Lightsaber Forms

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Cyril Khan

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The Advanced Forms (definately not a Padawan form---I am estimating it due to the difficulty to learn);
Juyo
Makashi
Sokan
Jar-kai
Shien
Djem-so

Intermediate Forms: (Can be a starting/Padwan Form);
Soresu

Basic Forms;
Ataru
Niman

YOU MUST KNOW THIS TO MASTER ANY PREVIOUS FORM!!!
Shii-cho (it is the basis of all forms... without it you would train the others without basics)

Here is a little more info on each

The seven forms of lightsaber combat
Each Jedi chooses the style of lightsaber combat that best suits him or her. For example, Master Yoda uses the Ataru form to compensate for his lack of reach and height, as well as to take advantage of his nearly limitless amount of Force power; Mace Windu uses Vaapad to tap into his anger and employ it constructively (without giving himself over to the dark side); Count Dooku's practice of the Makashi form fits his intention to frequently engage in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat as well as his emphasis on class, elegance and precision. The Jedi Exile was an expert in many of these forms but never relied on just one. In the game, the Masters remark that he masters their forms amazingly quickly, as if he had studied them for years.


Form I: Shii-Cho
Younglings, the Jedi initiate rank, first learn Form I before they begin a Padawan apprenticeship with a Jedi Master. Younglings are taught Shii-Cho first because of its simplicity and versatility. In Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, the Younglings that can be seen being taught by Yoda to deflect light blaster bolts are in the beginning stages of Form I. It is probably based on basic fighting techniques from Kendo.

Sometimes called the ideal form, Form I used horizontal side-swipes and parries made with the blade of the lightsaber held upright to push the point of an enemy's blade away during a side-to-side attack. If the attack is a downward slash aimed at the head, Form I simply reversed the motion, with a horizontally-held lightsaber being moved up and down to deflect a blow. All the basic ideals of attack, parry, target zones, and practice drills were created with the Form I style.

Form I, like the other forms of lightsaber combat, includes the following basic techniques and concepts:

Attack, a set of attacks aimed at different body zones
Parry, a set of blocks to thwart any attack in the specified body zones
Body target zones (1, head; 2, left arm; 3, right arm; 4, back; 5, left leg; 6, right leg)
Training drills called velocities
There was only one known master of Form I in the Star Wars Universe: Kit Fisto. Though Kit Fisto was a master of Shii-Cho, he could not defeat Darth Sidious with it in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Based on KOTOR 2 and the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, the Shii-Cho form is good versus many enemies wielding conventional blaster weaponry. Its simplicity is its strength, making it a very good style to use if all else fails.

Known practitioners: Kit Fisto, Jedi Younglings


Form II: Makashi
After Form I's proliferation as a saber combat technique, Form II came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It is described as being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out. The form relies on parries, thrusts, and small, precise cuts—as opposed to the blocking and slashing of the other forms. The blade manipulation required for this form is very refined and requires much focus, but the results are extremely potent. However, as ranged weapons such as blasters come into play, or more than one opponent is present, the advantages of this form become obsolete.

Form II emphasized fluid motion and anticipation of a weapon being swung at its target, allowing the Jedi to attack and defend with minimal effort. Although many Jedi historians considered Form II to be the ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, it was dropped in favor of Form III combat when blaster weapons became prevalent in the galaxy.


Darth Tyranus faces Jedi Master Yoda.In the time near the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order seldom practices this technique. There is little lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat involved in a Jedi's life, so Jedi Masters have found it impractical.

Darth Tyranus (also known as Count Dooku), from Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, has mastered Form II to the highest degree, fighting with the precision built into the ancient technique. When he wields this form, it devastates the Jedi; the system of Jedi training at the time of confrontation between Darth Tyranus and other Jedi does not prepare the Jedi for the precise movements of a form bred for lightsaber dueling. Former Separatist general Sev'rance Tann was also a practitioner of Form II. It is also possible that General Grievous was also a practitioner of this form since he was trained by Count Dooku, although Mace Windu said to Obi-Wan Kenobi that Grievous was a practitioner of all lightsaber combat forms in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith due to his adaptive combat capabilities.

In the Star Wars Expanded Universe, Count Dooku mentioned that Master Tholme kept up his dueling skills better than most of the Order who switched to deflect blaster bolts, making Tholme another possible candidate of Makashi.

This style is based on the Spanish style of fencing, "La Verdadera Destreza," which is based on classical philosophy and mathematics including the works of Aristotle, Euclid, and Pythagoras. Makashi users are elegant, precise, calm, and confident to the point of arrogance. Form II users have extreme faith in their chances for victory, and often look so relaxed while fighting that it appears that they are dancing.

Known practitioners: Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, Exar Kun, Sev'Rance Tann*, Asajj Ventress*, Komari Vosa*, Darth Sion.

