George Zimmerman found not guilty.

[Emma Lou]

Just out of curiosity, what do you define as "white?"

Caucasian. When I fill out a little form asking my race I cannot pick Native American, African American, or Hispanic so I am white. I am just so sick of hearing "He is a white guy and that's why he got off". He is a minority, he shot a minority, and he was convicted by a jury of a minority.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

I'm mostly more annoyed at how much press this is getting, vs. Snowdens case. There's been relatively little on the easily accessable main media, compared to this case. I think it's tragic someone died, don't misunderstand me, but people die every day, where as Snowden is a bit more unique and over all I think worth more coverage than it's getting. I think as far as reasonable doubt goes, Bac and the others on that train of thought had the right of it, they should've gone for man slaughter, and there were way to many conflicting stories.

 

[Emma Lou]

I'm mostly more annoyed at how much press this is getting, vs. Snowdens case. There's been relatively little on the easily accessable main media, compared to this case. I think it's tragic someone died, don't misunderstand me, but people die every day, where as Snowden is a bit more unique and over all I think worth more coverage than it's getting. I think as far as reasonable doubt goes, Bac and the others on that train of thought had the right of it, they should've gone for man slaughter, and there were way to many conflicting stories.

I think if they would've gone for manslaughter he would've gotten convicted.

 

[TweedPawn]

What do any of you define as "white?"

I suppose that's a valid question considering the hispanic community. My father is from Cuba yet many people do not realize he is Hispanic because he has very european features (before Cuba, his family was from northern Italy). It doesn't seem too much of an issue amongst Cubans, but I have heard of people not considering fair-skinned hispanics to be part of their group.

Never saw it personally amongst my Spanish friends, but it's something I heard from one of those "friend of a friend" sources. Which brings up another aspect of many cultures that have come to America to be a part of our delicious melting pot of democratic fondue: How much of "white" american culture does one absorb before becoming something other than your ethnic group? I grew up eating tamales for christmas and my father driving me crazy by listening to Santana CDS on repeat (with Gloria Estefan thrown in for "variety"). I spoke spanish before english (mom made me stop speaking it because she couldn't understand me) and was babysat by a cuban college student when I was a toddler.

Here's the trip: I love my father. He is 100% MY DAD. But he IS NOT my biological father. He married my mom when I was 2. I have no actual spainish blood in me. But I can make some amazing cuban dishes and I plan on passing down my dad's traditions to my nieces.

So, where does that put me on the cultural scale? I know I'm a typical white american. But I have had a multiracial upbringing that taught me that the boundaries between race can be so easy to blur yet stubborn to erase completely.

 

[Cassel]

I suppose that's a valid question considering the hispanic community. My father is from Cuba yet many people do not realize he is Hispanic because he has very european features (before Cuba, his family was from northern Italy). It doesn't seem too much of an issue amongst Cubans, but I have heard of people not considering fair-skinned hispanics to be part of their group.

Never saw it personally amongst my Spanish friends, but it's something I heard from one of those "friend of a friend" sources. Which brings up another aspect of many cultures that have come to America to be a part of our delicious melting pot of democratic fondue: How much of "white" american culture does one absorb before becoming something other than your ethnic group? I grew up eating tamales for christmas and my father driving me crazy by listening to Santana CDS on repeat (with Gloria Estefan thrown in for "variety"). I spoke spanish before english (mom made me stop speaking it because she couldn't understand me) and was babysat by a cuban college student when I was a toddler.

Here's the trip: I love my father. He is 100% MY DAD. But he IS NOT my biological father. He married my mom when I was 2. I have no actual spainish blood in me. But I can make some amazing cuban dishes and I plan on passing down my dad's traditions to my nieces.

So, where does that put me on the cultural scale? I know I'm a typical white american. But I have had a multiracial upbringing that taught me that the boundaries between race can be so easy to blur yet stubborn to erase completely.

^That. A million times, that.

Race doesn't matter, nor has it ever. We are all each other's brothers and sisters, and should treat each other as such. Why can't we be friends?

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Why can't we be friends?

Probably has to do with that whole evolutionary trait thing, we diiiid kill off every other similar group of apes to Homo Sapien after all. Some part of us (us being the human collective) is just hardwired to conflict, it's only been within the last few thousand years that we've just barely started to see ideals akin to Buddhism, or Jesus's love they neighbor, and things of that nature as good qualities to develop and even now such things get flaunted about as "new age mumbo jumbo" and "dirty hippie talk" or in some cases as "communism" or "socialism" when it's not even applicable to government, just day to day living. We spent hundreds of thousands of years evolving in harsh environments full of predators and disease and things we only recently have come to understand. I think we're doing well, over all considering everything we're fighting against in our own nature and evolutionary history.

