular culture. Our movies, shows, songs, and news all radiate out from those blue islands.

For outsiders looking in at these cities, the difference in culture astounds them. 'Their ways are strange' etc. Every TV show is about LA or New York, maybe with some Chicago or Baltimore thrown in. When they do make a show about rural areas, they're jokes -- either wide-eyed, naive fluffballs (Parks And Recreation, and before that, Newhart) or filthy murderous mutants (True Detective, and before that, Deliverance). This entrenched aspect of your culture can be interpeted as arragonce by those looking in. "Nothing that happens outside the city matters!" they say at their cocktail parties, blissfully unaware of where their food is grown. Hey, remember when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans? Kind of weird that a big hurricane hundreds of miles across managed to snipe one specific city and avoid everything else. To watch the news (or the multiple movies and TV shows about it), you'd barely hear about how the storm utterly steamrolled rural Mississippi, killing 238 people and doing an astounding $125 billion in damage.

But who cares about those people, right? What's newsworthy about a bunch of toothless hillbillies crying over a flattened trailer? New Orleans is culturally important. It matters. To those ignored, suffering people, Donald Trump is a brick chucked through the window of the elites. "Are you assholes listening now?" etc.

"But isn't this really about race? Aren't Trump supporters just a bunch of racists? Don't they hate cities because that's where the brown people live?"

Look, we're going to get actual Nazis on this forum. Actual Nazis. Those people exist.

But what I can say, from personal experience with people who grew up in rural southern communities, is that the racism of their youth was always one step removed. They didn't typically see a family member, friend, or classmate be mean to the actual black people in their town. They worked with them, played video games with them, waved to them when they passed. What I did hear was several million comments about how if you ever ventured into the city, winding up in the "wrong neighborhood" meant you'd get dragged from your car, raped, and burned alive. Looking back, I think the idea was that the local minorities were fine ... as long as they acted exactly like those same white southerners back home. And BECAUSE they were white, they were likely blind to the experiences actual minorities had during their day to day lives.

This shit is perpetuated through culture and permeates your media like a disease, fanning the flames, causing the people in these communities to fear white elites and ganbangers wearing hoodies and talking about **** the Police and shit. Even though that wasn't the point of those aspects of culture, that's how they were interpreted. Their ways are strange etc.

It's not just perception, either -- the stats back up the fact that these are parallel universes. People living in the countryside are twice as likely to own a gun and will probably get married younger. People in the urban "blue" areas talk faster and walk faster. They are more likely to be drug abusers but less likely to be alcoholics. The blues are less likely to own land and, most importantly, they're less likely to be Evangelical Christians. In the small towns, this often gets expressed as "They don't share our values!" and progressives love to scoff at that. "What, like illiteracy and homophobia?!?!"

Nope. Everything.

Then there are other contributing phenomenon. The cities are always living in the future. I remember when our little town got our first Chinese restaurant and, 20 years later, its first fancy coffee shop. All of this stuff had turned up in movies (set in L.A., of course) decades earlier. I remember watching '80s movies and mocking the "Valley Girl" stereotypes -- young girls from, like, California who would, like, say, "like" in between every third word. Twenty years later, you can hear me doing the same in every day conversation. The cancer started in cities and spread to the rest of the rural areas. The reason I state it like that, is because this isn't restricted to your country. This happens mostly everywhere.

Then you get perceptions about 'way back then' was that those city folks were all turning atheist, abandoning church for their bisexual sex parties. That, the rural communities are told, is literally a sign of the Apocalypse. Not just due to the spiritual consequences (which are dire of course), but the devastation that would come to the culture. They can't imagine any rebuttal. In that place, at that time, the church was everything. Don't take my word for it -- listen to the experts here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/7960/age-religiosity-rural-america.aspx

" in smaller communities, churches are commonly among the only venues for large social gatherings. Churches may also act as the sole providers of counseling, aid to the poor, and social activities (even if those take the form of choir music and Christmas pageants) in rural communities. "

Church is where you make friends, meet girls, network for jobs, get social support. The poor could get food and clothes there, couples could get advice on their marriages, addicts could try to get clean. But now we're seeing a startling decline in Christianity among the general population, the godless disease having spread alongside Valley Girl talk. So according to Fox News, what's the result of those decadent, atheist, amoral snobs in the cities having turned their noses up at God?