* Their preferred form is unknown, but Count Dooku's training most likely drew them towards Makashi.


Form III: Soresu


Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was acknowledged by Mace Windu as "the Soresu master"Form III, the most defensive of all of the forms, was developed to counteract the advancing blaster technology throughout the galaxy. Most opponents that the Jedi faced during the prequel era carried blasters. Soresu utilizes motions occurring very close to the body to achieve near-total protection, efficiently expending as little energy as possible to execute these moves. This technique exposes as few target zones on the body as possible, making a well-trained practitioner nearly invincible. It borrows movements from Kendo, Wushu and Fencing, making it a very beautiful and graceful form. After Darth Maul's defeat on Naboo, Obi-Wan Kenobi decided to perfect his practice of Soresu since Qui-Gon Jinn, Kenobi's mentor and Form IV Ataru master, fell against Darth Maul. By the time of Revenge of The Sith, Obi-Wan Kenobi is acknowledged as The Master of Soresu, granted by Mace Windu in the novelization.

Unlike Form II combat, which was developed to work against another lightsaber, Form III was most effective in anticipating and deflecting blaster fire. It stressed quick reflexes and fast positional transition, in order to overcome the rapidity with which a blaster could be fired. It was essentially a defensive technique, emphasizing the non-aggressive Jedi philosophy while reducing the exposed areas of their bodies. In the wake of the death of Qui-Gon Jinn at the hands of Darth Maul, many Jedi turned away from the Form IV style of open, acrobatic fighting and took up Form III in order to minimize the risk of injury or death at the hands of an opportunistic opponent.

Though initially developed to deflect blaster fire, Soresu, if perfectly mastered, could act as a defense to any type of attack, including that of a lightsaber. Obi-Wan's performance of Soresu in Episode III is the prime example of the form.

Practitioners of Soresu comfortably remain on the defensive until their opponents make a mistake; only then do they strike offensively. It focuses heavily on counterattack and defensive strikes - there are no preemptive strikes in the form. Soresu can best be described as a passive form and one to be used by Masters who are extremely patient and passive. Soresu users do not wish to fight, or harm. Even during a fight they prefer to remain on the defensive, and they will strike only when absolutely necessary, or if their opponent drops his guard during battle. Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee are also proficient in this form.

Known practitioners: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Barriss Offee, Luminara Unduli


Form IV: Ataru (Ataro)
The master practitioners of Form IV make extensive use of acrobatic maneuvers often thought physically impossible without the aid of the Force. It is quite similar to the martial art of wushu. It is very acrobatic and even more so with the use of the Force, and very articulate when slowed down. The majority of kung fu sword techniques are displayed through this form of Ataru, and may have been incorporated into this style by the earlier practitioners. The given name is spelled Ataru in the Knights of the Old Republic II video game but is spelled Ataro in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

This was one of the more recent lightsaber combat techniques, developed by the Jedi Knights during the last centuries of the Old Republic, around the time of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. It emphasized acrobatic strength and power in wielding the blade, attributes which were frowned upon by many traditional Jedi Knights and Masters. It found a niche among the eager padawan learners of the time, who believed that the Jedi needed to become more involved in rooting out crime and evil and eradicating it. This Form was practiced by Qui-Gon Jinn, although his death at the hands of Darth Maul exposed the weakness of Form IV in defending a Jedi's body. Yoda, however, practiced Form IV with such speed that, when coupled with his small size, left every point on an opponent's body open to attack.

Yoda was acknowledged as the greatest master of Ataru. He used it in almost all of his battles, and the style made him a virtually unstoppable whirlwind of destruction despite his small size and advanced age. Qui-Gon Jinn was also a master of this form. Kenobi was also very advanced in Ataru, but temporarily abandoned it in favor of Soresu because he felt that his master's death demonstrated a fatal flaw in Ataru's defensive capabilities. Nevertheless, Obi-Wan applied Ataru acrobatics to face Dooku and Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

More correctly, Obi-Wan used Form VIII, also known as Sokan. Like Ataru, Sokan utilized acrobatic traits. They are used, however, to attack an opponents' vital body areas, whereas Ataru is more focused on engaging the opponent in general.

Aayla Secura is also a master of this form, according to Jan Duursema, who co-created the Twi'lek Jedi; Quinlan Vos had taught Aayla Form IV. Darth Sidious used a Sith variant of this form, which included stabs and wide swings. Darth Maul's fighting style was largely Form VII, but also used acrobatics associated with Ataru to make himself an even more devastating warrior.

In dire situations, Form IV practitioners use the Force to aid in their acrobatics. Spinning, jumping and running very high and very fast, masters of Form IV are sometimes only seen as a blur. In order to achieve the acrobatic prowess, amazing reflexes and physical punch of this form, a Jedi Master would focus on the Force, letting it flow deeply throughout his entire physical being, even allowing him to overcome the limitations of old age, or poor conditioning. Due to its aggressive nature, it is an effective form to use against single enemies; however, it leaves the user open to attacks from multiple opponents; therefore, it is wise to use Ataru in a duel, but not in open warfare. Emotional control is key, as is letting one's emotions fly free. This is not a contradiction, as displayed by Yoda's firm control despite his screams and grunts.

