[Interest Check] Imperial Outcasts

[RumblingDom 1]

I'm just glad this is beginning to diffuse. I just think these different factions will come together sooner or later anyways as the movement of reform for the Imperium so there's no need to argue about it, we'll probably be one big happy family soon enough anyways.

 

[Interfector]

Silver, calm down. My comment about the Coterie and the Sith, was, and I'll say it again, a tongue-in-cheek remark, a jest, a joke, a cheeky remark, some banter. I did read through your post, relax. You don't need to explain or defend yourself, I conceded that I was under the assumption about the Coterie being controlled exclusively by Sith was incorrect when Bee mentioned otherwise. It was never a malicious attack, apologies if that's how you interpreted it.

 

[TheSilentWind]

Silver, calm down. My comment about the Coterie and the Sith, was, and I'll say it again, a tongue-in-cheek remark, a jest, a joke, a cheeky remark, some banter. I did read through your post, relax. You don't need to explain or defend yourself, I conceded that I was under the assumption about the Coterie being controlled exclusively by Sith was incorrect when Bee mentioned otherwise. It was never a malicious attack, apologies if that's how you interpreted it.

I am pretty calm and I am just addressing the posts you stated. I do have a legitimate reason since to post since those posts were addressed at myself and other members and one of those points you mentioned were addressed at myself. Nothing wrong with what I am doing. Anyway, you really don't have to apologize. Everyone here seems to be calm.

 

[Aleksandr]

When I posted here I did not expect it to turn into a big argument.

But anyway, I had a different idea for such an organization than the Imperial Outcasts. When I brought up the Egyptian Free Officers Movement, I was thinking strictly on the lines of that organization. Here are the main points of the potential group I have in mind:

• They are mainly lower members of the IAF, junior officers and enlisted personnel.
• They are not entirely against all members of the Sith Order (as someone pointed out, there are Sith who also care about the Empire). They just want to remove Andraste and some of the other higher ranking ones.
  
• They are not an openly traitorous insurgent group. This "Free Officers Movement" would (initially) be more of a shadowy and secretive conspiracy, kind of like the Coterie was, as they recruit and build up their support. However, when the time comes, they will be willing to reveal themselves. Its members are loyal Imperials by day, and traitors by night, so to speak.
• They will intend to execute a military coup against Andraste and her higher-ranking supporters in the hierarchy. They are willing to work with the Sith Order to find a Sith that cares about the Imperium and is reliable, and thus can take the throne. This coup would need to be as quick and bloodless as possible in order to not weaken the Imperium further, so that the war against the Rebellion may continue.
  
• They still hate the Rebels and Jedi and would be unwilling to cooperate with the Imperial Knights, as they are working with them. Their whole plan is to execute a coup as quickly and bloodlessly as possible so this internal conflict can be cleared up and they can go back to fighting the Rebellion. Keep in mind that the Rebellion wants to destroy the whole Empire, not just Andraste, so working with them would not be a good thing. Plus all members of the IAF are ideologically indoctrinated, right? Most will probably view the Rebels as enemies anyway.
• They will view the Coterie as being a bunch of politicians and dark siders who do not have much military experience, and cannot be trusted to do what is good for the Empire. Especially if members of the Coterie are working with the Rebels, which is still treason in the view of the conspirators.

​

So that's just what I had in mind, Interfector, let me know what you think.

 

[Dmitri]

I feel rather than having separate groups aiming for the same thing they'd do better as part of the Rebellion. Would give them access to resources that would allow them to actually make a difference in the war.

 

[Calixis]

As I said to @Interfector in the PM, this just sounds like what the True Throne element of the Rebellion are; non-Force sensitive (ex?) Imperials, most of whom having been enlisted with the IAF, who decided that they were batting for the wrong side. The issues we've had however is somewhat similar to the Imperial Knights in that there are very few Rebel characters who no longer fight for the Imperium. They occasionally crop up, but they come in such drips and drabs at random times that there are rarely enough for active True Throne specific plots and groups to start forming. With that being said, there's some rather large-scale plots brewing behind the scenes for the Imperial Knights and non-FS Rebel Imperials (that's always so awkward to say) that will hopefully generate more interest and activity for the latter, rather than being exclusive to the former.

