War Games OOC

[Caught in Strangereal]

@Nefieslab I made a quick edit if that's satisfactory for you

 

[The Good Doctor]

@KinkyPrawn your timing appears to be off. Birdmando and Vil's shots would be overlapping. Vil would be firing right after Birdmando jumps

Viladous' mind ticked over as he too watched the Sith Lord raise his hand towards Birdmando. It was not going to be the Sith's day it seemed. Birdmando had taken flight his shots hurling towards the Sith's Chest and Viladous' blaster fire would meet them in the upper torso also!

so this means our attacks overlapping

As his strafe angled him onto the opposite side from the opponent lightsaber he would slow his straife down, his distance having closed on his opponent considerably which would only help his accuracy as he let off two of his own shots from his blaster rifle

And by this point Vil has already closed in

So, if Mid is trying to accurately reflect blaster bolts from one person, that means he'd be leaving himself open to Vil, who's shots would be landing in the timeframe Mid would be reflecting blaster bolts.

And before you say traveling in heavy armor would have slown down his movements, this timeframe was canonized via posting and should have been disputed if you felt it was off. So Mid doesn't have all in the time in the world to react before Vil's attacks considering mine and his overlap.

P.S. Wearing heavy armor doesn't inherently slow down the wearer, only it's taxing to run in and can't do acrobatics .etc

The Rishii (@Faster Than Light) fired two shots at him before he could release the lightning. With his lightsaber already at the ready he deflected the bolts upwards and released the lightning.

...

Likewise, the jump wouldn't help at all to evade the lightning.

Well, I already evaded it (it was confirmed via posting) And you can't negate your own attack and say it hit anyways too lol. Those are two very mutually exclusive things. And even though you stated in your previous post your character was ready to adjust for movement, that's not an action that happened as well. Ready to do something =/= actually doing it. You'd have to continue your lightning for this post as well, you can't treat my character as being autohit.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

@KinkyPrawn your timing appears to be off. Birdmando and Vil's shots would be overlapping. Vil would be firing right after Birdmando jumps



so this means our attacks overlapping



And by this point Vil has already closed in

So, if Mid is trying to accurately reflect blaster bolts from one person, that means he'd be leaving himself open to Vil, who's shots would be landing in the timeframe Mid would be reflecting blaster bolts.

And before you say traveling in heavy armor would have slown down his movements, this timeframe was canonized via posting and should have been disputed if you felt it was off. So Mid doesn't have all in the time in the world to react before Vil's attacks considering mine and his overlap.

P.S. Wearing heavy armor doesn't inherently slow down the wearer, only it's taxing to run in and can't do acrobatics .etc



Well, I already evaded it (it was confirmed via posting) And you can't negate your own attack and say it hit anyways too lol. Those are two very mutually exclusive things. And even though you stated in your previous post your character was ready to adjust for movement, that's not an action that happened as well. Ready to do something =/= actually doing it. You'd have to continue your lightning for this post as well, you can't treat my character as being autohit.

I'm going out right now so I'll be arguing it in a bit. But in short, you're saying that Vil covered 30 meters in the same time it took Parek to jump. So either Vil's legs go all the way up or Parek took his sweet time to jump.

And you're right. You dodged...i just lifted my hand to intercept.

I'll elaborate a bit later, but that's the short version

 

[The Good Doctor]

I'm going out right now so I'll be arguing it in a bit. But in short, you're saying that Vil covered 30 meters in the same time it took Parek to jump. So either Vil's legs go all the way up or Parek took his sweet time to jump.

And you're right. You dodged...i just lifted my hand to intercept.

I'll elaborate a bit later, but that's the short version

• It probably is a stretch (i'd have to re-read the posts again but I'm about to go to work) but usually even if something is a stretch and the opponent's reply to it it's still canonized
• So, my blaster shots and your force lightning happen are starting to be committed to at the same. So if you are releasing lightning to defend, then how then are you lifting your lightning to hit me in the air?

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Ok turns out I won't be arguing now. I'll be out for dinner but I'll be up later tonight.

I'll list my argument and explanations then to the best of my abilities(might be mildly drunk by then XD)

 

[Nefieslab]

... please dont pvp OOC drunk >.>

 

[The Good Doctor]

No worries Kinky. I'll respond after work probably

 

[Nefieslab]

No worries Kinky. I'll respond after work probably

Just so long as you dont do it after the after work cocktails ;)

 

[Tsunami]

So the initial part is my movement, I am strafing proactively, not reactively. I mention the blaster bolts because I have to in order to make a dodge on this site. It was meant to be explaining that I had fired and then began a strafing run :

"Viladous was lucky that he was at such a range that the deflected blaster bolt travel time would not be too hard to dodge, however the clever positioning of the Sith meant that he had put Birdmando in the way of any more shots being fired.