In the Star Wars Expanded Universe, Jedi Master Tsui Choi was another Jedi as small in size as Yoda, but demonstrated similar Force acrobatics in lightsaber fighting, making her a possible practitioner of Ataru. Master Choi was one of the Jedi who survived the initial stage of the Jedi Purge along with Bultar Swan.

Being similar in height to Yoda, Yaddle and Even Piell may have been Ataru practitioners as well.

Asajj Ventress may have been an Ataru practitioner based on her performance in the arena on Rattatak in the first season of the Clone Wars cartoon series.

Known practitioners: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Darth Sidious, Obi-Wan Kenobi (as a Padawan), Aayla Secura

NOTE: In real life, the name may have been derived from the Japanese verb ataru, which means "to hit" or "to strike."


Form V: Shien / Djem So

The name of the Fifth Form of lightsaber combat varies in different sources. According to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Shien is the Fifth Form. Revenge of the Sith Novelization stated clearly that Shien and Djem So are two different styles, and Anakin Skywalker mastered them both. By comparison, Djem So demonstrated an even higher level of physical strength and aggressive moves. So it is believed that Shien and Djem So both fall under the category of Form V, much like Juyo and Vaapad in Form VII, with Shien better at dealing with blaster bolts and Djem So better at blade-to-blade combat. It can be described as a mix of medieval swordmanship and kendo.

Form V was developed by a group of Jedi Masters who felt that Form III was too passive, while Form IV was not powerful enough. It addressed the shortcomings of both forms, in which a Jedi Master may have proved to be undefeatable but could not overcome the enemy. Among the many unique aspects of Form V was the development of techniques in which the lightsaber was used to deflect a blaster bolt directly back at the firer, deliberately to cause harm to the opponent.

Form V is a powerful style developed by Form III practitioners that preferred a more offensive angle. The defensive nature of Form III often leads to dangerously prolonged combat. This style came about from combining Forms II and III. Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master Plo Koon, and Anakin Skywalker, both as himself and as Darth Vader, are all practitioners of Form V. Jedi Master Agen Kolar may possibly have been a Form V practitioner since he favored aggressive negotiations. Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained, as he was trained as a Jedi by both Obi-Wan Kenobi (Forms III and IV) and Yoda (Form IV). However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Forms III, IV and V mixed together with his own personal styles. It is doubtful that Masters Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the various forms. As with many other aspects of Jedi knighthood, Luke had to improvise and create new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Purge.

Embodying the perfection of the idea of counterattack, Form V maintains its existence through having sufficient defensive skills, as derived from Form III, but channeling defense into offense. While Form III combatants effortlessly deflect laser bolts, Form V practitioners excel at redirecting the laser bolt toward the opponent. This simultaneously defends the user and efficiently injures the opponent. Also, it utilizes Form II's parries, allowing the user to parry the attempted attack, and counter it.

Form V is also different from Form III in the fact that Form V practictioners believe that the best defense is a good offense. It has already been observed that Form III users simply deflect blaster bolts and parry lightsaber attacks until the opponent makes a fatal mistake. Form V practitioners take the near impenetrable defenses of Form III and press the assault, using wide, sweeping blows in an attempt to overwhelm the opponent with brute strength.


Anakin SkywalkerHowever, where Form II concentrated on precise and elegant parries, Form V permits the user to actually fully block and repel attacks since it calls for the use of more brute, Force-enhanced strength. This is evident in Revenge of the Sith when Dooku takes a swing at Anakin and Anakin not only blocks it, but pushes Dooku back with overwhelming strength. Also, in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, we see how Form V can be used to physically bully an opponent. In a rage, Vader continuously locked sabers with Luke only to throw him back and press his assault. The same happened in the second duel as Luke forced Vader back with his onslaught of physical strength.

A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others, Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others. The aggressive philosophy of Form V is the source of many a Jedi's disapproval.

With the offensive but refined movements of Form II and the highly defensive postures of Form III, Form V has been proven to be a highly effective style. Both Form V and VII call for its user to use emotion to enhance their strength. Form V users can best be described as bold, powerful, fearless and confident. They are unafraid to let their emotions rule them and contribute to the fight, though they are wary of falling to the dark side. A master Form V stylist will be able to pull back from the abyss of the dark side, as Luke Skywalker did when he defeated Vader, though that does not always happen.

In the game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords, Jedi Master Vrook teaches the Jedi Exile Shien if the Exile is a Jedi Guardian, a Jedi Sentinel, or the advanced forms of either.

