Faction Training and Ranks

[CJ Solo]

Yeah, it has seemed pretty certain that Jedi General is a thing because staff has decided that the Master rank is 'useless' and from what I can tell wouldn't support the push on a more central focus on PvP like a military looking rank like Jedi General does.

 

[Khivas]

I'm not staff or making any sort of final rules lol just throwing my idea out there, sorry.

 

[Flamjetxx]

I don't want to sound pessimistic or anything about this, but I'm just getting a bad feeling about this. Although starting everyone off on that middle rank can help trick new folks into thinking they are viable, I feel like it doesn't give many of the less story-oriented RPers (you know, the ones that play this like a video game) will becme quickly bored. I can see people making the jump from Knight to Master and going off the grid, thinking they've achieved everything they came for. *conversly, it might promote the story-oriented RPing, which would be great.

Will making the jump from Knight to Master be far more difficult? I even feel like the current requirements for Knight to Master seems like too little if there will essentially only be two ranks anyway? Perhaps these "extended requirements" could have subtle hints towards promoting this story-oriented RPing?

**I've REALLY loved everything that has come out alreqdy for the new timeline, and this is the only one giving me a bad feeling. So, obviously, I reqlly want to believe that I am just overthinking it.
Plus, I am really going to miss all the training, lol. Though I can still start off my charrie as a Padawan rank and pretend to earn Knight rank, as there are plenty of stroylines that can work with a Master-Apprentice relationship. So, I hope that many of us don't forget that although Padawan isn't an official rank, it can still be utikized for these unique stroy purposes.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Going from the Knight level to the Master level is going to be very difficult. You really have to work for it.

As for the concerns regarding story, to be honest I'd say that if your story is based on rank progression then that may not be the best way of going about it to begin with. Storytelling should be about personal growth for the character first and foremost. You don't really need rank to do that, so I personally wouldn't be concerned about storytelling taking a backseat here. Your character's story is and always will be what you make it.

 

[Saul]

Going from the Knight level to the Master level is going to be very difficult. You really have to work for it.

As for the concerns regarding story, to be honest I'd say that if your story is based on rank progression then that may not be the best way of going about it to begin with. Storytelling should be about personal growth for the character first and foremost. You don't really need rank to do that, so I personally wouldn't be concerned about storytelling taking a backseat here. Your character's story is and always will be what you make it.

If I could click the like button any harder I'd break my screen. Honestly, ranks don't mean anything. Darth rank is awesome because you get a fancy new name to reward you for something like at least a years worth of dedication to RP or more, but aside from that, the changes to rank mean that your power isn't derived from rank, and so it doesn't really matter if you're a Padawan, Knight or Master, it's all just a badge of honor. Your story is what matters.

Plus, I am really going to miss all the training, lol. Though I can still start off my charrie as a Padawan rank and pretend to earn Knight rank, as there are plenty of stroylines that can work with a Master-Apprentice relationship. So, I hope that many of us don't forget that although Padawan isn't an official rank, it can still be utikized for these unique stroy purposes.

I still plan to start my Sith off at square one and go through a whole Dark Side Yoda-Luke experience because that's what I enjoy. There's nothing that stops you from doing it. In fact, because you can become a Knight/Sith whenever you feel it's appropriate, you have even more control over just how much training you need to do to get promoted. Because you promote yourself. You literally just go *bam* I'm a Knight and you're a Knight. So you can actually craft your training around doing the Jedi Trials and once you finish them you're a Knight! Not this whole business of x amount of whatevers and y amounts of blahs.

 

[Oreus]

Going from the Knight level to the Master level is going to be very difficult. You really have to work for it.

As for the concerns regarding story, to be honest I'd say that if your story is based on rank progression then that may not be the best way of going about it to begin with. Storytelling should be about personal growth for the character first and foremost. You don't really need rank to do that, so I personally wouldn't be concerned about storytelling taking a backseat here. Your character's story is and always will be what you make it.

I love this and it is part of how I struggled with training this timeline. I didn't like the grindy nature of getting to promoting and also felt like I wasn't part of the story. Everyone being somewhat equal with a few higher ranks as leadership feels right. Focusing on story over power level, skills, and rank will make it more fun and pvp will be less intimidating in my opinion.

 

[CJ Solo]

I think people are getting the idea that those wanting to start at a padawan level to play out training as some want for rank progression over story or some wanting of power, which isn't the case and I think there'ssome biased views by those with PvP flags in their eyes or weren't fortunate enough to land their character with a good storyteller and roleplayer for their own character's training period. There are simply people who value the telling of the story of their character's growth from the beginning and being a character witout power and earning that over skipping all the character work. If anyone is just caring about rank, it's those that just want to jump to Knight, or whatever the faction equivalent is.

