Organa rescue OOC

[Faded]

I am gonna go ahead and disagree about the defense not working, seeinghow its a matter or timing. Even if the autohit happens, it would happen after getting force pushed since it's clearly timed to happen a bit before the lightsaber attacks, once you enter the narrow path, if I recall correctly, which means you would be falling as said autohit happens, if it weren't for that "second defense"

Autohit ain't an instant hit, the attacks of the enemy don't just not work because of them, not unless those attacks happened before the enemy's, and since his condition to defend is dependant of his push, which is still directed towards you, he gets a defense

I had a similar ruling to that in my last pvp, in which an autohit was avoided all because of timing and conditions like that, which was only luck, lind of like right now, but still valid

Can you link me to the page that has the ruling at? Which ruling is it so I can review it?

 

[Faded]

I am gonna go ahead and disagree about the defense not working, seeinghow its a matter or timing. Even if the autohit happens, it would happen after getting force pushed since it's clearly timed to happen a bit before the lightsaber attacks, once you enter the narrow path, if I recall correctly, which means you would be falling as said autohit happens, if it weren't for that "second defense"

Autohit ain't an instant hit, the attacks of the enemy don't just not work because of them, not unless those attacks happened before the enemy's, and since his condition to defend is dependant of his push, which is still directed towards you, he gets a defense

I had a similar ruling to that in my last pvp, in which an autohit was avoided all because of timing and conditions like that, which was only luck, lind of like right now, but still valid

Nevermind, I found it. If you are talking about Phoenix's ruling then that is not applicable to this scenario. I was following that PvP thread of yours actually when you were involved in it.

In that scenario, your attack was conditional on seeing Black Noise's character. Hence the autohit was nullified because your attack never took place. My attack takes place, this is an interrupt attempt without an acknowledgment of my attack at all. This still falls under autohit criteria.

@Pyrenees

So we haven't been debating the interrupt validity but in regards to whether it would be successful or not, my opinion is: Maybe. Vardon gets force pushed with a prepared attack immediately prior, an attack which is specifically designed to throw him off balance so that Roman can gain the upper hand. Moving 20 meters or so with Force Speed would only take a few seconds at best, which means your entire interrupt rests on split second timing which is not always credible in PvP scenarios.

 

[Versok]

Nevermind, I found it. If you are talking about Phoenix's ruling then that is not applicable to this scenario. I was following that PvP thread of yours actually when you were involved in it.

In that scenario, your attack was conditional on seeing Black Noise's character. Hence the autohit was nullified because your attack never took place. My attack takes place, this is an interrupt attempt without an acknowledgment of my attack at all. This still falls under autohit criteria.

@Pyrenees

So we haven't been debating the interrupt validity but in regards to whether it would be successful or not, my opinion is: Maybe. Vardon gets force pushed with a prepared attack immediately prior, an attack which is specifically designed to throw him off balance so that Roman can gain the upper hand. Moving 20 meters or so with Force Speed would only take a few seconds at best, which means your entire interrupt rests on split second timing which is not always credible in PvP scenarios.

I mean, not much of an split second timing seeing how your attack only made Vardon take back a few steps (You could have argued that your attack did more than just that before, but since you posted that's locked on) which would mean like, a second lost or so, and you are saying it would take a few seconds for your sith to get there, a force push is a basic power that can be done pretty fast, like when you guys tried to push me into the wall, and Vardon doesn't need to force push with that much strength due to the fact that its a force push directed towards your legs from the front while you are going at superhuman speeds, it's kind of like tripping someone with your leg while they are running, just instead of tripping from the side you are tripping from the front, which made it even easier to fall, and a lvl 2 character can force push harder than a lvl1 in the same amount of time and you can't have any force defense against it since you are using the force while running so there is that.

And the reason why my OOC is relevant is because, while the condition is set by the defender in this case, it's still quite similar. My condition in that thread was that "if I see her, I shoot at her" And couldn't be done because of timing since she would be hiding behind a dumpster by the time I shot. In this case the condition is "If Roman is falling down, Vardon will block whatever comes his way" And the probability of Roman falling down is there because the force push clearly comes up before you are close enough and would make you fall down if it works, which, then again, returns us to if the push is valid, which I have explained above and should focus on if you still don't think the push is enough.

 

[Faded]

@Versok @Pyrenees

As per our discussion on Discord and seems we can't seem to come to a compromise on the damage taken, I've gone ahead and reported Pyrenees post for potential autohit.

 

[Loco]

Ruling: This is not an autohit.

"In the unlikely case of an attack at this point, his saber would be well positioned to defend against it."

I really dont understand how you could read this line, combined with an interrupt that clearly takes place before you make the attack this line is intended to defend against, and think you had a clear cut case of autohit. Autohit reports for inadequate defenses are reserved for truly egregious cases, and failure to address an attack entirely doesn't count when this line is infinitely clear in it's intent. To think there even MIGHT be an autohit in this case you have have to turn the whole thread upside down, hop up and down on one leg and squint sideways at it.

@Faded, you're trying to get a hit by digging your heels in and arguing at length about technicalities of technicalities TWO DAYS before the TL ends. It's exactly the sort of pedantic bad faith argument we've all come to hate, members and PvP admins alike, and have talked AT LENGTH about avoiding through multiple announcement threads and discord discussions. Try winning by actually writing, fighting, and finishing a pvp, instead of by rules lawyering- you're not that good at it- and wearing people down in the OOC.

With less than a month left before we switch everything over, I'm not giving you a hard PvP ban. That said, I expect you to refrain from it during the epilogue if at all possible, and really reconsider your involvement in PvP when the new TL launches. Practically every PvP you're involved in becomes a problem. If this continues, we will not hesitate to give you a pvp ban. This is your only warning.

@Versok @Pyrenees

 

[Faded]

@Versok @Pyrenees

I'll make edits later this afternoon in accordance with the ruling.

 

[Faded]

@Versok @Pyrenees

Edits made

 

[Versok]

Hey @ByakuyaXVTogami so since we clearly don't have time to end the pvp, Faded and I came to an agreement so you guys managed to kill an hostage and we ran away with the rest, Faded is supposed to edit soon his post so he does that and Vardon and I will then leave with the rest of them, making this more or less a draw, so, I recommend you let your character be hit by the concussion grenade so he is dazed and has a reason as to why he isn't pursuing us after that.

 

[ByakuyaXVMarkov]

Hey @ByakuyaXVTogami so since we clearly don't have time to end the pvp, Faded and I came to an agreement so you guys managed to kill an hostage and we ran away with the rest, Faded is supposed to edit soon his post so he does that and Vardon and I will then leave with the rest of them, making this more or less a draw, so, I recommend you let your character be hit by the concussion grenade so he is dazed and has a reason as to why he isn't pursuing us after that.

Yeah that’s what I was told, but as long as you’re fast enough Kynigos will think you’re running as a coward. I won’t be able to really edit stuff tonight cuz I’m really busy.