According to Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith The Visual Dictionary, Aayla Secura knows about Djem So as well. It is highly possible that Cin Drallig was also a practitioner of this form, as in the "Revenge of the Sith" video game he uses attacks and stances similar to Anakin's.

Known practitioners: Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Plo Koon, Agen Kolar, Aayla Secura and Master Vrook.


Form VI: Niman

Coleman TreborNiman was the standard style at and around the time period of the Clone Wars and the Great Jedi Purge. This combat discipline is often called the "Diplomat's Form." One can see this in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, when all of the Jedi using Form VI are killed in the Battle of Geonosis, including Coleman Trebor, whose technique could not defend against Jango Fett's masterfully placed blaster shots.

Form VI attempts to balance all elements of lightsaber combat, combining the Forms that came before into a less intensely demanding combat style. The result is that the users' skill in each individual areas of lightsaber combat is only moderate, making Form VI well -suited for diplomats and consulars, as they can spend their time training in the areas of politics, negotiation and Force mastery instead of combat training. It can be affectionately referred to and known as a sort of "Jack of All Trades" form, with mastery of no one aspect of combat, but competency in all.

This was one of the most advanced of the seven primary forms of lightsaber combat developed by the Jedi Knights of the Old Republic. At the time of the Battle of Geonosis, Form VI was the standard in Jedi fighting techniques, emphasizing the use of techniques from Forms I, III, IV, and V in overall moderation.

Many Jedi skilled in Form VI techniques had already spent at least ten years studying the other four Forms, an aspect that many Masters felt was too demanding of the Jedi's time in regards to its benefits on the battlefield.

There is, however, one saving grace to this form not mentioned above. Niman is the stepping stone to the dual lightsaber form, known as Jar'Kai. No one who has successfully mastered Jar'Kai has done so without first mastering Niman.

In Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith The Visual Dictionary, Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi is depicted posed in a Niman ready stance.

Known practitioners: Coleman Trebor, numerous Jedi who perished during the Battle of Geonosis, and others — see Jar'Kai later in this article for a list of former masters


Form VII: Juyo / Vaapad
In the Jedi world, Form VII was an oddity for millennia. It was modified by Jedi Master Mace Windu, who used it to create his Vaapad fighting style. The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Form VII is without question the rarest form, and only two Jedi have ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu and his Padawan, Depa Billaba. Sora Bulq, who instructed Quinlan Vos in a few of its basics, never fully mastered Vaapad; Mace Windu stated that Sora knew "almost as much as him". As stated in Star Wars Insider, Darth Maul was trained in Form VII combat as well.

However, Vaapad borders on the edge of using the dark side, as it channels one's anger and darkness into the attack— it may be related to Japanese shinkengata [1]]. Only Windu's mastery and concentration of the light side prevents him from succumbing, which is why Vaapad is rarely practiced and very dangerous. The only two other known practitioners of Vaapad, Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba, both fell to the dark side of the Force, unable to maintain control over their emotions. Many believed Plo Koon could master Form VII, but he believed that it was too dangerous so he took on Form V instead.

Vaapad goes beyond being a fighting style as it becomes a state of mind and a power. The state of mind requires that a user of Vaapad be allowed to enjoy the fight and be given over to the thrill of battle and the thrill of victory.

The power of Vaapad is simple: it is a channel for one's inner darkness; and it is a reflecting device. With strict control, a person's own emotions and inner darkness can be changed into a weapon of the light. Vaapad is able to take the hatred, anger and rage of the opponent and reflect it back at him. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used Palpatine's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Vaapad is at once a form of lightsaber combat, a state of mind, and an actual tangible power. To use it required great mastery, discipline and, above all else, purity of heart and spirit. Vaapad users are intense, focused, and introverted; there are even signs of pent-up hostility in them.

Intrepid, somewhat direct movements are used in combination with very advanced techniques involving Force-powered jumps and motions. Form VII does not appear as fancy as Form IV, but the technical details of it use very open movements resulting in a very unpredictable battle style. The staccato swings and flow of the form make it seem as if the attacks are not linked—but in reality, it is merely confusing the opponent. The sword techniques of this art are very practical, using "battlefield" philosophy; kill, move on.

Form VII demands the emotional and physical intensity of Form V, but it much more effectively controls it (if mastered). Form VII, when fully mastered, results in extraordinary power.

Only through the learning of several other forms could a Jedi began to understand Form VII, being the most demanding combat style. It involved so much physical combat ability that its training brings a Jedi very close to the Dark Side of the Force. To master Form VII, a Jedi had to employ bold movements and be more kinetic than in any other form. Form VII employed the use of overwhelming power directed through unconnected, precise movements that kept an opponent continually off-guard.

In KOTOR 2, which takes place about 4,000 years before the Clone Wars, the Jedi Exile could learn Juyo from Master Kavar if a Guardian, Weapon Master, or Marauder. This shows that Form VIII was still an effective form for millennia before Mace Windu completed it with Vaapad.