Chaos.
The fabric has broken down, they say, just as predicted. And what rural Americans see on the news today is a sneak peek at their tomorrow.

The savages are coming.

Blacks riot, Muslims set bombs, gays spread AIDS, Mexican cartels behead children, atheists tear down Christmas trees. Meanwhile, those liberal Lena Dunhams in their $5,000-a-month apartments sip wine and say, "But those white Christians are the real problem!" Terror victims scream in the street next to their own severed limbs, and the response from the elites is to cry about how men should be allowed to use women's restrooms and how it's cruel to keep chickens in cages.

Madness. Their heads are so far up their asses that they can't tell up from down. Basic, obvious truths that have gone unquestioned for thousands of years now get laughed at and shouted down -- the fact that hard work is better than dependence on government, that children do better with both parents in the picture, that peace is better than rioting, that a strict moral code is better than blithe hedonism, that humans tend to value things they've earned more than what they get for free, that not getting exploded by a bomb is better than getting exploded by a bomb.

Or as they say out in the country, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining."

The foundation upon which America was undeniably built -- family, faith, and hard work -- had been deemed unfashionable and small-minded. Those snooty elites up in their ivory tower laughed as they kicked away that foundation, and then wrote 10,000-word thinkpieces blaming the builders for the ensuing collapse.

I know the Good Old Days of the past were built on slavery and segregation, I know that entire categories of humanity experienced religion only as a boot on their neck. I know that those "traditional families" involved millions of women trapped in kitchens and bad marriages. I know gays lived in fear and abortions were back-alley affairs.

I know the changes were for the best.

Try telling that to anybody who lives in Trump country, because that's the problem, they're getting the shit kicked out of them. Step outside of the city, and the suicide rate among young people ******* doubles. The recession pounded rural communities, but all the recovery went to the cities. The rate of new businesses opening in rural areas has utterly collapsed. See, rural jobs used to be based around one big local business -- a factory, a coal mine, etc. When it dies, the town dies. You hear stories like, ''Where I grew up, it was an oil refinery closing that did us in. I was raised in the hollowed-out shell of what the town had once been. The roof of our high school leaked when it rained." Cities can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs with service jobs -- small towns cannot. That model doesn't work below a certain population density.

If you don't live in one of these small towns, you can't understand the hopelessness. The vast majority of possible careers involve moving to the city, and around every city is now a hundred-foot wall called "Cost of Living." Let's say you're a smart kid making $8 an hour at Walgreen's and aspire to greater things. Fine, get ready to move yourself and your new baby into a 700-square-foot apartment for $1,200 a month, and to then pay double what you're paying now for utilities, groceries, and babysitters. Unless, of course, you're planning to move to one of "those" neighborhoods (hope you like being set on fire!).

In a city, you can plausibly aspire to start a band, or become an actor, or get a medical degree. You can actually have dreams. In a small town, there may be no venues for performing arts aside from country music bars and churches. There may only be two doctors in town -- aspiring to that job means waiting for one of them to retire or die. You open the classifieds and all of the job listings will be for fast food or convenience stores. The "downtown" is just the corpses of mom and pop stores left shattered in Walmart's blast crater, the "suburbs" are trailer parks. There are parts of these towns that look post-apocalyptic.

And if you dare complain, some liberal elite will pull out their iPad and type up a rant about your racist white privilege. Already, someone has replied to this with a comment saying, "You should try living in a ghetto as a minority!" Exactly. To them, it seems like the plight of poor minorities is only used as a club to bat away white cries for help. Meanwhile, the rate of rural white suicides and overdoses skyrockets. Shit, at least politicians act like they care about the inner cities, even though they don't.

