The Rakghoul Question

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Solaris

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I'm making a new thread because Empress asked us to stop cluttering up the thread pertaining to Padme's character getting infected, but recent changes to the Ravenous plotline need to be brought up and discussed. This is entirely separate from the fate of any individual character, though I won't even pretend that what's happening to Gracie is what brought it to my attention.

okay again Guys- mind you the rakghoul plague has been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years- if it were so readily purgable, curable it would have been perhaps even before the time of revan, Im sure the greatest healers in any sect of the force have tried. else it would not have been views as a major " OMFG!" issue from the days of the old sith empire, all the way to cade.

this was really well looked into even before the event went live with.


a to mention vaccine prevents one from getting - not cures once had and in the case with rakghoul vaccines only work so long before the virus mutates beyond it.

That said the " vaccine cure" in Tor was purely a game mechanic for those who did not wish to participate in the event ( basically in Tor when you caught it you got " infected status" which came with a stat drop, followed about 15 minutes later by feverish which was stage two and you looked nasty:

screenshot2012041523092.jpg

if you were killed while feverish you " popped" and spewed goo all over and infected other players...if not you popped and died in stage three and again spewed goo all over and infected anyone around you- People were going onto the republic and imperial stations, or into warzones ( and other planets ) and bursting all over people and that was made specifically for the event as a " opt out" the fact you "poped" and not actually mutate, and spread the virus in a way not supported by even the established story of Tor basically makes it moot.


the serum from Kotor also never was distributed, Malak wiped out teris before it was fully ready and distributed... however the republic 300 some years later started to colonize terris again, and the republic players are asked to hunt down the remains of it in the old hospital, to which it wouldn't work, the virus had mutated., so they use the player as a host to the old vaccine, to then try and get infected by the new strain, so they can make an updated version- and they believed it may have worked ( because it would be a dumb quest if it didnt)

as it turns out however the empire came and pushed to " finish" wiping out teris aaaaaaaand the new serum is again lost and destroyed before it could be fully prepared and distributed


also on the dark transfer:

" Krayt revealed to Cade that he also learned how to control the Dark transfer from Cade, Darth Andeddu, and Karness Muur, and used it to resurrect himself after his murder by Darth Wyyrlok. He used it to simultaneously kill and revive Cade Skywalker to sway him to the dark side, but Cade resisted and used the opportunity to finally defeat Krayt.[4]" ​



But again , lets leave this to those directly involved.

What you've established, then, is that this cure is actually really easy to develop - being that the Rakghoul plague was purged from the galaxy until at-around 137 ABY, where the return of the Muur Talisman saw a bunch of new rakghouls formed on Had Abbadon. The cure was developed twice, using a different mechanic both times, and the original cure was demonstrated to be fairly adaptable despite the virus's mutations.

Oh, I missed that part about Dark Transfer. Ah, well. It seemed like a cool power and not Telekinetic Killmaimery Variant #5235.

The problem with there being no cure gets deeper than that. As I alluded to previously, the disease is now in the hands of players. It is currently the only weapon in players' hands to which there is neither a defense nor a counter. This flies in the face of the forum rules, and places the 'good guys' at a huge disadvantage because they wouldn't stoop to using such a weapon - meanwhile, the 'bad guys' are already doing just that. They don't even need to fight anymore, just plague-bomb every world that resists and then sterilize it once the shooting stops.

Even in the individual scale, the disease is a killer. Not even with how it was used on Maier, but in regular fights, assassinations, even regular RPs you can guarantee another person is killed without a hope of defense. All they have to do is scratch you once with an infected weapon.
Or shoot you with an infected bullet.
Or prick you with an infected needle.

To say nothing of a Sith sorcerer getting the bright idea to try re-creating the plague. After all, what was done once can be done twice.

The fact that it is guaranteed one hundred percent fatal, has no cure, and has no defense is not only game-breaking but also kills what little story potential there is for a disease outbreak. The risk of death is enormous if you get involved personally, while there is no possibility of resolving the storyline outside of simply sterilizing the infected locations - preferably from orbit.
 