Darth Maul battles Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi.In the novel Star Wars: Shatterpoint, Mace Windu indicated that part of Depa Billaba's Vaapad blade work has even surpassed Mace Windu himself and the Vaapad he created and used.

Another variation of Juyo is used by Master Cin Drallig in the Revenge of the Sith Video Game, whose personal style takes the extremely high speed at which Juyo operates and takes it to a Vaapad-like level without losing the power of normal Juyo (if the word 'normal' could ever accurately describe Juyo).

The form is believed to have died with Mace Windu, as no records exist of its instruction after the end of the Clone Wars.

Known practitioners of Form VII: Mace Windu, Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba, Quinlan Vos (Incomplete Training), Darth Maul, Cin Drallig, Master Kavar.


Other forms of lightsaber combat
These forms are variants and sub-styles evolved from, or to be used with the seven main lightsaber forms. They are founded on the basic principles of combat and survival, or were developed for own personal use.


Form VIII: Sokan
Developed by the ancient Jedi Knights during the Great Sith War, Sokan combined tactics that allowed for evasion and mobility with the kinetic motions of Form IV combat. Sokan involved swift strokes of the lightsaber, which were aimed towards the opponent's vital areas in addition to quick tumbles and movements. Combatants made use of large amounts of terrain, trying to maneuver their opponents into vulnerable areas during the course of battles that involved Sokan techniques.

Some believe that Obi-Wan employed elements of Sokan while dueling Anakin on Mustafar in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, their arguments being that Obi-Wan sought the high ground and used his favorable positioning to defeat Skywalker, attacking his weak points. The novelization by Matthew Stover (page 438), however, implied that Obi-Wan's victory was in fact more due to accident - indeed, a blunder - rather than any real strategic genius.


Form IX: Shien
This variation of Djem-So uniquely involves a Jedi holding the lightsaber horizontally. The Jedi points the end of the blade at the opponent; it is swung in a fast arc while the Jedi punches his saber-hand at his opposing combatant, in a stabbing motion. Adi Gallia uses a personal variation of this Form, holding her saber vertically instead of horizontally, almost as if this Form is aiding the combat of others. In Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker is shown to use this form briefly while engaging Vader from underneath the stairs of the Emperor's throne room, after being taunted into attacking by Vader's comments about turning his sister to the Dark Side.


Form X: Jar'Kai

Asajj VentressThe dual saber Jar'Kai permitted a Jedi to fight with two lightsabers, one in each hand, as seen in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones by Anakin Skywalker. One of the blades in the wielder's hands was used for attacking while the other one was used for defending, such as parrying, or for more offensive power. Often, a Jedi would wield a short lightsaber (very rarely referred to as a "lightdagger") as a main-gauche instead of a normal lightsaber to gain more balance. This technique was probably inspired by the Japanese art of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu. It was said by Master Maruk in the book "Yoda Dark Rendezvous" that those who practice dual sword wield have a tendency to rely to deeply in their swords.

Many Jedi trained to use the Niman style in the hopes of gaining a basic knowledge of the dual-bladed attack, but very few Jedi ever totally mastered Jar'Kai. Serra Keto, Sora Bulq, Asajj Ventress, Komari Vosa, Darth Revan, A'Sharad Hett and Joclad Danva (who can be seen wielding two lightsabers in the background during the Battle of Geonosis), the Dark Jedi Boc and the Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga were all practitioners of Jar'Kai. Niman is the stepping stone to dual saber mastery, and no one has ever fully learned Form X without first mastering Form VI.


"Form Zero"

Form Zero was the basis for instruction of lightsaber combat that was originally defined by Jedi Master Yoda in describing the lightsaber technique of Felanil Baaks. The art of Form Zero lies in a lightsaber that has not been ignited. A Jedi cannot protect and serve the galaxy in the Jedi way if he/she does not know when to draw his/her sword and when to resort to different means of solving a problem. The knowledge, understanding, and wisdom behind the idea of right and wrong encompassed the idea that a Jedi who feels the necessity to use Form Zero, the absence of violence, is truly gifted in the ways of the Force.
 

Scurge

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How is Djem So an intermediate form? You have to know Makashi and Soresu to know.
 

charles-k-f

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Garl Shilar/Jao Vel Dar @ Feb 16 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]32550[/snapback]</div>
How is Djem So an intermediate form? You have to know Makashi and Soresu to know.
[/b]

He got that from Wiki Pedia. Atleast I saw the same thing there.
 

Sabre

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I could punch a lot of holes in that, but won't because I'm far too busy.
 

Scurge

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"Intermediate Forms: (Can be a starting/Padwan Form);
Soresu

Basic Forms;
Ataru"

They might be basic,but once there mastered. There very good forms.
 

Green Ranger

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Bah, Makashi is teh r0x0r2.
 

