So what does America look like on the other side of default?

[Random Hero]

I have zero confidence in our government doing anything that will matter come August 2nd.

So my question is what happens after default?

 

[Keanu]

A bigger recession. Crashing of the world economy. You know. The usual

 

[Brandon Rhea]

 

[Keanu]

accurate in an extreme case yeah

 

[Horizon]

I love fallout images.

 

[Random Hero]

That bad huh?

Well that sucks.

 

[Sovereign]

there wont be a default. dont worry.

 

[Random Hero]

there wont be a default. dont worry.

That will happen before Washington puts politics aside to do something.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

That will happen before Washington puts politics aside to do something.

Washington always ends up doing what they're supposed to do at the last minute in order to avoid a disaster. Neither party can let the country default because they'd both be blamed.

 

[Viggy]

Washington always ends up doing what they're supposed to do at the last minute in order to avoid a disaster. Neither party can let the country default because they'd both be blamed.

So ultimately, you think they'll raise the debt ceiling? Or do something else? (can't think what else there is to do to avoid defaulting, but I'm no expert)

 

[Brandon Rhea]

So ultimately, you think they'll raise the debt ceiling? Or do something else? (can't think what else there is to do to avoid defaulting, but I'm no expert)

My guess is that there will be a temporary deal. The debt ceiling will be raised, there will be some spending cuts, and there won't be any tax increases in any way, shape, or form. However, the cuts will be small, and there will be no additional revenue, so odds are the debt ceiling would have to be raised after a few weeks or a few months and we'll be right back into the same debate.

I hope I'm wrong, because by the time a second deal would have to be made, the Republican primaries and, by extension, the 2012 election will be well underway. If you think it's overly political now, just you wait.

What we really need is a comprehensive plan that tackles long term spending and ensures that we have adequate revenue (i.e. taxes) for the government to function. That way, we can start reducing the debt and deficit, which will NOT happen without tax increases.

 

[Viggy]

My guess is that there will be a temporary deal. The debt ceiling will be raised, there will be some spending cuts, and there won't be any tax increases in any way, shape, or form. However, the cuts will be small, and there will be no additional revenue, so odds are the debt ceiling would have to be raised after a few weeks or a few months and we'll be right back into the same debate.

I hope I'm wrong, because by the time a second deal would have to be made, the Republican primaries and, by extension, the 2012 election will be well underway. If you think it's overly political now, just you wait.

What we really need is a comprehensive plan that tackles long term spending and ensures that we have adequate revenue (i.e. taxes) for the government to function. That way, we can start reducing the debt and deficit, which will NOT happen without tax increases.

So raising taxes is the only way to fix your economic troubles, and the idea of downsizing government is useless/not enough? Playing a little devil's advocate here, I think your taxes should indeed be raised, if only because I'm jealous that they're lower then ours.

 

[Matt]

You should see our ****ing taxes.

 

[Viggy]

Heh. Well, you might pay more taxes then us, but it's way cheaper and way more convenient for you to visit all those awesome places in Europe.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

So raising taxes is the only way to fix your economic troubles, and the idea of downsizing government is useless/not enough? Playing a little devil's advocate here, I think your taxes should indeed be raised, if only because I'm jealous that they're lower then ours.

We should downsize government. Entitlements are out of control and grow at a rate that can't be kept up with in terms of revenue, and if you looked at our defense budget you'd think we were still fighting the Soviet Union in 1975. We have military bases with tens of thousands of troops in Germany and Japan, and we're fighting two and a half fairly pointless wars (the half being Libya).

The United States has a defense budget that's bigger than the next 20 countries combined. As of 2010, the United States spent over 687 billion on defense spending. Here are the countries that, when combined, still add up to less than that:

China
France
United Kingdom
Russia
Japan
Germany
Saudi Arabia
Italy
India
Brazil
South Korea
Canada
Australia
Spain
United Arab Emirates
Turkey
Israel
The Netherlands
Greece
Colombia

Add those 20 countries together and they spend a combined 631 billion dollars on defense spending -- 50 billion less than the United States, which is just one country! And of those 20 countries, the vast majority are allies and NONE are enemies. There are some frenemies up there, but no actual enemies. Iran is #25, North Korea is #153, Pakistan is #33, Syria is #53, Lebanon is #58, Libya is #69, etc.

We could slash our defense budget in half and still spend more than the combined total of China, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, and Japan, and the only one that we really need to be concerned about on that list is China, because Russia's not stupid and they're really just pathetic shells of their former selves.

Obviously I'm not advocating slashing the defense budget in half, that would be kind of ridiculous, but as it stands we're spending over 500 billion dollars more than China on defense spending. That's 4.7% of our GDP, and that's money being spent oversees to blow shit up that could be spent here in America. I liked what Obama said in his speed last week: it's time to begin nation building here in America.

Reforming entitlements and cutting defense spending can significantly reduce the federal budget. However, because those take time, and because when it comes to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security you'd be trying to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and the middle class (especially when the Republicans have just been slashing discretionary spending because it's easier and poor people have no political voice), taxes have to be raised -- starting with the richest 1% -- and the tax code needs to be reformed to get rid of tax loopholes so people are actually paying what they're supposed to be paying.

A combination of spending decreases and revenue increases will balance the budget fairly, will cut our deficit, and will allow us to actually begin reducing our debt instead of increasing it.

It's really not hard.

 

[Horizon]

Bac for president anyone?

 

[Matt]

It is when you have massive defense companies with powerful friends.

I'm not one of those conspiracy nutters but it makes you think.

Your defense budget is mental.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It is when you have massive defense companies with powerful friends.

I'm not one of those conspiracy nutters but it makes you think.

Your defense budget is mental.

It's not some evil New World Order conspiracy but it is the brilliance of the military industrial complex, as Eisenhower warned about. The military industrial complex has made it so there are parts for military equipment and what not made in most legislative districts in the United States. So when most members of Congress try to cut the defense budget, they could very well be cutting jobs in their districts, meaning that people could be pissed off come Election Day.

 

[Viggy]

because Russia's not stupid and they're really just pathetic shells of their former selves.

Ahem, but seriously, your entire post made good sense to me. Your military budget is ludicrous and should definitely be cut. I don't even think you should be worried about China, militarily speaking. The USA and China need each other.

 

[Ser Gregor]

China's been on the 'please don't attack us we're not a threat' binge for the past year anyway.