 

[BLADE]

Caucasian. When I fill out a little form asking my race I cannot pick Native American, African American, or Hispanic so I am white. I am just so sick of hearing "He is a white guy and that's why he got off". He is a minority, he shot a minority, and he was convicted by a jury of a minority.

Hola Gringa! I would like to inform you muy pronto that there are in fact blanco hispanics. Que chingada! Si, pero is true.

Also, because it's never about race, I am sure that if a black man had shot an unarmed white teenager after a scuffle in Florida, he too would have been acquitted.

*Clueless white people in this thread*

But on to the technicalities. It's worth noting that under Stand Your Ground (SYG), the burden of proof for self-defense (which is what the case was adjudicated on the basis of) shifts the burden of proof for sufficiency of defense from the defendant to the plaintiff (the state.) In essence, whereas in self-defense cases, the burden is to prove that self-defense was a reasonable response to a given scenario, under SYG, the state has to prove that there was force was disproportionate and unreasonable. Manslaughter itself would have been a reach for Zimmerman under these auspices because the evidence was so equivocal.

With all of that being said about the majesty of the law (my bailiwick, don't you know?), it's worth noting that a lot of this falls down to the jury and that again, I have no doubt that for a lot of the country this came down to the fact that a black teenager's life was not worth the ego or "honor" or some asshole white dude (with an espicy Latino name, natch.)

I grew up in a black neighborhood. My oldest childhood friend is black. I still remember his parents teaching him how to walk on eggshells around police and authority figures, because existing while black in this country is that much of an existential threat. I remember blithely walking into places where he could never be, or where he might get an eyeful or be told to get out, or where he might be stalked. Under a monstrosity of a "law" like this, his future children --my godchildren in all likelihood-- are not only at the mercy of asshole police, asshole shopkeepers, asshole authority figures, asshole rich people, but asshole anyone. Anyone, that is, with a chip on their shoulder, the ability to get a weapon, and just the right lack of melanin in their skin.

@Castiel: Nothing is preventing you from starting a thread about Edward Snowden. Have the decency to respect the fact that someone died (without mealy mouthed "well it's a shame" digressions) and do at least that much.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

@Castiel: Nothing is preventing you from starting a thread about Edward Snowden. Have the decency to respect the fact that someone died (without mealy mouthed "well it's a shame" digressions) and do at least that much.

It was just an aside, mainly. I do respect the fact that someone died, and just because you took it as "mealy mouthed" doesn't mean you're correct in that fact. I have great respect for the value of life, and I was simply commenting on my disgust that someones death is being used to divert attention away from important matters. A persons death shouldn't be used as a smokescreen, it's disrespectful and that's exactly what this case has become, a smokescreen.

 

[BLADE]

Point remains. Utterly nothing other than your need to preen here about Edward Snowden (Seriously, he hasn't gotten enough media attention according to you? Are you living in a cave somewhere waist deep in your own filth and regrets?) necessitates mentioning this case versus that one. If you want to start a media criticism thread, that's fine. I also have issues with how this case was covered. If you want to start a thread about Edward Snowden, then by all means, do so. I'll even spot you the title ("White Nerd With Unfortunate Penchant for Hipster Glasses & Open-Collared Dress Shirts Reveals USG to be Evil and/or Orwellian Hellscape; No One Surprised") but keep things separate, kthx.

 

[Cassel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Point remains. Utterly nothing other than your need to preen here about Edward Snowden (Seriously, he hasn't gotten enough media attention according to you? Are you living in a cave somewhere waist deep in your own filth and regrets?) necessitates mentioning this case versus that one. If you want to start a media criticism thread, that's fine. I also have issues with how this case was covered. If you want to start a thread about Edward Snowden, then by all means, do so. I'll even spot you the title ("White Nerd With Unfortunate Penchant for Hipster Glasses & Open-Collared Dress Shirts Reveal USG to be Evil and/or Douchey; No One Surprised") but keep things separate, kthx.