My recommendation is simply to enlist with the Rebellion. Non-Force sensitive characters are already lacking, and the Rebellion is arguably the worst for it. A major part of what makes the Rebellion as a faction is its diversity in who/what makes up its member base. If we have a dozen 'indie factions' with 2-3 active PCs (that inevitably die when the novelty wears off) it's just sapping the Rebel faction of potential activity and the members of those small indie factions of a potentially larger pool of people to interact with.

The distinction is also worth noting.

Loyalists = Content with the status quo/just don't care as Andraste remaining Empress.
Coterie = Shadowy group, led by Sith, who just want to get rid of Andraste but otherwise are happy to see the Sith in power. They don't like who's in charge, but that's about it.
True Throne = Believe in an Empire without the Sith at all, closer to that of the Fel Empire. Also includes the Imperial Knights.

 

[RumblingDom 1]

I think that's the main concern and why they'd try to jump ship rather than worm their way about (not saying intrigue is a bad idea just the situation at hand). While they could potentially get through the ranks the Imperial Army is quite massive, and the more people you have the more likely the secret is to be found out. Getting in bed with the enemy seems the most viable option of success and survival. It would be cool for these lower officers and soldiers to merely bide their time and wait for a culmination but since the recent battle of Maan, it might look to be a better idea to get with the rebellion. They are indeed nationalists as they have become to be described but the scales are starting to shake right now, it's a good opportune moment to just try and make the other side weigh down so it might aide in tipping the balance. Picking up the pieces however would indeed be much more difficult but I'm sure together the Imperials simply against the upper government and the empress could manage atleast something. I don't know that's just my two cents on what's going on.

 

[Interfector]

When I posted here I did not expect it to turn into a big argument.

But anyway, I had a different idea for such an organization than the Imperial Outcasts. When I brought up the Egyptian Free Officers Movement, I was thinking strictly on the lines of that organization. Here are the main points of the potential group I have in mind:

• They are mainly lower members of the IAF, junior officers and enlisted personnel.
• They are not entirely against all members of the Sith Order (as someone pointed out, there are Sith who also care about the Empire). They just want to remove Andraste and some of the other higher ranking ones.
  
• They are not an openly traitorous insurgent group. This "Free Officers Movement" would (initially) be more of a shadowy and secretive conspiracy, kind of like the Coterie was, as they recruit and build up their support. However, when the time comes, they will be willing to reveal themselves. Its members are loyal Imperials by day, and traitors by night, so to speak.
• They will intend to execute a military coup against Andraste and her higher-ranking supporters in the hierarchy. They are willing to work with the Sith Order to find a Sith that cares about the Imperium and is reliable, and thus can take the throne. This coup would need to be as quick and bloodless as possible in order to not weaken the Imperium further, so that the war against the Rebellion may continue.
  
• They still hate the Rebels and Jedi and would be unwilling to cooperate with the Imperial Knights, as they are working with them. Their whole plan is to execute a coup as quickly and bloodlessly as possible so this internal conflict can be cleared up and they can go back to fighting the Rebellion. Keep in mind that the Rebellion wants to destroy the whole Empire, not just Andraste, so working with them would not be a good thing. Plus all members of the IAF are ideologically indoctrinated, right? Most will probably view the Rebels as enemies anyway.
• They will view the Coterie as being a bunch of politicians and dark siders who do not have much military experience, and cannot be trusted to do what is good for the Empire. Especially if members of the Coterie are working with the Rebels, which is still treason in the view of the conspirators.

​

So that's just what I had in mind, Interfector, let me know what you think.

Somewhere a little more "Grey" than all the ideologies and concepts that have been put on the table, lets hammer it out together.

• All members are IAF-related, no exceptions.
• The "Outcasts" As the concept is known now, Ideologically probably fit in somewhere between the True Throne and Coterie. They want Andraste gone like everybody else, and the Sith cannot continue to have exclusive domain over the Upper Echelons of Government (See Dark Council, Dark Lord, Sith-ruled Government) Not necessarily gone mind you, just no more Sith Order monopoly on control.
• Not openly treasonous initially, Story will probably lead into that though, should the possibility for a coup never come or the Imperium's situation becomes so intolerable that they've got virtually no other choice.
  
• Military Coup or Rebellion against Andraste and her loyalists, reform the upper echelons of government to be more inclusive. The Imperium's Throne belongs to someone who is proven Imperial First (Nationalist Pride) and anything else second.
  