It really does feel like the worst of both worlds: all the ravages of poverty, but none of the sympathy. "Blacks burn police cars, and those liberal elites say it's not their fault because they're poor. My son gets jailed and fired over a baggie of meth, and those same elites make jokes about his missing teeth!" I get it, rurual white people, you're everyone's punching bag, one of society's last remaining safe comedy targets. They take it hard. These are people who come from a long line of folks who took pride in looking after themselves. "Where I'm from, you weren't a real man unless you could repair a car, patch a roof, hunt your own meat, and defend your home from an intruder." It's a source of shame to be dependent on anyone -- especially the government. "You mowed your own lawn and fixed your own pipes when they leaked, you hauled your own firewood in your own pickup truck. "

Not like those hipsters in their tiny apartments, or "those people" in their public housing projects, waiting for the landlord any time something breaks, knowing if things get too bad they can just pick up and move. When you don't own anything, it's all somebody else's problem. "They probably don't pay taxes, either! Just treating America itself as a subsidized apartment they can trash!"

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I'm telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It's not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse. So yes, they vote for the guy promising to put things back the way they were, the guy who'd be a wake-up call to the blue islands. They voted for the brick through the window.

Trump supporters are just desperate and they barely know any better because of the reality that surrounds and permeates them.

It's because assholes are heroes to these people. You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get shit done? Who only get shit done because they don't care about the rules?

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy? Tune into any bit about Chris Christie and start counting down the seconds until the fat joke. Google David Letterman's sex scandals. But it's okay, because they're on our side, and everybody wants an asshole on their team -- a spiked bat to smash their enemies with. That's all Trump is. The howls of elite outrage are like the sounds of bombs landing on the enemy's fortress. The louder the better. Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?

It feels good to dismiss people, to mock them, to write them off as deplorable. But you might as well take time to try to understand them, because I'm telling you, they'll still be around long after Trump is gone.


You ******* yanks need to figure out a way to get along.

I ain't gonna lie, this is funny.
 

Dmitri

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Let's keep this civil. There's no need to resort to name-calling, implied or explicit. This is a final warning. If participants in this thread cannot discuss the election respectfully, we will permanently lock this thread.
 

Kaeb

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Right, because mocking someone's intelligence in response to their critique of your words, isn't motivated by an emotional response at all, who do you think you're kidding here, kid? Where in any of my words would I have indicated that I was offended? The part where I pointed your offense out, or the part where I stated that such acts were below me? I'm not sure we're speaking the same language at all mate, I'll give you that.

You can play in the kiddy pool with your made up concepts of a conspiratorial far left, while the rest of adults talk like actual adults talk. There is no conspiratorial effort to push a leftist agenda, but gather around kids, and let me explain it to you.

I'm going to explain the Donald Trump phenomenon through some movies. And then some text.

There's this universal shorthand that epic adventure movies use to tell the good guys from the bad. The good guys are simple folk from the countryside, while the bad guys are decadent assholes who live in the city and wear stupid clothes. Luke Skywalker is a farmboy, Vader and the rest of the evils live on a shiny station wearing shiny clothes. Same goes for movies like Braveheart, or The Hunger Games. The theme expresses itself in several ways -- primitive vs. advanced, tough vs. delicate, masculine vs. feminine, poor vs. rich, pure vs. decadent, traditional vs. weird. All of it is code for rural vs. urban. That tense divide between the two doesn't exist because of these movies, obviously. These movies used it as shorthand because the divide already existed. The 'grizzled country folk' feel compelled to dislike the 'prissy elites'.

It's largely about what you're exposed to in your upbringing and where it takes place. See, political types talk about "red states" and "blue states" (where red = Republican/conservative and blue = Democrat/progressive), but forget about states. If you want to understand the Trump phenomenon, dig up the much more detailed county map. Here's how the nation voted county by county in the 2012 election -- again, red is Republican:

rNugZeG.jpg
Source here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/

Holy cockslaps, that makes it look like Obama's blue party is some kind of fringe political faction that struggles to get 20 percent of the vote. The blue parts, however, are more densely populated -- they're the cities. In the upper left, you see the blue Seattle/Tacoma area, lower down is San Francisco and then L.A. The blue around the dick-shaped Lake Michigan is made of cities like Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago. In the northeast is, of course, New York and Boston, leading down into Philadelphia, which leads into a blue band which connects a bunch of southern cities like Charlotte and Atlanta. Blue islands in an ocean of red. The cities are less than 4 percent of the land mass, but 62 percent of the population and easily 99 percent of the popular culture. Our movies, shows, songs, and news all radiate out from those blue islands.