Lupe

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I only have question for Adena. Is there a vaccine for the plague? Not a cure, but a vaccine.
 

Empress

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I only have question for Adena. Is there a vaccine for the plague? Not a cure, but a vaccine.

there IS a current vaccine, several actually developed by the Chiss, as well as another developed by the Alliance, and I believe Fyston made a retro virus " which basically will purge trouble areas really"
 

Mr. Teatime

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I agree with Solaris, and I've pointed out a few times how silly it is. Especially because one of the main forum rules is there MUST be a chance to defend or counter, and specifically uses a missile barrage as an example as no-no. This disease being able to be used by and against PCs is ridiculous.
 

Nightmare Moon

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I agree with Solaris, and I've pointed out a few times how silly it is. Especially because one of the main forum rules is there MUST be a chance to defend or counter, and specifically uses a missile barrage as an example as no-no. This disease being able to be used by and against PCs is ridiculous.

I'm with Arc on this one. It's basically a super weapon potentially more powerful than any death star. I would love to do a slayer mission against Rakghouls but in it's current form I doubt anyone wants to go anywhere near the damn thing.

The only thing it is good for at the moment is a plot point and a terrible one as it screws up all characters involved in it.
 

Empress

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to which I will say: that was the event of a special event, something a player/faction did NOT have full mastery over and had to deal with risks when they got involved - an o crap we have to deal with this now" sort of thing. it was " an act of nature" well okay a freak accident

There are and have been vaccines now, that is what the first part was all about, going into dangerous situations with uncertain outcomes to get the samples needed to begin the vaccine process...

every faction has access to said vaccines ... so from here on out the success of an infection is back to where is normally is. it being back into the normal rules of use as before the event.
 
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Black Noise

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Was Maier ICly vaccinated and/or did the GA make a thread to note of required vaccination?
 

Solaris

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to which I will say: that was the event of a special event, something a player/faction did NOT have full mastery over and had to deal with risks when they got involved - an o crap we have to deal with this now" sort of thing. it was " an act of nature" well okay a freak accident

Which is why I did not bring this up during the event, instead simply staying out of it. I'd trusted the Admin not to be targeting characters who were not involved with the storyline.

There are and have been vaccines now, that is what the first part was all about, going into dangerous situations with uncertain outcomes to get the samples needed to begin the vaccine process...

every faction has access to said vaccines ... so from here on out the success of an infection is back to where is normally is. it being back into the normal rules of use as before the event.

It would then be reasonable to assume these vaccines have been distributed, no?

Was Maier ICly vaccinated and/or did the GA make a thread to note of required vaccination?

Go back to your own topic with that discussion. This is about the Rakghoul plague in general, not about your character infecting another with it. It's starting to look like you have an axe to grind.
 

Padmé

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I agree with Solaris, and I've pointed out a few times how silly it is. Especially because one of the main forum rules is there MUST be a chance to defend or counter, and specifically uses a missile barrage as an example as no-no. This disease being able to be used by and against PCs is ridiculous.

This.


to which I will say: that was the event of a special event, something a player/faction did NOT have full mastery over and had to deal with risks when they got involved - an o crap we have to deal with this now" sort of thing. it was " an act of nature" well okay a freak accident

There are and have been vaccines now, that is what the first part was all about, going into dangerous situations with uncertain outcomes to get the samples needed to begin the vaccine process...

every faction has access to said vaccines ... so from here on out the success of an infection is back to where is normally is. it being back into the normal rules of use as before the event.


Either way should this happen to a non force sensitive they would be screwed. The idea of leaving a PC defenseless/unable to counter an attack is not only against the forum rules, but cheap, and it leads to erosion of morale.
 

Black Noise

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Either way should this happen to a non force sensitive they would be screwed. The idea of leaving a PC defenseless/unable to counter an attack is not only against the forum rules, but cheap, and it leads to erosion of morale.

Yet it was allowed to happen, in fact, encouraged to happen. However, only now as it affects PCs who didn't want to be involved from the actions of PCs forced to deal with it do we address it as a problem.

