SPOILER THREAD: The Last Jedi

[Alhon]

I'm glad we didn't learn any of that info about Snoke. We don't need it. We just need to know he's a creepy cult leader and Kylo got tired of his shit. Just like in Return of the Jedi, we didn't need to know anything about who the Emperor was or how he came to power. Movies don't need to function as Wookieepedia pages, but now that Snoke is dead, I'm sure books and comics will begin to shed light on him for those who are interested in diving deeper into that lore.

I suppose that is true. It's worked that way so far for characters like Poe and Phasma and Hux. Explaining every backstory for every new character would just drag on more of the movie, and might be just too much information overload for "some" people.

It's not a big thing for me particularly. It was just that Snoke was our big bad dark Lord. TFA / TLJ, unlike a New Hope when it first came out, follow on from an established canon. Emperor Palpatine was just there. By contrast, we come to these new films knowing that the Sith were dealt a pretty big blow in ROTJ. Though its easy to imagine how something like the First Order reforms from the crumbled Empire, it just didn't seem as readily apparent how someone as powerful as Snoke comes into existence to lead it. That was all.

I'm glad there seems to be a really positive consensus about the movie generally. Hopefully Disney will bring more of the same for years to come!

 

[Nor'baal]

I was very upset when the slicer (well the white jacket dude, the actual slicer) wasn't Lando. Would have been a lovely touch.

They see Lando, we see Lando, but by a qwerk of fate, the characters never meet.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It was just that Snoke was our big bad dark Lord.

I'm going to ask a question that I think strikes at the heart of how Johnson wrote this movie:

Was Snoke (see also: Rey's parents) actually a big deal, or did you just think it was a big deal?

Snoke was ultimately just a creepy cult leader. He somehow, as I'm sure we'll learn in the ancillary material but which isn't particularly important to the story of the movie IMO, took control over the wannbe Imperials who were happy to be cultists to a madman if it meant taking over the galaxy.

Everything we need to know about what the First Order truly is can be told through Hux. Snoke outright called him a useful idiot, a means to an end. Then look at Hux's reaction to Snoke's death vs the reaction of the Imperials after Palpatine's death. After the Battle of Endor, everyone and their mother was like "I'm in charge now!" Whereas Snoke dies and Hux is like "We have no ruler! We can't do anything! OH SHIT WHAT DO"

The First Order is ultimately just a poor imitation of the Empire with wannabe Nazis and creepy rulers who happened to get lucky because the Republic didn't take them seriously. Because while the these neo-fascists had money and power and the ability to influence other people, publicly they just looked like idiots.

Not that such things could ever hap-

Oh... right...

 

[Nor'baal]

*winces in sheer agony*

I agree with....

*Downs vodka*

...b....

*Takes codine to fight the pain*

I agree with Brandon.

There.
I said it.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

It would've been nice to know who Snoke was though. You gotta admit that. I was pretty disappointed that this all powerful force user could be so easily tricked by Kylo. It was basically like the writers themselves didn't care about Snoke so they simply killed him off so easily.

The dude literally is able to connect Kylo amd Rey together with the force all across the galaxy. But he can't sense a lightsaber turning immediately next to him? It was cheap.

 

[Insalius]

It made sense in the scene, though. Snoke was powerful, but not Omniscient. He was so focused on reveling in the turning of Kylo Ren fully to the Dark Side that he didn't pay attention to anything else. He was also probably using quite a bit of power to restrain Rey at the same time, so he had to keep his focus there, too. If there was any time to do what Kylo did, that was the time.

 

[Gamov]

It would've been nice to know who Snoke was though. You gotta admit that. I was pretty disappointed that this all powerful force user could be so easily tricked by Kylo. It was basically like the writers themselves didn't care about Snoke so they simply killed him off so easily.

The dude literally is able to connect Kylo amd Rey together with the force all across the galaxy. But he can't sense a lightsaber turning immediately next to him? It was cheap.

Really wasn't any different than Palpatine letting himself get chucked down a reactor shaft by his own apprentice.


That said though, I actually bothered to spend the money to go see TLJ in theaters (as opposed to my approach with TFA where I just waited for its release on blu-ray), and I found it pretty 'meh' overall. I'm fairly positive that I'm in the minority with my opinion, but I'm having a difficult time finding 'the spark' in the new trilogy the way I found it with the OT, or even the PT.

I'll spare everyone a wall of text pointing out everything that I dislike about TLJ (of TFA for that matter), but suffice it to say I personally feel my lack of enthusiasm for the sequels is due entirely to the fact that I don't find any of the lead characters even slightly compelling. It isn't because Rey is a 'random' or because Kylo is a conflicted anti-Vader (in every sense of the word), or even because Finn seems to be filling the role of "Star Wars' black guy" (ala Lando and Windu), I just don't seem to care where any of their stories are going or what that means for the saga overall.

And for the record, I did read spoilers before going to see the movie for myself, so I knew (more or less) what to expect. I just felt context was important rather than allowing reviews (which seem to be universally positive) to color my opinion. In the grand scheme of things though, TLJ didn't inspire any stronger emotions in me than TFA did.