His dodge of the blaster bolts became that of a straifing run, his body still angled towards the Sith Lord, his rifle leveled and a good awareness of the on going battle around him."

This middle section is my movements and observations while moving across the ground. Bare in mind that during this time, FTL is also covering ground and that as he jumps, there is also going to be a period of time in which I won't have shot due to him still being in my LOS as I mentioned in the post:

"Viladous' mind ticked over as he too watched the Sith Lord raise his hand towards Birdmando. It was not going to be the Sith's day it seemed. Birdmando had taken flight his shots hurling towards the Sith's Chest and Viladous' blaster fire would meet them in the upper torso also! As his straife angled him onto the opposite side from the opponent lightsaber he would slow his straife down, his distance having closed on his opponent considerably which would only help his accuracy as he let off two of his own shots from his blaster rifle. (20m)"

In terms of the rest of the post. I think you are quite right that I am in the open, however I am ready to move.

This is shaping up to be interesting though! I like it!

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Ok I think we're having different understandings of how things play out. Here's how I understood it.

Here Vil confirms being 50 meters away and standing around like a daisy:

What an interesting surprise that their dramatic entrance would be ruined by... another gobby and slightly cliché Sith team up. He found it ironic that the Sith doing all the talking was speaking about fighting like a warrior, while being 50 meters away. Showing no interest in taking the fight to the Mandalorian's that had crashed the party.

"Big words, just be glad your skin is red. You ain't going to notice the spanking we about to put down on your arse." As he said this, he brought his weapon to his shoulder, popping up and taking a confident aim on the mouthy Sith Lord. He was ready to put some rounds down field and cover his comrades as soon as they were ready, but he was not going to fire just yet... For the moment, his actions would be reactive, just as ready to go on the defensive as he was to go on the offensive.

"Hmph" he mumbled out loud, a smirk hidden behind his helmet had begun to show. He was ready, for anything that was about to come his way, confident that he and his Mandalorian Brethren could handle whatever they faced.

Here Parek confirms he's starting to run:

Parek was going to fly up and cause some damage after after the shot would have landed, but with the Sith Lord and the other Sith on the field he will have to approach this differently. Switching his jet boots for combat mode and drawing beskad in his left hand, he would then quickly get around the rock he was taking cover behind and then charge towards the Sith Lord, not going too fast because he isn't rushing into this battle. His keen eyes have both of the Sith in his view, and his blaster carbine in his right hand would already be leveled, ready to fire at a given moment.

Parek would know that his partner already fired some blaster bolts. In case any would be deflect back at the birb it wouldn't be difficult to dodge them. He'd be ready to react to whatever the Sith might try and do.

The sniper rounds coming at Mid is crossing 50 meters, roughly just under 2 seconds. In that time, Vil has been standing there and looking at Mid while Parek has been running to close distance.

Here's Mid deflecting those bolts:

Two shots were fired at him, hardly a threat. He deflected the shots effortlessly right at the overconfident grunt (@Tsunami), intent on hitting his chest and gut while he's still babbling away and getting ready to fire.

Now after this, both Parek and Vil confirmed seeing the bolts getting deflected. Tho their current actions are vastly different.

Parek saw them but kept on course. So he got a bigass headstart on Vil in terms of crossing the 50 meters. Plus he's already responding at 30 meters since that's when Mid shocked. That's also when he reacts.(I took out the rest of the stuff to pull up the relevant stuff hence the ellipse)

Parek saw the blaster bolts from the cat Kelborn being deflected, they weren't at the birdmando though. When he moved, Parek kept on course, was still ready for anything that the Sith would try and pull.

...

Firing two shots from his blaster at the Sith Lord, he'd aim for the Sith Lord's chest. His blaster was already leveled and pointed at the Sith Lord. Parek would also jump, then his jet boots in combat mode and propel him upwards, avoiding the force lightning entirely, with the torrent passing right underneath him.

While Parek reacted a lot earlier and got a head start, Vil only moved when the bolts came at him. This also confirms that he was running for 30 meters and only stopped to fire at 20 meters from Mid. Not any earlier. And if that part about firing at Mid's torso is meant to be where he shoots, there was nothing stating that he fired at that distance. Only the 20 meters.

Viladous was lucky that he was at such a range that the deflected blaster bolt travel time would not be too hard to dodge, however the clever positioning of the Sith meant that he had put Birdmando in the way of any more shots being fired.