Go drink some coffee and come back when you're ready to discuss things as though you have some decency please. This response is completely uncalled for.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Caucasian. When I fill out a little form asking my race I cannot pick Native American, African American, or Hispanic so I am white. I am just so sick of hearing "He is a white guy and that's why he got off". He is a minority, he shot a minority, and he was convicted by a jury of a minority.

He's both, actually. His mother is hispanic, his father is white. Adding to the fact that he's both white and hispanic, his name is George Zimmerman.

 

[BLADE]

Hispanic is also not a race. Even by USG standards, it's more ethnicity than something else.

@Sheo: Okay, now in the next shot, I want you to take a dramatic swan dive, as the evil snarky Jewish guy has just made some light jokes at your expense. Maybe we'll have some "Lacrimosa" in the background. For effect. Ooh, or maybe we can have a crane shot of you in a dingy shower (again, waist-deep in your own filth and regrets) rocking yourself back and forth in the aftereffect of me violating you.

Isn't it weird that you can so blithely dismiss some black kid dying --because y'know, black kids die all the time-- and yet one joke aimed at you, and another about how Edward Snowden seriously does rock an open-collared dress shirt all the time (it's like he's about to give me a TED talk on how ORWELL WAS RIGHT AND IT HAS HIS SLED ALL ALONG) somehow gets you to demand that I drink coffee (I don't partake, but thanks for the rec!) all huffily and such?

As far as substantively engaging you, like I said. I'm happy to do so in an Ed Snowden thread or even in an aside that isn't just adversarial oppression Olympics mush. If you have something intelligent to add, I'll be happy to talk. If not, I'll do as I always do: point and mock.

If that's an invite, I'd also like to order the prime rib, and add a plus-one.

 

[Sisk_Renelo]

Hispanic is also not a race. Even by USG standards, it's more ethnicity than something else.

This is true. I worked for the census in '10, and Hispanic is considered an ethnicity of Caucasian. I worked in a little town in west Texas, and you have no idea how pissed some of the people there got when I told them that Hispanic isn't considered a race, and they needed to put Caucasian down, and that they could place Hispanic into the ethnicity box.

 

[Sovereign]

Hola Gringa! I would like to inform you muy pronto that there are in fact blanco hispanics. Que chingada! Si, pero is true.

Also, because it's never about race, I am sure that if a black man had shot an unarmed white teenager after a scuffle in Florida, he too would have been acquitted.

*Clueless white people in this thread*

But on to the technicalities. It's worth noting that under Stand Your Ground (SYG), the burden of proof for self-defense (which is what the case was adjudicated on the basis of) shifts the burden of proof for sufficiency of defense from the defendant to the plaintiff (the state.) In essence, whereas in self-defense cases, the burden is to prove that self-defense was a reasonable response to a given scenario, under SYG, the state has to prove that there was force was disproportionate and unreasonable. Manslaughter itself would have been a reach for Zimmerman under these auspices because the evidence was so equivocal.

With all of that being said about the majesty of the law (my bailiwick, don't you know?), it's worth noting that a lot of this falls down to the jury and that again, I have no doubt that for a lot of the country this came down to the fact that a black teenager's life was not worth the ego or "honor" or some asshole white dude (with an espicy Latino name, natch.)

I grew up in a black neighborhood. My oldest childhood friend is black. I still remember his parents teaching him how to walk on eggshells around police and authority figures, because existing while black in this country is that much of an existential threat. I remember blithely walking into places where he could never be, or where he might get an eyeful or be told to get out, or where he might be stalked. Under a monstrosity of a "law" like this, his future children --my godchildren in all likelihood-- are not only at the mercy of asshole police, asshole shopkeepers, asshole authority figures, asshole rich people, but asshole anyone. Anyone, that is, with a chip on their shoulder, the ability to get a weapon, and just the right lack of melanin in their skin.

@Castiel: Nothing is preventing you from starting a thread about Edward Snowden. Have the decency to respect the fact that someone died (without mealy mouthed "well it's a shame" digressions) and do at least that much.

I missed you, bae

 

[Colt556]

This case exemplifies what is wrong with this country. Not the outcome. Not the trial. Not the crime itself. But the fact that any of you know about it. The fact that there's a thread about it. Just how famous this is, that is what shows how messed up our society is. Every day hundreds of thousands of people suffer criminal acts against them. Every day millions die for some reason or another. Yet we latch onto this one, this crime no worse than any other. We cling to it. We watch it like hawks. We ENJOY it. The American people ENJOY this. The news is the modern day gladiatorial ring. We watch it because we're sick and we get off on seeing just how messed up other people are. Why should anyone care? The law handled it. Why tune in and give the news channels tons of ratings? Why follow every waking moment of it? Why do you care? Do you have nothing better to do with your life?