Either way, grind factor is still going to be there and more so if it's gog to be "harder" to get to that next level. Instead of grinding to Knight, you have to grind to General or whatever. I've been told in order to progress that you are required to do PvP which is probably going to come down to how many PvP battles you've been in, how many victories you have or percentage of victories or something. There's probably still going to be some drop off, or faction switching, when people get bored of waiting on the PvP requirement or once their character lives through all those fights to level up since there won't be anything else to strive for, kinda like now with people hitting Knight and Master.

That being said, I think it'd be grand if everyone that joined a faction joined and remained active regardless if their rank is Knight or fluffy bunny. :D I saw so many Jedi missions go untouched because people weren't signing up for them.

 

[Raydo]

I would like to chime in and point out that several people who have complained of the grindy and endless progression to Knight are people who have not 1. Asked myself (or any of the current Jedi leadership that I am aware of) what they need to do to become promoted. And 2. Put in an application for promotion.

It isn't some overly daunting task. I think Reland was promoted to Knight after 12 or so threads. I had training threads but I also wrote them in a way where I was developing a character or a relationship. When I wasn't given missions, I made my own up. It isn't that hard.

The fact is, no has been promoted in the last 5ish months because no one has applied for it.

Just remeber, too much salt is bad for your health

 

[Krajin]

I have a question outside the Jedi and Force stuff. What about those in the Border Guard of the Republic and Sith Military? Ground pounders, Starship Pilots and Captains. How will ranks work towards those? Will people be able to in theory command ships or fighter groups?

 

[Lavi]

Wholeheartedly agree with removing training threads. It just never worked and frankly is just NOT fun for both the student and the instructor.

 

[Marf]

Alright, question. Would we be allowed to make up sub-ranks for our Jedi or Sith to flesh out their story and add a bit of cultural flair? The Sith Warriors in my writing off the site use military ranks, and I'd like to have my Sith Andromeda be "Sergeant" or "Captain", just to enhance the lifestyle aesthetic and story, and of course, make it an option to others who wish to do the same with their characters. Would that be OK?

It always felt really wrong to me seeing the Malgus's and Marr's being called "Apprentice", "Master" and "Lord", those titles just sound so fusty and dorky for that archetype of Sith :p

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Individual RPers can but it has to be made clear that it's not part of the faction itself.

 

[Saul]

It isn't some overly daunting task. I think Reland was promoted to Knight after 12 or so threads. I had training threads but I also wrote them in a way where I was developing a character or a relationship. When I wasn't given missions, I made my own up. It isn't that hard.

I'd like to reiterate that the new systems means you promote yourself from padawan to Knight. There is no minimum requirements or application process.

 

[Lamper]

I would like to chime in and point out that several people who have complained of the grindy and endless progression to Knight are people who have not 1. Asked myself (or any of the current Jedi leadership that I am aware of) what they need to do to become promoted. And 2. Put in an application for promotion.
It isn't some overly daunting task. I think Reland was promoted to Knight after 12 or so threads. I had training threads but I also wrote them in a way where I was developing a character or a relationship. When I wasn't given missions, I made my own up. It isn't that hard.

The fact is, no has been promoted in the last 5ish months because no one has applied for it.

Just remeber, too much salt is bad for your health

I'd like to reiterate that the new systems means you promote yourself from padawan to Knight. There is no minimum requirements or application process.

I think Raydo's just addressing a mindset that can carry over into the new system, one where people wait for others to give them something they can make for themselves - and should. The admins have made, and continue to make, an environment where people can promote development and growth for their characters as they so choose. Sometimes that just means letting go of certain finite preconceptions and self-limiting habits. :)

 

[Saul]

I think Raydo's just addressing a mindset that can carry over into the new system, one where people wait for others to give them something they can make for themselves - and should. The admins have made, and continue to make, an environment where people can promote development and growth for their characters as they so choose. Sometimes that just means letting go of certain finite preconceptions and self-limiting habits. :)

I was reiterating for the general community, highlighting the differences between the current timeline as expressed in Raydo's post with the future timeline. Didn't mean to come across as demeaning to Raydo. In fact, I aimed to support his caution against that mindset transferring over by pointing out that the premise for most people's basic apprehension around the old system is done away with entirely.

 

[Lamper]

I was reiterating for the general community, highlighting the differences between the current timeline as expressed in Raydo's post with the future timeline. Didn't mean to come across as demeaning to Raydo. In fact, I aimed to support his caution against that mindset transferring over by pointing out that the premise for most people's basic apprehension around the old system is done away with entirely.

You didn't come across that way, boo. I just wanted to touch on that sentiment too. This is a great place with great people like yourself and I love everything about the new timeline so far. And I do hope it's extreeeeeemely hard to rank up to Master.