• Tearing down the Imperium and replacing it with a New Republic is a no-no and anybody who suggests otherwise is a traitor or insurgent, the Conspirator's feelings about co-operation with the Rebellion, Mandalorians or Jedi etc. will vary, and might change over time. I don't want to dictate how character's should feel about topics like that coming into this because it'd stymie Rp.
• Organizations like the Coterie and Knights would be treated with suspicion and distrust initially, yes.
  
  Those are some thoughts on the nitty gritty details of the faction's concept platform that should help distinguish themselves a little, hope I've articulated well, thoughts?

 

[Aleksandr]

I agree with pretty much all of the points you listed, but on second thought it seems there are already enough splinter factions within the Imperium (at least right now). Maybe if the Coterie becomes less active or dissolves then we could see if any other IAF members would be interested in launching a group like this.

 

[Bee]

I don't say this to be rude, but it seems like you just want to lead something, rather than join any of the existing factions that are fundamentally the same as what you're trying to start.

 

[Loco]

I'm with Bee on this one. The real question is; what makes the "outcast" so significantly different from the Coterie, the IK, or Imperial elements of the Rebellion that they require their own indie faction in order to function? Second is whether or not you can maintain enough membership and momentum to have any meaningful impact independent of any cooperation with the existing anti-sith/imperial/Andraste factions? Because if you're going to rely on the pre-established factions that all have the same purpose as yours, then why not just join them and avoid all the totally unnecessary hassle of building and maintaining an indie faction?

 

[Sreeya]

How are you going to get the NPCs for this first of all? I hope you're not expecting us to stamp out x amount of IAF soldiers that just so happen to despise Andraste?

, the Empress who engages in genocide and ethnic cleansing is Sith

Also, Idk what you're talking about with Andraste doing 'ethnic genocide'. No, she's not Hitler. Coruscant and the people she killed on Holovid are the only examples of mass killing. Two total incidents of 'genocide' in the 4 years I've played this character. That's tbh hilariously minuscule compared to the last Emperor Exodeus who DID cull planets for shits and giggles. If you're gonna make a faction based entirely on my character and the Sith, please get your facts right. Coterie is legitimate as it was founded by someone that literally saw Andraste fall into despair and go batshit, and he rallied people behind him. This includes people from the other side who Andraste DID launch attacks against, because she's representing the bad guys.

The Imperium as it stands from where I'm looking, is waging a covert Civil War.

No, that was something our side handwaved because literally nothing was happening in the timeline. ICly, the Imperium has done ridiculously well under Andraste. Look at the territory expansions from where we started at the beginning of the timeline to where we are now. If you're seriously considering starting this, I suggest you shack up with the valid groups out there instead of making up reasons for why IAF would hate the Sith. There may have been incidents, but I think people largely fail to see just how successful the Imperium has been overall pre to post timeskip.

 

[The Kyzer]

Also, Idk what you're talking about with Andraste doing 'ethnic genocide'. No, she's not Hitler. Coruscant and the people she killed on Holovid are the only examples of mass killing.

I think he/she's referring to the Mandalorian Genocide, Sewage. It was blamed on Andraste.

There's your ethnic cleansing.

 

[Sreeya]

I think he/she's referring to the Mandalorian Genocide, Sewage. It was blamed on Andraste.

There's your ethnic cleansing.

Mandos imploded upon themselves.

 

[The Kyzer]

Mandos imploded upon themselves.

I see that your propaganda division is still running strong. :D

 

[TweedPawn]

To be fair, oocly, the Mandos were a mess. Regretfully, the ooc drama leeched out icly which caused a number of poor choices to doom them.

 

[Sreeya]

To be fair, oocly, the Mandos were a mess. Regretfully, the ooc drama leeched out icly which caused a number of poor choices to doom them.

A-fucking-men.

 

[Calixis]

Coruscant and the people she killed on Holovid are the only examples of mass killing. Two total incidents of 'genocide' in the 4 years I've played this character

I can't imagine why people would dislike her when you put it that way.

 

[Sreeya]

I can't imagine why people would hate her when you put it that way.

Compared to Exodeus posting every other week about invading for fun and wiping out species? Yeah, she's a kitten next to that.

 

[Loco]

Mandos imploded upon themselves.

To be fair, oocly, the Mandos were a mess. Regretfully, the ooc drama leeched out icly which caused a number of poor choices to doom them

Victim shaming. Disgusting. Smdh.