EDIT: I heavily disliked the Rakghoul plague when it happened, why? Because I was FL of the HARDEST hit faction, and the faction possibly least equipped to deal with it. So in that regard, I have an axe to grind. Yet now, after all I went through to get this virus taken care of for the Ascendancy, people bring this up finally as something 'demoralizing.' When before, Arc was the only one to stand up and say 'this is BS.' I should've supported arc then.
 
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Padmé

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Yet it was allowed to happen, in fact, encouraged to happen. However, only now as it affects PCs who didn't want to be involved from the actions of PCs forced to deal with it do we address it as a problem.

Exactly. Standing forum rule of PCs being able to defend themselves has no bearing...
 

Stacker01

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Yet it was allowed to happen, in fact, encouraged to happen. However, only now as it affects PCs who didn't want to be involved from the actions of PCs forced to deal with it do we address it as a problem.
It was also underhanded, the player wasn't notified till it already happened, and somehow I doubt it was ever designed to be a super WMD for anyone's personal use in some stupid vendeta or whatever brought this on.

EDIT: I heavily disliked the Rakghoul plague when it happened, why? Because I was FL of the HARDEST hit faction, and the faction possibly least equipped to deal with it. So in that regard, I have an axe to grind. Yet now, after all I went through to get this virus taken care of for the Ascendancy, people bring this up finally as something 'demoralizing.' When before, Arc was the only one to stand up and say 'this is BS.' I should've supported arc then.

I read the Ravenous Event yesterday and turns out it was optional. FLs may have gotten the short end of the straw, but the event was an optional participation event. I believe someone pulled a "you can't force someone into a situation where their fate is forcibly decided by someone else" recently, particularly against your character, BN, and yet it is perfectly fine for you to not only force fate upon another character depending on whether they respond, but force it on them no matter what.

I personally think the Omni Vivunt thread should be struck out. It's 100% BS, what happened. You don't get to force anything upon anyone ICly and that's exactly what you did - without properly discussing it with Padme prior to doing it. The entire thread should be null and void because of all these reasons.
 

Mars

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Let's not forget the Jedi in capture was a prisoner and BN could've just shot her in the face instead of this far more interesting death.
 

Black Noise

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It was also underhanded, the player wasn't notified till it already happened, and somehow I doubt it was ever designed to be a super WMD for anyone's personal use in some stupid vendeta or whatever brought this on.

I read the Ravenous Event yesterday and turns out it was optional. FLs may have gotten the short end of the straw, but the event was an optional participation event. I believe someone pulled a "you can't force someone into a situation where their fate is forcibly decided by someone else" recently, particularly against your character, BN, and yet it is perfectly fine for you to not only force fate upon another character depending on whether they respond, but force it on them no matter what.

I personally think the Omni Vivunt thread should be struck out. It's 100% BS, what happened. You don't get to force anything upon anyone ICly and that's exactly what you did - without properly discussing it with Padme prior to doing it. The entire thread should be null and void because of all these reasons.

But it's ok for other people do this, yes? Because Weiss has space jettisoned numerous characters without informing them beforehand of his plan to kill them, but because your body being turned inside out by space is somehow more realistic than a virus, correct?

As Adena stated a multitude of times, sure it was 'optional' but it was not going to go away till FLs dragged people in and fixed the problem. Entire FACTIONS got the short end of the straw as world after world was infected. The Sith WMD purged their own world to stop the virus, and that was somehow allowed though it's specifically stated to not be.

There is no rule that I must tell Padme I intend to kill her character, which I'll be damned if she didn't already fully know and expect it from me. If she was vaccinated beforehand, she'll live, if you'd like to continue this specific argument about that thread, go to the OOC for it.
 

Solaris

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Yet it was allowed to happen, in fact, encouraged to happen. However, only now as it affects PCs who didn't want to be involved from the actions of PCs forced to deal with it do we address it as a problem.

Like I said before, you don't want to get into this discussion.
In this case, because it's off-topic and not at all germane to the conversation regarding the Rakghoul plague and the Rakghoul plague only. Your decisions and their consequences for other players are tangential at best. If you wish to continue discussing your character's actions, then by all means take it back to the OOC thread for the RP where he performed those actions.