 

[Malon]

I have to agree with @Brandon Rhea. People were the victims of their own expectations with Snoke. They expected this big, badass, mysterious dark sider and—what he appeared to me, based on his own actions and Kylo's dialogue after he was dead—he was just a Sith wannabe. Definitely powerful, but perhaps not as important to the story as we projected onto him. Too many of us just expected him to be "the new Palpatine."

I, for one, loved the twist partially because I too made that mistake, so I didn't expect them to kill Snoke until IX. And the fight scene afterwards, for me, was godly. Ugh. Still reeling. The movie was great.

 

[Evelyn Roslin]

I also had a 'meh' reaction to it. I thought it was better than Force Awakens, but fell short of Rogue Squadron.

I think the issue is that I'm starting to get tired of watching what seems to be a continuation of the Rebel/Empire drama from the original trilogy. I get it, the First Order is different, but we've gone right back to watching a rebel force, led by Leia, fighting against a foe with far greater military resources. At least Rogue Squadron zoomed in to give us a view we never had before, exploring characters who weren't part of the Skywalker clan. I was excited to see what happened in that film, even though I knew the ending; with Last Jedi, even though I didn't know the ending, it felt like I was watching a re-run in many ways. I'm glad they will (hopefully) wrap up the saga that's driven the storyline since the original trilogy in Episode IX; it's had a good run, but I'm ready to explore more of the galaxy than what we've seen.

I wasn't necessarily expecting more to be revealed about Snoke, and wasn't certain of his power, but I did feel like it was a pretty lame way for him to go out. He kept repeating how Kylo was supposed to be Vader's legacy, yet he utterly failed to note that in the end, Vader turned and killed his master. Hell, as a (supposed) Sith, he should expect that at some point Kylo was going to turn against him anyways, if only to seize power. Instead, he put his apprentice in nearly the exact situation that caused Vader to turn, and got caught off-guard just as badly as the Emperor, despite knowing how it ended the first time.

I *was* glad when Kylo revealed that as his reasoning behind killing Snoke- in many ways, it was a power grab, even if Kylo doesn't want to frame in those terms.

Also, I found myself caring much more about the side characters - Rose, Admiral Holdo, Benicio del Toro's character - than nearly any of the main characters, save Rey. I found myself hoping Poe and Finn would get knocked off (heroically, of course), so that there'd be room to explore other characters.

Luke's astral projection was pretty cool though. And, I have hope that the next film will be free to go in a new direction now that they've refreshingly established that Rey's power doesn't stem from being related to the Skywalker family in some shape or form.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie, but wasn't knocked out of my seat, and find myself looking forward more to getting past this storyline to move onto new aspects of the Star Wars universe (hopefully).

 

[Ulysses]

I was firmly in the "no info on Snoke is cheap" camp, for the reason given above - Snoke comes into a universe already created, unlike the mysterious "emperor".

However, I can buy the "does it matter" position advocated by Brandon, but for one question: what was Snoke doing while Palpatine was around? In particular, was he subordinate to or a (puppet)master of the Sith, or was he totally separate?

I read something (wish I could remember where) that suggested he was a super emperor, pulling Palpatine's strings and setting up the resurgence of the empire. But if so, why reveal himself now and not just let Kylo think he was new emperor?
If a subordinate to emperor, presumably also subordinate to Vader so very much down the pecking order. Therefore weird reaction to his death of "what do we do now".
If totally separate, how did he get himself so central?

 

[Mr.BossMan]

It made sense in the scene, though. Snoke was powerful, but not Omniscient. He was so focused on reveling in the turning of Kylo Ren fully to the Dark Side that he didn't pay attention to anything else. He was also probably using quite a bit of power to restrain Rey at the same time, so he had to keep his focus there, too. If there was any time to do what Kylo did, that was the time.

That was actually my reasoning behind it aswell. Still I'd have liked something else though. But I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Phil]

Snoke could of been a surviving Inquisitor for all we know, or maybe he too was a nobody like Rey is, and just happened to be powerful in the force. Or maybe he was a clone of Darth Bane. Whatever the case, I think Brandon makes a point in his previous point. Now we got the second coming of Adolf Hitler that is Kylo Ren running things in The First Order, and I can only wonder how things will go from there.

Two things though. Firstly, if Rey is just a Nobody, then Finn was also just as much a nobody, then how is it the Lightsaber called to her and "awakened" her but it didn't to Finn? I think there is more to Rey then meets the eye, but I still hope she is NOT from someone we know.

Secondly, what did everybody make of the very last scene, with the kid and the broom? To me, I don't ever expect to see him again, at all. If anything, my Costume Group Leader said that it shows that just about anyone can be a hero, and I find myself agreeing to that.

And to buy their toys, but mostly the first.

 

[Arcangel]

Snoke could of been a surviving Inquisitor for all we know, or maybe he too was a nobody like Rey is, and just happened to be powerful in the force. Or maybe he was a clone of Darth Bane. Whatever the case, I think Brandon makes a point in his previous point. Now we got the second coming of Adolf Hitler that is Kylo Ren running things in The First Order, and I can only wonder how things will go from there.