His dodge of the blaster bolts became that of a strafing run, his body still angled towards the Sith Lord, his rifle leveled and a good awareness of the ongoing battle around him.

Viladous' mind ticked over as he too watched the Sith Lord raise his hand towards Birdmando. It was not going to be the Sith's day it seemed. Birdmando had taken flight his shots hurling towards the Sith's Chest and Viladous' blaster fire would meet them in the upper torso also! As his strafe angled him onto the opposite side from the opponent lightsaber he would slow his strafe down, his distance having closed on his opponent considerably which would only help his accuracy as he let off two of his own shots from his blaster rifle. (20m)

So going by this, Parek had a significant head start on Vil. And when he flew into the air, Vil was still running. Thus Mid had time to intercept Parek with his own bolts as well as to simply lift his hand up to intercept Parek as he was still trying to get into the air. GRANTED my post did make it look like he didn't do it at all and it kind of reads like an autohit not that that stopped Tsunami from writing one so I guess I can go back and edit it for you to read a little smoother.

But overall, according to how this is layed out, there's no way at all that Vil could shoot from 20 meters at the same time as Parek shot from 30 or so. He would still be running to get to 20 meters while Mid is swamping Parek, thus being wide open for an interrupt from his shots.

REALLY SORRY if this came off as a bigass nitpick fest I HATE picking stuff apart like this, but I think it was necessary for us all to get on the same page of how we're viewing the timeline of events between the 3 of us thus far.

@Nefieslab
@Tsunami @Faster Than Light

 

[Tsunami]

@KinkyPrawn don't worry about not picking as long as it's not a slug fest of complaining which is when I switch off!

In reply to what you are saying, I see where you are coming from, but what you state is that Parek is running towards you from 30m to 0m and I'm running 50m to 20m in that same time frame.

As I'm closing that gap is when he's jumping at which point well be hitting 20m and then popping shots off.

This is why it's hard some times because it's not easy to see what both sides are reading! :(

 

[KinkyPrawn]

@KinkyPrawn don't worry about not picking as long as it's not a slug fest of complaining which is when I switch off!

In reply to what you are saying, I see where you are coming from, but what you state is that Parek is running towards you from 30m to 0m and I'm running 50m to 20m in that same time frame.

As I'm closing that gap is when he's jumping at which point well be hitting 20m and then popping shots off.

This is why it's hard some times because it's not easy to see what both sides are reading! :(

No no I'm saying he went from 50 to 30 meters. Tho he started running a lot earlier than you so he got a big lead before you hit 20 meters

That's why I'm saying that with how it's laid out you can't arrive at your spots at the same time to shoot at the same time at me.

 

[Tsunami]

No no I'm saying he went from 50 to 30 meters. Tho he started running a lot earlier than you so he got a big lead before you hit 20 meters

That's why I'm saying that with how it's laid out you can't arrive at your spots at the same time to shoot at the same time at me.

Yeah but he then takes flight which adds a period of time, before my shots are then fired. The shots are not fired at the exact same time, but the quick succession of them should be noted; you are -
1) Accurately Returning 2 Blaster Bolts
2) Raising and channeling a Force Lightning
3) Drawing a Blaster and Shooting it
4) Turning and Shooting Again

That's alot to do in 30m of running. 30m is nothing, even with armour on.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Yeah but he then takes flight which adds a period of time, before my shots are then fired. The shots are not fired at the exact same time, but the quick succession of them should be noted; you are -
1) Accurately Returning 2 Blaster Bolts
2) Raising and channeling a Force Lightning
3) Drawing a Blaster and Shooting it
4) Turning and Shooting Again

That's alot to do in 30m of running. 30m is nothing, even with armour on.

Ok I think I see the confusion. I might need to edit

Using jet boots doesn't take time. The person only has to jump up or hit a button to yeet off into the air. So that's not going to take any extra time whatsoever. It's all happening at 30 meters as he's running.

Now for that list, it won't take any longer than 5 seconds. Blocking 2 bolts doesn't take effort. And given my dude is a level 3 I think blocking those shots and deflecting accurately is well within his capabilities. As for the lightning, that's just lifting his hand to follow Parek. That can all happen in the span of 1 second. Then he maintains that lightning for a second or two. Drawing a pistol and firing a shot can happen in less than a second as well. Then following up with a second shot also doesn't take any effort. Plus he isn't turning, he's just extending his arm out to his right to fire. Exactly the direction you stated you were going when you started running.