For outsiders looking in at these cities, the difference in culture astounds them. 'Their ways are strange' etc. Every TV show is about LA or New York, maybe with some Chicago or Baltimore thrown in. When they do make a show about rural areas, they're jokes -- either wide-eyed, naive fluffballs (Parks And Recreation, and before that, Newhart) or filthy murderous mutants (True Detective, and before that, Deliverance). This entrenched aspect of your culture can be interpeted as arragonce by those looking in. "Nothing that happens outside the city matters!" they say at their cocktail parties, blissfully unaware of where their food is grown. Hey, remember when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans? Kind of weird that a big hurricane hundreds of miles across managed to snipe one specific city and avoid everything else. To watch the news (or the multiple movies and TV shows about it), you'd barely hear about how the storm utterly steamrolled rural Mississippi, killing 238 people and doing an astounding $125 billion in damage.

But who cares about those people, right? What's newsworthy about a bunch of toothless hillbillies crying over a flattened trailer? New Orleans is culturally important. It matters. To those ignored, suffering people, Donald Trump is a brick chucked through the window of the elites. "Are you assholes listening now?" etc.

"But isn't this really about race? Aren't Trump supporters just a bunch of racists? Don't they hate cities because that's where the brown people live?"

Look, we're going to get actual Nazis on this forum. Actual Nazis. Those people exist.

But what I can say, from personal experience with people who grew up in rural southern communities, is that the racism of their youth was always one step removed. They didn't typically see a family member, friend, or classmate be mean to the actual black people in their town. They worked with them, played video games with them, waved to them when they passed. What I did hear was several million comments about how if you ever ventured into the city, winding up in the "wrong neighborhood" meant you'd get dragged from your car, raped, and burned alive. Looking back, I think the idea was that the local minorities were fine ... as long as they acted exactly like those same white southerners back home. And BECAUSE they were white, they were likely blind to the experiences actual minorities had during their day to day lives.

This shit is perpetuated through culture and permeates your media like a disease, fanning the flames, causing the people in these communities to fear white elites and ganbangers wearing hoodies and talking about **** the Police and shit. Even though that wasn't the point of those aspects of culture, that's how they were interpreted. Their ways are strange etc.

It's not just perception, either -- the stats back up the fact that these are parallel universes. People living in the countryside are twice as likely to own a gun and will probably get married younger. People in the urban "blue" areas talk faster and walk faster. They are more likely to be drug abusers but less likely to be alcoholics. The blues are less likely to own land and, most importantly, they're less likely to be Evangelical Christians. In the small towns, this often gets expressed as "They don't share our values!" and progressives love to scoff at that. "What, like illiteracy and homophobia?!?!"

Nope. Everything.

Then there are other contributing phenomenon. The cities are always living in the future. I remember when our little town got our first Chinese restaurant and, 20 years later, its first fancy coffee shop. All of this stuff had turned up in movies (set in L.A., of course) decades earlier. I remember watching '80s movies and mocking the "Valley Girl" stereotypes -- young girls from, like, California who would, like, say, "like" in between every third word. Twenty years later, you can hear me doing the same in every day conversation. The cancer started in cities and spread to the rest of the rural areas. The reason I state it like that, is because this isn't restricted to your country. This happens mostly everywhere.

Then you get perceptions about 'way back then' was that those city folks were all turning atheist, abandoning church for their bisexual sex parties. That, the rural communities are told, is literally a sign of the Apocalypse. Not just due to the spiritual consequences (which are dire of course), but the devastation that would come to the culture. They can't imagine any rebuttal. In that place, at that time, the church was everything. Don't take my word for it -- listen to the experts here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/7960/age-religiosity-rural-america.aspx

" in smaller communities, churches are commonly among the only venues for large social gatherings. Churches may also act as the sole providers of counseling, aid to the poor, and social activities (even if those take the form of choir music and Christmas pageants) in rural communities. "

Church is where you make friends, meet girls, network for jobs, get social support. The poor could get food and clothes there, couples could get advice on their marriages, addicts could try to get clean. But now we're seeing a startling decline in Christianity among the general population, the godless disease having spread alongside Valley Girl talk. So according to Fox News, what's the result of those decadent, atheist, amoral snobs in the cities having turned their noses up at God?