Two things though. Firstly, if Rey is just a Nobody, then Finn was also just as much a nobody, then how is it the Lightsaber called to her and "awakened" her but it didn't to Finn? I think there is more to Rey then meets the eye, but I still hope she is NOT from someone we know.

Secondly, what did everybody make of the very last scene, with the kid and the broom? To me, I don't ever expect to see him again, at all. If anything, my Costume Group Leader said that it shows that just about anyone can be a hero, and I find myself agreeing to that.

And to buy their toys, but mostly the first.

Why would the lightsaber call to Finn? Nothing we have seen indicates that he is sensitive to the force.

 

[Phil]

Why would the lightsaber call to Finn? Nothing we have seen indicates that he is sensitive to the force.

Which makes me think there is more to Rey then her being a nobody. She went from Scavanger to mindtricking James Bond and yanking lightsabers out of the snow in... what, less then a day after she touched the Lightsaber? Far faster then Luke or even Anakin did, especially with "The Last Jedi" taking place immediately after "The Force Awakens".

But I think it's established that the Force can work through anyone with the right... prerequisites? The stable boy at the end is clear enough on that. If Finn focused and stopped being cowardly and selfish, he could have probably learned to use the Force as well.

 

[Andrewza]

i liked actually i loved it. Some of the acts where not needed but i enjoyed watching them. All so that FTL kill on the first order fleet was some thing to behold.



All so i love how poe plan to save the day failed. It was a good twist.


All so Luke projecting him self through the force was really some thing else.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Rey can be a nobody and still have the lightsaber call to her, and just because she's a nobody doesn't mean that the lightsaber has to call to another nobody.

Rey is still chosen by the Force, even if she doesn't come from any sort of important lineage.

Luke said that the light side doesn't belong to the Jedi. Kylo made the point that the dark doesn't belong to the Sith.

The Last Jedi makes the overall point that the Star Wars story doesn't belong to the Skywalkers, or to other important people.

It belongs to those who dare to dream.

 

[Gamov]

I think the issue is that I'm starting to get tired of watching what seems to be a continuation of the Rebel/Empire drama from the original trilogy. I get it, the First Order is different, but we've gone right back to watching a rebel force, led by Leia, fighting against a foe with far greater military resources.

I would agree with this sentiment, personally.

So far the sequel trilogy seems locked into rehashing the struggle between a small band of resistance fighters (the Rebellion/Resistance) and an insidious pseudo-fascist/Nazi regime (the Empire/First Order). What has really disappointed me about the way this story has been told thus far though is (as it has been stated earlier), the First Order is inept and has really only come as far as it has because (surprise surprise) the Republic was complacent in viewing them as a threat. In the OT, the Empire was truly an evil, almost omnipresent, force that posed a major threat to the Rebellion; with no shortage of compelling antagonists to back up the visual impact of its military might (the Death Star and Star Destroyers) on screen.

For comparison's sake, Tarkin (even as an ancillary character) was seen to be Vader's equal at times, if not his superior at others. Even for the limited role he played, both in Rogue One and ANH, you understood that he was a ruthlessly ambitious man who commanded respect from those around him; and when Tarkin said jump, even Vader was compelled to ask 'how high?'. That kind of power dynamic was attempted in TFA between Hux and Kylo, but ultimately fails as both characters are incompetent followers to a greater puppet master (Snoke) who essentially boil down to a pair of cardboard bad guys that walk around in black and trade thinly veiled threats with one another.

Now I fully understand that the First Order was never intended to be the Empire (at least in name), but as the central antagonists they fail at presenting a major threat to the story of the protagonists. And, for me, that is where much of my dislike for both sequel movies is coming from. The stakes don't feel as high, and there isn't this overarching sense of "if the good guys fail, the galaxy is screwed". Overall, between TFA and TLJ, the story seems to be trending more towards an edgy "boy meets girl"... but with space magic and lasers.

 

[Phil]

The Last Jedi makes the overall point that the Star Wars story doesn't belong to the Skywalkers, or to other important people.

It belongs to those who dare to dream.

By that logic, with Kylo Ren being technically the last Skywalker by blood, unless he turns away from the Dark Side, then the Skywalker Line is pretty much done then. That if a Episode X, XI and XII are made, the Skywalkers may very well not be a focus anymore, going against what Kathleen Kennedy said that these titled movies are to focus on the Skywalkers. Unless I missed something or something drastically changes.

Or unless sometimes things just change.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

By that logic, with Kylo Ren being technically the last Skywalker by blood, unless he turns away from the Dark Side, then the Skywalker Line is pretty much done then. That if a Episode X, XI and XII are made, the Skywalkers may very well not be a focus anymore, going against what Kathleen Kennedy said that these titled movies are to focus on the Skywalkers. Unless I missed something or something drastically changes.

Or unless sometimes things just change.

They're also only really thinking in terms of getting to Episode IX. If they ever wanted to do an Episode X and beyond, then perhaps they won't be about the Skywalkers anymore.

 

[Livgardist]

Hux is still my favorite character. Though nothing in this movie could compete with his massively Hitler-esque speech from the first movie. That was badass.