So we're talking about ~5 seconds here at most. That's still faster than a person can run 30 meters with full gear and with a rifle in hand.

I can edit the time at which I'm shooting at you, but I'm still standing by my point that I can shoot and hit you before you're able to get a shot in to interrupt you.

 

[Tsunami]

It's not about the effort, but about the motion and time of motion in which you would have to have done to accurately send two blaster bolts back at there sender.

Yes it might be a second or two, which is still quick. It is going to take that time to do.

The lifting of the hand again implies that there is a motion upwards for 1 - 2 seconds that would have to be fairly sparadic if we are (as you state) considering that Patel is taking flight and getting up high almost instantly. With that same hand you have then got to move it to the location of your blaster, pull the blaster out and raise that hand once again to fire a shot, an aimed shot, regardless of how long it takes will take time off of that count.

I'm not saying that what your doing is taking minutes but if it's;

2 seconds to return the fire Accurately.
2 seconds to fry Parek as he is coming up
1 second to put your hand down to grab the blaster.
1 second to raise the blaster towards my location.
.5 second to aim (which is generous seeing as your shooting a moving target)
Then pulling the trigger and the travel time of those rounds.

So we're looking at around 6.5 seconds, for a person who is chocked full of adrenaline to move 30m. Considering I can swim a length of a swimming pool in 11, and that is 25m I think that this time is going to be alot closer than you think.

I'm happy with anything though, I just think there are some wires crossed and the difference in ability of levels are certainly to be considered!

 

[KinkyPrawn]

It's not about the effort, but about the motion and time of motion in which you would have to have done to accurately send two blaster bolts back at there sender.

Yes it might be a second or two, which is still quick. It is going to take that time to do.

The lifting of the hand again implies that there is a motion upwards for 1 - 2 seconds that would have to be fairly sparadic if we are (as you state) considering that Patel is taking flight and getting up high almost instantly. With that same hand you have then got to move it to the location of your blaster, pull the blaster out and raise that hand once again to fire a shot, an aimed shot, regardless of how long it takes will take time off of that count.

I'm not saying that what your doing is taking minutes but if it's;

2 seconds to return the fire Accurately.
2 seconds to fry Parek as he is coming up
1 second to put your hand down to grab the blaster.
1 second to raise the blaster towards my location.
.5 second to aim (which is generous seeing as your shooting a moving target)
Then pulling the trigger and the travel time of those rounds.

So we're looking at around 6.5 seconds, for a person who is chocked full of adrenaline to move 30m. Considering I can swim a length of a swimming pool in 11, and that is 25m I think that this time is going to be alot closer than you think.

I'm happy with anything though, I just think there are some wires crossed and the difference in ability of levels are certainly to be considered!

I think I did mention in my post he didn't drop his right hand to draw. He uses the force to pull his pistol to his hand which totally cancels out the need to drop his hand and lose target. The thing just slaps into his hand so he could fire immediately. Also keep in mind he's a force sensitive. So he's able to use the force to guide his aim instead of manually trailing and targeting. He can anticipate quite accurately where you're gonna end up before he shoots.

And as I also stated, blocking 2 bolts won't take 2 seconds. If you're talking travel time, that would also shorten since he would be inside of 30 meters by the time the bolts collide. And lifting the hand to shoot lightning bolts won't take effort at all. That would be laughable if it took seconds to lift your hand to use a force power.

And that swimming speed is irrelevant in this scenario. There's a big difference between land and water and how to move from A to B on either. Unless your character is a twig with legs all the way up he's not crossing 30 meters faster than that. Even at 6.5 seconds. Your character also had a standing start which plays into that as well.

But this is turning into a nitpick at this point. We're talking fractions of time right now. I gave my reason for why I think my dude can take both of you down. Like I said, I can edit when I'm firing. But I'm still confident it will be beating you from firing your rifle. And if we wanna consider ability of levels, I think we can all agree my dude is a lot more skilled and powerful than anyone in the PvP.

 

[Tsunami]

My character didn't have a standing start, the start of my post states that as soon as I'd fired I'd started moving, and that is the reason my character was not worried about the bolts come back to bite me.

Also is this actually how Force Sensitivity works? Marksmanship is a perishable skill... If that's something that can be avoided by force sensitivity then i'll just make force sensitives from now on

Yeah I don't particularly fancy a continued debate here, it's hard for me to stomach someone saying 30m with 30kg spreads across the body slows people down as much as anyone says - I comfortably run with my kit on and that makes 30kg seem light, and that is all on my back and waist and in a situation where this is the only bit of exersion characters here are having thus far then I don't even know what we are roleplaying here, it's just not logical.