EDIT: I heavily disliked the Rakghoul plague when it happened, why? Because I was FL of the HARDEST hit faction, and the faction possibly least equipped to deal with it. So in that regard, I have an axe to grind. Yet now, after all I went through to get this virus taken care of for the Ascendancy, people bring this up finally as something 'demoralizing.' When before, Arc was the only one to stand up and say 'this is BS.' I should've supported arc then.

And by 'people' you mean 'Solaris'.
That's because, as I said before, when it happened as part of the site event it was operating under the sole jurisdiction of the Admin. Being that I was at the time pretty much completely uninvolved with faction-level stuff and avoided that storyline like, well, the plague, I did not get involved. Because of your actions, however, I realized that there was indeed a larger problem after the storyline's completion that still needed to be addressed. That problem being that in the hands of players, it's an unstoppable weapon.
 
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Padmé

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Yes, let's take all Omi related thread stuff to that thread. Found [url='http://www.thestarwarsrp.com/forum/showthread.php?45718-ASK-Omnes-Vivunt-Omnes-Moriuntur-%28OOC%29"]here[/url].
 

Black Noise

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Like I said before, you don't want to get into this discussion.
In this case, because it's off-topic and not at all germane to the conversation regarding the Rakghoul plague and the Rakghoul plague only. Your decisions and their consequences for other players are tangential at best. If you wish to continue discussing your character's actions, then by all means take it back to the OOC thread for the RP where he performed those actions.

And by 'people' you mean 'Solaris'.
That's because, as I said before, when it happened as part of the site event it was operating under the sole jurisdiction of the Admin. Being that I was at the time pretty much completely uninvolved with faction-level stuff and avoided that storyline like, well, the plague, I did not get involved. Because of your actions, however, I realized that there was indeed a larger problem after the storyline's completion that still needed to be addressed.

That statement was directly referencing to the Rakghoul Plague and Ravinous even of this timeline, not to specific problems occurring elsewhere. I'm saying that, only now, are others objecting to something the Admins encouraged and enforced before.

By people, I mean everyone involved in this, I'm not targeting you Solaris for objecting to the Plague.
 

Solaris

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Yes, because now it's out of the Admin's hands and in the hands of the players. If you didn't like it when Ravenous started, you were free to raise objection then just like I'm doing now.
Where's the confusion in this?

Re: Vaccine.
Does it work like rabies, in that it's effective if injected during the incubation period, or do you have to have it before infection? If you need it before infection, then it's still a super-weapon - just not one that can affect certain people (or anyone, if it's widespread and everyone's assumed to have it whether they got it in a thread or not).
 

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Ravenous may have been optional, to which i agree, the players who got messed up in Ravenous knew the risks, also, that was comparatively early in the scope of things. The Virus was a surprise. But now it's not. And PC's are using it for their own gain. Which easily has the potential to become more than a freak accident or event. I agree with solaris on what's to stop people from coating their blades in Rakghoul plague or making rakghoul grenades or virus bombs? There's nothing really IC'ly stopping it, and they're at the point of tech with the disease where it is very, very possible.

And Weiss' methods are questionable at best BN. Though they are legitimate, they can be underhanded on the highest level. I know it, and all of those people do. There is a line, and it can be crossed. Weiss always put up the "if you think your character can survive in the vaccum of space, feel free to tell me how." and not. "you have to die period."
 

Solaris

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Here's the problem with underhanded tricks, tactics, and techniques: This is not a war. It's a game. The objective is not and should not be victory at any cost, it should be writing an interesting story. If you're interested in curbstomping your opponents, then go play an RTS. Believe you me, if that were what I was hot for and if I thought this site had a place for such things, I could show y'all a thing or two about fighting dirty.

Y'know, until suddenly I couldn't get an RP going, because nobody would want to play with me except my allies.

Oh, hey, wouldja look at that! Certain players can't get RPs going with anyone but their allied players because everyone suspects trickery! Imagine how that happened.
 
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