Kalin Morne

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This again? Oi.


I distinctly remember Niman being described as needing a previous knowledge of the first couple styles. And Ataru isn't a 'basic' form. That's what Yoda used. And Palpatine. Did that look Basic to anyone?


And I think Sokan is more Academic than anything else. I don't think it would be all that advanced. Course, it's really very hard to track Martial Arts into "you have to learn this style in order to learn this style". Really, anyone can learn any Martial Art from any point, and still be proficient. It just might take them longer depending on how complex the maneuvers are.


Do I have to mention that The Jedi Exile learned Makashi, Shii-Cho, and Soresu without needing any training?


Like I said before, Cyril is making the mistake of seeing Dooku beat Obi Wan and Anakin and saying "Better lightsaber style" when it's a style that was developed to combat Single, Lightsaber wielding opponents. Is a Sniper Rifle better than an Assault rifle because it can hit targets up to nearly a kilometer away, while the assault Rifle's bullets wouldn't even reach that far?
 

Cyril Khan

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kalin Morne @ May 8 2006, 11:58 AM) [snapback]59810[/snapback]</div>
This again? Oi.
I distinctly remember Niman being described as needing a previous knowledge of the first couple styles. And Ataru isn't a 'basic' form. That's what Yoda used. And Palpatine. Did that look Basic to anyone?
And I think Sokan is more Academic than anything else. I don't think it would be all that advanced. Course, it's really very hard to track Martial Arts into "you have to learn this style in order to learn this style". Really, anyone can learn any Martial Art from any point, and still be proficient. It just might take them longer depending on how complex the maneuvers are.
Do I have to mention that The Jedi Exile learned Makashi, Shii-Cho, and Soresu without needing any training?
Like I said before, Cyril is making the mistake of seeing Dooku beat Obi Wan and Anakin and saying "Better lightsaber style" when it's a style that was developed to combat Single, Lightsaber wielding opponents. Is a Sniper Rifle better than an Assault rifle because it can hit targets up to nearly a kilometer away, while the assault Rifle's bullets wouldn't even reach that far?
[/b]
eh if you actually read the date its the same one, geez.... just some fool actually looked in here and bumped it up

I know a few things are off but I'm not going to change them cause it won't matter... and I really don't feel like arguing over this so stuff it

And if you assume I am saying something becaus I saw one meezly fight, you are the ignorant fool; unlike you I actually use multiple sourse before I put something down... instead of going to wikipedia and slapping down what it says... I have a very complex reasoning on why makashi is difficult to master as apposed to soresu.
 

Kalin Morne

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Wikipedia is convenient. Enough said.

Do we have to have the insults though?
 

Revan The Great

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Kalin, you're the one being insulting. Believe it or not, what you said insinuating Cyril didn't know what he was talking about, and you blew him off on that assumption.

It's really rude to just assume people don't know what they're talking about, then that's that.
 

Kalin Morne

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Unfortunately, claiming someone's information was incorrect, and that they made a mistake is not an insult. You see, an insult is a Personal Attack on someone. When I go into a debate and say "Hm, your information isn't right, I believe you're mistaken." I'm attacking the Information provided. Not the person.

Essentially you're saying that if anyone has a differing opinion on something, in any regard, in any way, and they express it, they're being 'insulting'.
 

Cyril Khan

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kalin Morne @ May 9 2006, 09:27 AM) [snapback]60174[/snapback]</div>
Unfortunately, claiming someone's information was incorrect, and that they made a mistake is not an insult. You see, an insult is a Personal Attack on someone. When I go into a debate and say "Hm, your information isn't right, I believe you're mistaken." I'm attacking the Information provided. Not the person.

Essentially you're saying that if anyone has a differing opinion on something, in any regard, in any way, and they express it, they're being 'insulting'.
[/b]
Raven, is actually right on this; You insulted me by assuming I would bais my oppinion by taking it from one source. Like I said I go to many sources before I keep my point firm; I may be wrong, I may be right, but saying I made a mistake by using one source when I've used multiple is seriously very insulting...

"Like I said before, Cyril is making the mistake of seeing Dooku beat Obi Wan and Anakin and saying "Better lightsaber style" when it's a style that was developed to combat Single, Lightsaber wielding opponents."

1) you never said that before
2) my point above is seen (underlined)
3) it is coming to my attention that in previous arguements in PM's you weren'
t
actually looking at my points... I may have used Dooku vs Obi as an example but that was never even in my main part of my arguement.
4) I fail to see where I said it was better; all I said was that it would be hard to master

I guess we ought to keep it known throughout the world that Yankees are smart and always right and Rednecks are dumb and have no clue what they're talking about...