 

[Raydo]

In theory, I like everyone starting out Knight. I agree that entry ranks can make it hard to "get into group" but I hope that faction leadership still needs to have some say on what is acceptable and not acceptable for new members in terms of power in newly created characters. It is a common theme in new characters that they, a vast majority of the time, are overpowered.

I worry that with the clear emphasis on PvP, this problem will only become more prominent as players try to "be the best". That could seriously hurt what makes this website awesome, character development and story making. A central theme of Star Wars stories has always been someone raising up from nothing and becoming a legend. When you cut out the beginning of that story, I think you lose some that.

So, in theory, I also don't like it. : p

I was reiterating for the general community, highlighting the differences between the current timeline as expressed in Raydo's post with the future timeline. Didn't mean to come across as demeaning to Raydo. In fact, I aimed to support his caution against that mindset transferring over by pointing out that the premise for most people's basic apprehension around the old system is done away with entirely.

You are good, my man. I wasn't addressing your comments specifically. I just would rather people help out and make suggestions to the FLs than come to these threads and complain about what is wrong when they make no effort to better things.

 

[Saul]

In theory, I like everyone starting out Knight. I agree that entry ranks can make it hard to "get into group" but I hope that faction leadership still needs to have some say on what is acceptable and not acceptable for new members in terms of power in newly created characters. It is a common theme in new characters that they, a vast majority of the time, are overpowered.

I worry that with the clear emphasis on PvP, this problem will only become more prominent as players try to "be the best". That could seriously hurt what makes this website awesome, character development and story making. A central theme of Star Wars stories has always been someone raising up from nothing and becoming a legend. When you cut out the beginning of that story, I think you lose some that.

I also worry about this. It's going to be a lot more difficult to keep in check those people that are brand new to the forum, develop overpowered characters and try to use those overpowered abilities in threads when their grasp on Star Wars is derived from cesspits like The Force Unleashed. I assume that FL's and AFL's will still be able to ask characters tone it down when they make new ones, but from my time watching the CP forum I've seen roughly half the characters made by new people be fair, and the other half be ridiculous - and half the time, those ridiculous characters weren't made with malicious intent but were just the manifestation of the users biggest Star Wars fantasies all wrapped into one because they got too excited.

Also, people tend to appreciate things they have to work harder for more than that which they are handed freely. I worry that allowing anyone to willy nilly get the rank of Knight will mean that people will under-appreciate what that means and actually be less invested in their characters than the new timeline intends for them to be.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I think it's worth pointing out again for people who only just joined this timeline (and by no means am I dismissing any concerns here) that the emphasis on more PvP, risk taking, combat, and what not is a return to form for the site. The lack of PvP, risk, and combat is a new phenomenon. It's not the historical status quo. So we have the better part of a decade's worth of experience in working in more risk-oriented timelines, and I can tell you now that it was better than the risk-aversion that the site has turned towards.

So I would say, while it may be a new experience for many of you, it's not a new experience for the site, so you should rest assured that things will be fine. To be honest, a lot of arguments that are being made like "I think the removal of Padawan will be harmful because PvP etc" are arguments that I'm not really seeing the logic in. Which is totally just an honest difference in perspective, so don't take that as a shot against anyone making that argument, but I don't think you need to be worried about that sort of thing. We're not about to be overrun by jerks who just want to kill everyone's characters or powergame the site.

As for a specific concern Radyo brings up regarding new over-powered characters - people still have to sign up for the faction. FLs still get to review profiles before they accept them into the faction, just as they can now. So that's where FLs get to tone down any powerplaying they might feel is evident in a new character profile.

Also, people tend to appreciate things they have to work harder for more than that which they are handed freely. I worry that allowing anyone to willy nilly get the rank of Knight will mean that people will under-appreciate what that means and actually be less invested in their characters than the new timeline intends for them to be.

In regards to people being less appreciative of their character, the core of training is meant to be the learning experience, building relationships, and creating the beginnings of your story on the site. All of that can and will be accomplished regardless of what rank you start at. Eliminating the Padawan and training requirements doesn't remove peoples' appreciation for their characters or take away the beginnings of their storytelling process. I would argue it does just the opposite: people won't become bored by the tedious nature of training, and we'll have more members on the site because a massive barrier to entry will have been removed.

 

[Marcus]

This concern is a valid one, which is one of the reasons I placed my Knight character as "just being knighted". I would opine that FLs suggest that for most newcomers. Perhaps I am stating an obvious assumption? I mean, someone like Raydo could start out as a mid-high level Jedi (or general or FL or whatever), but then Boli would have to be Noob McKnight.