Chaos.
The fabric has broken down, they say, just as predicted. And what rural Americans see on the news today is a sneak peek at their tomorrow.

The savages are coming.

Blacks riot, Muslims set bombs, gays spread AIDS, Mexican cartels behead children, atheists tear down Christmas trees. Meanwhile, those liberal Lena Dunhams in their $5,000-a-month apartments sip wine and say, "But those white Christians are the real problem!" Terror victims scream in the street next to their own severed limbs, and the response from the elites is to cry about how men should be allowed to use women's restrooms and how it's cruel to keep chickens in cages.

Madness. Their heads are so far up their asses that they can't tell up from down. Basic, obvious truths that have gone unquestioned for thousands of years now get laughed at and shouted down -- the fact that hard work is better than dependence on government, that children do better with both parents in the picture, that peace is better than rioting, that a strict moral code is better than blithe hedonism, that humans tend to value things they've earned more than what they get for free, that not getting exploded by a bomb is better than getting exploded by a bomb.

Or as they say out in the country, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining."

The foundation upon which America was undeniably built -- family, faith, and hard work -- had been deemed unfashionable and small-minded. Those snooty elites up in their ivory tower laughed as they kicked away that foundation, and then wrote 10,000-word thinkpieces blaming the builders for the ensuing collapse.

I know the Good Old Days of the past were built on slavery and segregation, I know that entire categories of humanity experienced religion only as a boot on their neck. I know that those "traditional families" involved millions of women trapped in kitchens and bad marriages. I know gays lived in fear and abortions were back-alley affairs.

I know the changes were for the best.

Try telling that to anybody who lives in Trump country, because that's the problem, they're getting the shit kicked out of them. Step outside of the city, and the suicide rate among young people ******* doubles. The recession pounded rural communities, but all the recovery went to the cities. The rate of new businesses opening in rural areas has utterly collapsed. See, rural jobs used to be based around one big local business -- a factory, a coal mine, etc. When it dies, the town dies. You hear stories like, ''Where I grew up, it was an oil refinery closing that did us in. I was raised in the hollowed-out shell of what the town had once been. The roof of our high school leaked when it rained." Cities can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs with service jobs -- small towns cannot. That model doesn't work below a certain population density.

If you don't live in one of these small towns, you can't understand the hopelessness. The vast majority of possible careers involve moving to the city, and around every city is now a hundred-foot wall called "Cost of Living." Let's say you're a smart kid making $8 an hour at Walgreen's and aspire to greater things. Fine, get ready to move yourself and your new baby into a 700-square-foot apartment for $1,200 a month, and to then pay double what you're paying now for utilities, groceries, and babysitters. Unless, of course, you're planning to move to one of "those" neighborhoods (hope you like being set on fire!).

In a city, you can plausibly aspire to start a band, or become an actor, or get a medical degree. You can actually have dreams. In a small town, there may be no venues for performing arts aside from country music bars and churches. There may only be two doctors in town -- aspiring to that job means waiting for one of them to retire or die. You open the classifieds and all of the job listings will be for fast food or convenience stores. The "downtown" is just the corpses of mom and pop stores left shattered in Walmart's blast crater, the "suburbs" are trailer parks. There are parts of these towns that look post-apocalyptic.

And if you dare complain, some liberal elite will pull out their iPad and type up a rant about your racist white privilege. Already, someone has replied to this with a comment saying, "You should try living in a ghetto as a minority!" Exactly. To them, it seems like the plight of poor minorities is only used as a club to bat away white cries for help. Meanwhile, the rate of rural white suicides and overdoses skyrockets. Shit, at least politicians act like they care about the inner cities, even though they don't.