That's why I absolutely hate this sort of thing. Yes, it's sad that a young man lost his life. But millions of people die every day, I don't see the entire public talking about them every waking moment. This case isn't special. It's not unique. And it makes me sick that people have to cling to it because it's a source of entertainment.

Here's a suggestion, post a thread for every single ****ing court case every single day. Why should they be ignored? Seriously, stop leeching off these stories.

 

[Green Ranger]

 

[Colt556]

Thank you. I needed that.

 

[BLADE]

This case exemplifies what is wrong with this country.

I would like to sign up to your newsletter, but only if I get the Hayachi 1000 Power Slicer.

Hayachi 1000: For When You Need to Cut to the Chase

Not the outcome. Not the trial. Not the crime itself. But the fact that any of you know about it.

Fun Fact: Were it not for the tireless efforts of the local community, this never would have been brought to trial. Because in this country there's still a presumption of innocence --we'll call it the pure as the driven snow-skin phenomenon-- when it comes to white-on-black crime. But then that would cut against your argument and that's totally not fair. Stupid reality being real and fact-y and empirical and stuff. Laaame.

The fact that there's a thread about it. Just how famous this is, that is what shows how messed up our society is. Every day hundreds of thousands of people suffer criminal acts against them.

But they totally wouldn't if people would stop caring about it. THANKS OBAMA!

Every day millions die for some reason or another. Yet we latch onto this one, this crime no worse than any other.

I too believe we should chop off hands for all crimes. And then we could sell the shrunken appendages as handy tchotkes. Oh but I crack myself up.

We cling to it. We watch it like hawks.

You may want to go back to prose school. See, when someone watches something like a hawk that implies assiduous duty. Stern watchfulness. All qualities that we enjoy (and also that the NSA can haz, THANKS OBAMA!) See, if you wanted to call us all jive turkeys or some sort of vulture (but not the Spidey villain, k!) then that would totes work.

I guess what I'm saying is that your writing sucks and you should feel bad.

We ENJOY it. The American people ENJOY this.

I would have enjoyed it more if Trayvon had secretly been from the planet Krypton. Also if it was in IMAX™.

The news is the modern day gladiatorial ring. We watch it because we're sick and we get off on seeing just how messed up other people are. Why should anyone care? The law handled it.

Except it didn't and that's the whole point.

Why tune in and give the news channels tons of ratings?

Man the shittiness of this post is now veering into hanging clauses and thesis statements adopted halfway into a self-same post.

Allow me to perhaps point out that NO ONE HERE HAS LINKED TO ANY OF THE MORBID AND MACABRE NEWS CHANNELS WHICH INCIDENTALLY ARE WATCHED BY MAYBE A FRACTION OF A PERCENT OF PEOPLE.

Why follow every waking moment of it? Why do you care? Do you have nothing better to do with your life?

Says the guy ranting on this on a glorified fanfiction website. Ooh, do you have a girlfriend in Canada? Is she a model? Did she shoot Trayvon Martin too but all sexily and shit?

That's why I absolutely hate this sort of thing. Yes, it's sad that a young man lost his life. But millions of people die every day,

I've mentioned why Oppression Olympics is bullshit, but by all means... proceed.

I don't see the entire public talking about them every waking moment. This case isn't special. It's not unique. And it makes me sick that people have to cling to it because it's a source of entertainment.

Except is is pretty unique and also says a lot about race relations in this country.

Here's a suggestion, post a thread for every single ****ing court case every single day. Why should they be ignored? Seriously, stop leeching off these stories.

So... do I get my slicer now?

@Sin: Teehee. Oh you.

 

[Emma Lou]

Hola Gringa! I would like to inform you muy pronto that there are in fact blanco hispanics. Que chingada! Si, pero is true.

Also, because it's never about race, I am sure that if a black man had shot an unarmed white teenager after a scuffle in Florida, he too would have been acquitted.

*Clueless white people in this thread*

I am more than aware that there are white Hispanics, no need to be an asshole. I also never said it wasn't about race. I said I am sick of people saying he got off because he is white (Caucasian) when he is Hispanic. You should try not being an asshole all the time. You are no better or smarter than anyone else here so calling people clueless is just rude.