Edit: yes I know bais isn't being used correctly, but you know what I mean
 

Kalin Morne

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyril Khan @ May 9 2006, 12:42 PM) [snapback]60189[/snapback]</div>
Raven, is actually right on this; You insulted me by assuming I would bais my oppinion by taking it from one source. Like I said I go to many sources before I keep my point firm; I may be wrong, I may be right, but saying I made a mistake by using one source when I've used multiple is seriously very insulting...

"Like I said before, Cyril is making the mistake of seeing Dooku beat Obi Wan and Anakin and saying "Better lightsaber style" when it's a style that was developed to combat Single, Lightsaber wielding opponents."

1) you never said that before
2) my point above is seen (underlined)
3) it is coming to my attention that in previous arguements in PM's you weren'
t
actually looking at my points... I may have used Dooku vs Obi as an example but that was never even in my main part of my arguement.
4) I fail to see where I said it was better; all I said was that it would be hard to master

I guess we ought to keep it known throughout the world that Yankees are smart and always right and Rednecks are dumb and have no clue what they're talking about...

Edit: yes I know bais isn't being used correctly, but you know what I mean
[/b]

No, it's not insulting. You're saying you're insulted now because Raven said it was insulting, you're trying to reaffirm his position and your own by discrediting my comments as being overly aggressive.

1. I have said it before.
2. Your point is you grasping for something to discredit me.
3. Again, you're trying to discredit me without actually combating my comments.
4. In your words, you described the word 'elegant' as being 'higher grade' or 'better' during our previous discussion. As such, 'a better form of combat'. Which, of course, is technically right, but semantically wrong.

Where the hell did the Regional stuff come from? My boyfriend is from the South.

eh if you actually read the date its the same one, geez.... just some fool actually looked in here and bumped it up

I know a few things are off but I'm not going to change them cause it won't matter... and I really don't feel like arguing over this so stuff it

And if you assume I am saying something becaus I saw one meezly fight, you are the ignorant fool; unlike you I actually use multiple sourse before I put something down... instead of going to wikipedia and slapping down what it says... I have a very complex reasoning on why makashi is difficult to master as apposed to soresu.[/b]
 

Cyril Khan

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kalin Morne @ May 9 2006, 01:17 PM) [snapback]60196[/snapback]</div>
No, it's not insulting. You're saying you're insulted now because Raven said it was insulting, you're trying to reaffirm his position and your own by discrediting my comments as being overly aggressive.

1. I have said it before.
2. Your point is you grasping for something to discredit me.
3. Again, you're trying to discredit me without actually combating my comments.
4. In your words, you described the word 'elegant' as being 'higher grade' or 'better' during our previous discussion. As such, 'a better form of combat'. Which, of course, is technically right, but semantically wrong.

Where the hell did the Regional stuff come from? My boyfriend is from the South.
[/b]
You are not in the place to say whether something was insulting; an insult can occur if it is meant or not. You insulted me; and the way I react to insults is the same way my Cyril acts in a fight; if you want to turn to insults then I'll turn to insults

Again you insult me; My point is not to discredit you; you're a socialist, you know propaganda, this isn't it. All I need to discredit you in my life is the fact you are a homosexual, socialist, and a Yankee who thinks he knows everything.

the red: STFU on the not combating you comments... I DO... if you are to stupid to actually see it then stop arguing... what you don't get is that what you say isn't always right, and when some so-called dumb ass actually says you are wrong (probably the first time ever in your life) you get upset. In every heated debate we've been in you say I fail to respond to your comments; I look over the debate and I fail to see what you are refering to...

'elegance' is something not easily obtained; if it was why is Makashi the only elegant form?

Heh, he probably couldn't handel all the baptists who hate gay people. Also it is very clear that a person from true Yankee (one who thinks they know more they everyone else-- or basically anyone from Mass. or Conn.) cannot get along with a Redneck. Thus it is proved.


Note: I am not racist at all, it is just that ever since the Civil War there has been conflict between the north and the south (I know people from the north can get along with those in the south cause my sister is in a northern college). There still is conflict between the North and the south and there will always be; may it just be that the Yankees think they are smarter than us or whatever

Though I am anti-homosexual and that will not change; scorn me if you wish... do what you want I could care less...
 

Kalin Morne

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyril Khan @ May 9 2006, 01:56 PM) [snapback]60206[/snapback]</div>
You are not in the place to say whether something was insulting; an insult can occur if it is meant or not. You insulted me; and the way I react to insults is the same way my Cyril acts in a fight; if you want to turn to insults then I'll turn to insults

Again you insult me; My point is not to discredit you; you're a socialist, you know propaganda, this isn't it. All I need to discredit you in my life is the fact you are a homosexual, socialist, and a Yankee who thinks he knows everything.

the red: STFU on the not combating you comments... I DO... if you are to stupid to actually see it then stop arguing... what you don't get is that what you say isn't always right, and when some so-called dumb ass actually says you are wrong (probably the first time ever in your life) you get upset. In every heated debate we've been in you say I fail to respond to your comments; I look over the debate and I fail to see what you are refering to...