It really does feel like the worst of both worlds: all the ravages of poverty, but none of the sympathy. "Blacks burn police cars, and those liberal elites say it's not their fault because they're poor. My son gets jailed and fired over a baggie of meth, and those same elites make jokes about his missing teeth!" I get it, rurual white people, you're everyone's punching bag, one of society's last remaining safe comedy targets. They take it hard. These are people who come from a long line of folks who took pride in looking after themselves. "Where I'm from, you weren't a real man unless you could repair a car, patch a roof, hunt your own meat, and defend your home from an intruder." It's a source of shame to be dependent on anyone -- especially the government. "You mowed your own lawn and fixed your own pipes when they leaked, you hauled your own firewood in your own pickup truck. "

Not like those hipsters in their tiny apartments, or "those people" in their public housing projects, waiting for the landlord any time something breaks, knowing if things get too bad they can just pick up and move. When you don't own anything, it's all somebody else's problem. "They probably don't pay taxes, either! Just treating America itself as a subsidized apartment they can trash!"

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I'm telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It's not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse. So yes, they vote for the guy promising to put things back the way they were, the guy who'd be a wake-up call to the blue islands. They voted for the brick through the window.

Trump supporters are just desperate and they barely know any better because of the reality that surrounds and permeates them.

It's because assholes are heroes to these people. You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get shit done? Who only get shit done because they don't care about the rules?

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy? Tune into any bit about Chris Christie and start counting down the seconds until the fat joke. Google David Letterman's sex scandals. But it's okay, because they're on our side, and everybody wants an asshole on their team -- a spiked bat to smash their enemies with. That's all Trump is. The howls of elite outrage are like the sounds of bombs landing on the enemy's fortress. The louder the better. Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?

It feels good to dismiss people, to mock them, to write them off as deplorable. But you might as well take time to try to understand them, because I'm telling you, they'll still be around long after Trump is gone.


You ******* yanks need to figure out a way to get along.
Keeping this in the loop. Click on it etc.
 

Nova Elgrin

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No you're addressing the block of text underneath. I'm not gonna quote you here as I don't see your language fit for a PG 13 board, but as you were talking about genitals you kinda went that road yeah.
Oh I never stated I was Christian. I don't even know why you're bringing this up.

Let's keep this civil. There's no need to resort to name-calling, implied or explicit. This is a final warning. If participants in this thread cannot discuss the election respectfully, we will permanently lock this thread.

to be honest I really think you should go for it. Politics is something that gets people really mad really quickly (I don't even say I'm the big expection) and this board is for fun and building a community that enjoys the fandom right? : )
 

Mr.BossMan

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They spout "love for all!" but they forget the part at the end "but only if you're just like me and believe what i believe!"

Your statement above literally goes both ways. Do you see this or nah?
 

Kaeb

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Rude behavior will not be tolerated. Everyone had already been warned.
No you're addressed the block of text underneath. I'm not gonna quote you here as I don't see your language fit for a PG 13 board, but as you were talking about genitals you kinda went that road yeah.
Oh I never stated I was Christian. I don't even know why you're bringing this up.
The language is fucking censored, how is talking about genitals wrong and where in the hell did I mention religion?
I accused someone of a dick measuring contest instead of engaging the debate and called them childish for doing so, that enough for you folks or do you need me to spell it out further?

Christ.
Spare me the quotations with blind eyes.
 

Kaane

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I don't think I've ever read something that so honestly told it like it was. Ty for taking the time to say it Kaeb.

Generally what you said is why I'm against gender and identity politics. It perpetuates and worsens the exact problems you're talking about, and prevent people who should be united from actually working together.

People who talk about white privilege like it's a pervasive all-encompassing thing make me want to fucking scream.

EDIT: Quick addendum to remind people I'm gay and I support marriage equality. Just because i'm against this pervasive sort of cancerous, one-sided thinking does not mean i'm against social progress ffs
 

Logan

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Your statement above literally goes both ways. Do you see this or nah?
I don't attempt to force my beliefs on anyone. I could give 2 shits if you believe in a magical bearded man genie in the sky, but I start to care when those beliefs effect people who do not believe them.
 

Kaeb

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I don't think I've ever read something that so honestly told it like it was. Ty for taking the time to say it Kaeb.
Thanks, I just wish the rest of these folks would actually read it.
 

Kaane

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Thanks, I just wish the rest of these folks would actually read it.

It was honestly eye-opening. I've never really perceived the divide in our society to be like that, and while I hear a lot of arguments out of christianity or what I see as ignorance that makes me dismiss them instantly, yours was perhaps the most lucid, well-thought out argument for people living in rural areas.

I wish more people would read it too.
 
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