However - I can only state for my character. Regardless of if I think you can or can't perform these things or not I don't want to argue about it

As long as the others are happy, I'm just going to roll with the punches. I won't be posting here now unless to confirm something asked of me, I can't argue the difference between what is physically possible by a fit robust soldier (being one who carries more kit than my character with the characters size and weight built on myself) or what is possible in star wars.

 

[The Good Doctor]

It still seems strange that just committing to 30 meters lightning with such power behind it K is able to manage accurate blaster reflections, canceling lightning while perfectly tracking my movements (its how (you'd need precog to be able to predict my movements to perfectly track my rather abrupt movements). Any of the admins can attest that 30 meters is not a good distance to use force lightning, not to mention the concentration you'd have to put behind it even at level three. (in canon it's only used at much shorter distance). Pretty sure by the time the lightning would hit me the bolts would be hitting you at the same time or very close to it (a split second's difference) And remember even as a level 3 using two force powers (accurate blaster deflections need help of the force to be possible, refllexes, sense, .etc) dulls the effectiveness/power of both.

@KinkyPrawn thoughts?

 

[KinkyPrawn]

My character didn't have a standing start, the start of my post states that as soon as I'd fired I'd started moving, and that is the reason my character was not worried about the bolts come back to bite me.

Also is this actually how Force Sensitivity works? Marksmanship is a perishable skill... If that's something that can be avoided by force sensitivity then i'll just make force sensitives from now on

Yeah I don't particularly fancy a continued debate here, it's hard for me to stomach someone saying 30m with 30kg spreads across the body slows people down as much as anyone says - I comfortably run with my kit on and that makes 30kg seem light, and that is all on my back and waist and in a situation where this is the only bit of exertion characters here are having thus far then I don't even know what we are roleplaying here, it's just not logical.

However - I can only state for my character. Regardless of if I think you can or can't perform these things or not I don't want to argue about it

As long as the others are happy, I'm just going to roll with the punches. I won't be posting here now unless to confirm something asked of me, I can't argue the difference between what is physically possible by a fit robust soldier (being one who carries more kit than my character with the characters size and weight built on myself) or what is possible in star wars.

Ok that's way off. Never did you state you fired. You stated that you were aiming and then after I deflected Revy's bolts you started to run. You never stated that you fired. So that's invalid. And you also stated you only started to strafe to avoid Revy's shots after I deflected.

The issue is not that I'm FS. The issue is that I'm a level 3 FS. That is a significant step up from any other thing on this PvP, both FS and NFS. And the whole thing about FS is that they can predict and anticipate stuff. That's how they can block bolts accurately and that's how they can do stuff even before it happened. That's how Anakin can be an amazing pod racer without any training. THAT is my argument. As a level 3 my dude is more than capable of deflecting bolts accurately and doing other stuff including taking aim at a point before you arrived.

My argument isn't that running with all that gear can't be done. My argument is that you can't run that fast for that range. I'm arguing that a person can't even run that range in 7 seconds.

It still seems strange that just committing to 30 meters lightning with such power behind it K is able to manage accurate blaster reflections, canceling lightning while perfectly tracking my movements (its how (you'd need precog to be able to predict my movements to perfectly track my rather abrupt movements). Any of the admins can attest that 30 meters is not a good distance to use force lightning, not to mention the concentration you'd have to put behind it even at level three. (in canon it's only used at much shorter distance). Pretty sure by the time the lightning would hit me the bolts would be hitting you at the same time or very close to it (a split second's difference) And remember even as a level 3 using two force powers (accurate blaster deflections need help of the force to be possible, refllexes, sense, .etc) dulls the effectiveness/power of both.

@KinkyPrawn thoughts?

I won't argue I figured that was a hell of a range for force lightning. However I'd argue that following a target within 30 meters like Parek would be in his capabilities. I also stated that my dude can cut the power in case you tried something(a predictable move).

BUT you got an argument there. The lightning is a bit much at that range SO I'm willing to edit that part in favour of another approach. So if you guys are coolio I can go back and edit that for something else. I can definitely see that argument and I think we can agree with my setup I can take a different approach. HOWEVER I think I can still beat Vil to the punch in that case.

@Faster Than Light @Tsunami

 

[Tsunami]

My argument isn't that running with all that gear can't be done. My argument is that you can't run that fast for that range. I'm arguing that a person can't even run that range in 7 seconds

You won't get me to agree that this is the case because it's just not true, I'm agreeing to the post based on the fact that I just don't want to argue semantics.