'elegance' is something not easily obtained; if it was why is Makashi the only elegant form?

Heh, he probably couldn't handel all the baptists who hate gay people. Also it is very clear that a person from true Yankee (one who thinks they know more they everyone else-- or basically anyone from Mass. or Conn.) cannot get along with a Redneck. Thus it is proved.
Note: I am not racist at all, it is just that ever since the Civil War there has been conflict between the north and the south (I know people from the north can get along with those in the south cause my sister is in a northern college). There still is conflict between the North and the south and there will always be; may it just be that the Yankees think they are smarter than us or whatever

Though I am anti-homosexual and that will not change; scorn me if you wish... do what you want I could care less...
[/b]


It's evident from your hate-speech that I could say the sky was blue and you'd still counter it. You just essentially admitted that this debate has less to do with the fact that I disagree with you, than it does with the fact that I'm a free-thinking individual, with respect to the common man, a desire for equality and civil liberty and who's recognised and accepted the fact that I find other men attractive who just so happens to live in the Northern United States. But I think the fact that my boyfriend lives in Texas, and was born in Louisiana kind of destroys part of your arguement. I'm done here, you've proven you're set in your own, bigoted, disfunctional viewpoints so much that anything I say you'll still flip out about.

I'm requesting that if any of the established authority here find reason to take action, they won't.
 

Matt

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Calm down gentlemen.
 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mandalore @ May 9 2006, 02:18 PM) [snapback]60215[/snapback]</div>
Calm down gentlemen.
[/b]


I am calm, I'm not mad at all, really. This may be wrong for me to say, but I'm feeling more pity than anything else.
 

Cyril Khan

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Calm? I'm calm; I don't need pity from you; though I do pity you, Kalin, who commits an act of foolishness everytime he replies to what I say (especially in this thread); he assumes how I work

No; I am not arguing against for the reasons you place. The fact that you are a know-it-all adds to my will to argue. Homosexuality; has little to do with the arguements; it doesn't help as I veiw it as wrong in more was than just moraly. "the fact that I'm a free-thinking individual, with respect to the common man, a desire for equality and civil liberty"; thats not why I dislike socialists, it is for other reasons

Well; I don't need to assume anything about you, Kalin. There was a point when I was trying to show some kindness to you, yet you twisted my kindness into some form of attack; you take everything I say as an attack to you. It is obvious once you have made up you mind about someone you won't change it; and when they show the slightest kindness to you you slap them in their face. (It was a two day period when I tried to show kindness but I gave up because you wouldn't accept it)

If you intend on being the way you have been to me from the very first reply to me on this site I would suggest you refrain from responding to my posts; right now you alone are trashing my reputation by being one of my pet peeves; a variation of a know-it-all.

I am sick of looking at treads and seeing your name as a reply to one of mine; because either I have to protect a point of mine or protect my reputation as I have had to do in this thread.

Oh, and if you did know everything, or everything you say is correct then I just realized on freakign thing... everything I learned from pre-k trough highschool has been a waste time because it is bullshit; I might as well quit my classes because all my teachers are wrong about everything; man I wish I was as smart as you!
 

Kalin Morne

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyril Khan @ May 9 2006, 02:49 PM) [snapback]60229[/snapback]</div>
Calm? I'm calm; I don't need pity from you; though I do pity you, Kalin, who commits an act of foolishness everytime he replies to what I say (especially in this thread); he assumes how I work

No; I am not arguing against for the reasons you place. The fact that you are a know-it-all adds to my will to argue. Homosexuality; has little to do with the arguements; it doesn't help as I veiw it as wrong in more was than just moraly. "the fact that I'm a free-thinking individual, with respect to the common man, a desire for equality and civil liberty"; thats not why I dislike socialists, it is for other reasons

Well; I don't need to assume anything about you, Kalin. There was a point when I was trying to show some kindness to you, yet you twisted my kindness into some form of attack; you take everything I say as an attack to you. It is obvious once you have made up you mind about someone you won't change it; and when they show the slightest kindness to you you slap them in their face. (It was a two day period when I tried to show kindness but I gave up because you wouldn't accept it)

If you intend on being the way you have been to me from the very first reply to me on this site I would suggest you refrain from responding to my posts; right now you alone are trashing my reputation by being one of my pet peeves; a variation of a know-it-all.

I am sick of looking at treads and seeing your name as a reply to one of mine; because either I have to protect a point of mine or protect my reputation as I have had to do in this thread.

Oh, and if you did know everything, or everything you say is correct then I just realized on freakign thing... everything I learned from pre-k trough highschool has been a waste time because it is bullshit; I might as well quit my classes because all my teachers are wrong about everything; man I wish I was as smart as you!
[/b]



You're self-projecting. And reconstructing. I don't have a problem with you, you have to deal with some serious introspection.
 
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