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[Loco]

We all keep saying "I feel" a lot. It's making me uncomfortable. What are these feelings things?

 

[Eccles]

We all keep saying "I feel" a lot. It's making me uncomfortable. What are these feelings things?

I feel you, bro.

 

[Taz]

If the TT was picked based on Bac's friends, you'd likely be seeing an entirely different lineup.

Brandon has friends ? I always that the Admins were a lot like the mob. Everyone kissed the ring and then thinks of at least six ways to kill or overthrow the boss.

 

[Sreeya]

I'm a little short on time, but I'll try to contribute a bit with a few quick examples. Admittedly, these are low hanging fruit and somewhat recent stuff, but like Pheonix said- I don't exactly keep a log book.

On the Ruusan/Serapin note, something that I heard said at one point when some of us were discussing what to many seemed like a frankly bizarre ruling was "If that was Ral vs Prudence instead of Ral vs Sreeya, the battle would have gone to Ral". I don't know that that's a true statement and I don't remember who said it, but I do remember the context we were discussing it in: Ral is a generally neutral party, he's pretty well liked by most who interact with him, and he's a relatively recent community member compared to some of us. Sreeya is a long time active member, despite recent absences, she's former staff, and she's generally liked/feared among the masses. Prudence, in contrast to both, has a sort of shakey reputation (sorry bruh).

So here we have what in many peoples mind was a pretty clear cut thing- the venue on Ruusan's a totally canon location, it was described well enough in the opening post (which was not challenged) and the map being used was readily available for anyone and their mom to see on the Wookie. Neither combatant really had the upper hand in the fight, but Ral had made a beeline for his objective rather than the fight, which was the smart move given the matchup. So then we get what seems to many to be a curveball ruling. It's hard not to look at it, given the history of the players involved, like the Admins had a close call but Sree's argument was favored due to community standing and history rather than merit. Because to many of us it was like saying you didn't know the armaments of the canon ship you were fighting so it's not fair that it used its guns against you. Is it hard to imagine that if Prudence if he were in Sree's position and had thrown a KES style fit over it, would have had his argument viewed in a different light? We've seen Prudii take some really weird hits in siutations that he clearly seemed to have the upper hand in every possible sense, and I have a hard time seeing him having won that battle making Sree's argument.

In this situation I think it would have been avoided or at least the perception of favoritism lessened if there was coherent and transparent explanation of how and why the ruling was made, and if it was given publicly, rather than behind closed doors.

I'm glad you said this, because it allows me to bring up a couple of points.

1. Where was the comment "if it was Prudii vs. Ral instead" made? It was made behind closed doors, because I certainly didn't see it. Right away, you have negative ideas flowing between a group of people in private. I can turn this around to say that if it had been anyone else BUT me, and you didn't like the ruling, you all wouldn't have thrown as much of a fuss. Is there merit to this argument? Who knows, but it IS a perspective to consider. As someone that's on the end of this, it seriously looks like the Ruusan thing was pursued extra hard because I was involved. If, say @Black Noise were fighting Ral, I think you guys would've been pissed, but would've shrugged it off instead of saying it was bias. But because it's me, the idea of bias is the immediate go-to instead of even CONSIDERING the possibility that it was just a ruling you don't agree with and leaving it at that. Again, may not be true, but that's what it looks like from the outside.

2. Second, back to the comment "if it was prudii". Once again, where did this discussion take place? Was it on the forums? Was it in public? Where was this exchange weighing about how unfair this ruling was? Anyone was free to open up an OOC, including Ral. Yet the blame is on me and/or the admins for not doing so. Ral was just as involved in this as I was, yet no one told him to open up an OOC to follow if everyone felt that strongly about it. Instead, it was discussed behind closed doors and everyone agreed that this was bias and that's the end of it. Sounds very similar to what you are accusing admins of doing, right? These are the players off the top of my head that I see complaining about Ruusan: You, Phoenix, Prudii, Grim. All of you either have Mando characters or have stated you would like to play one (I actually fact checked this before posting this). So how does that come across from the outside? Hivemind, right? It seems like the Mando players talk and complain about things in a Skype group chat, draw a conclusion and argue it till the end of time despite what anyone says. ONCE AGAIN, not saying this is fact, but that's exactly what it looks like. If you want to clean up the Mando image, discussing everything behind closed doors and then bringing out the pitchforks in public together certainly won't help. You had called me out on being hypocritical for misjudging your tone. You were right about that. Now I'm calling out in perpetuating the Mandalorian group think stereotype. I'm not looking for a counter argument here, I'm simply showing you how it may come across to someone that's not part of the group.

Ral himself told me that people had been telling him that fighting me was a bad idea, etc. With that sort of energy around him, why would anyone be motivated to have a fun fight? I get the feeling he was in a group chat with people tossing ideas on what to do the entire fight, because the perception I had of him was of someone that'd be fair to work with one on one. I would have gotten that opportunity if he didn't have everyone telling him all sorts of junk. Again, this is only my guess, but that's how it's been portrayed to me. This is what I mean, @Loco "Neither combatant really had the upper hand in the fight, but Ral had made a beeline for his objective rather than the fight, which was the smart move given the matchup. " What do you mean 'given the matchup'? What did you think I'd do? Fart out random h4x saber moves? Lol.

3. I think everyone here is ignoring the fact that the map issue was only part of the problem. Ral wouldn't have auto won the fight even if the map issue didn't happen. I was forcing him into a one on one combat scenario that involved my char not being able to rely on the Force anymore, and his with his armor and all his weapons on. Furthermore, Ral had made up a lot of what was going on in the fight. For example, conveniently landing on the spire he needed to with a faulty jetpack? Fine. Then he said I happened to shoot a window below him that led directly to a compound. Why would I hit a window when I was aiming for him? Secondly, where on the map does it say there's a window there? If that was allowed, I would've said the entire base was boobytrapped and rigged with explosives that would've gone off the moment he stepped forward. This is completely realistic since this was a way down towards the compound that nobody would've wanted people to enter. If Ral was allowed to invent those scenarios, then I could've too. But if that were allowed, I'd have dealt with the same whining about BIAS!! None of you want to acknowledge the fact that there was a lot more to the fight than the map issue. We both messed up. Ral and I, with the way we wrote, were too far from the actual base to make any sort of impact. That was faulty writing from both of us. And it's impossible to tell how the fight would've turned out. Yet you guys are completely fixated on this map crap and are convinced Ral can do no wrong and would've auto-won if not for this. Very, very not true. I don't think Ral himself would've wanted a bullshit win anyway. If I had my say, I would've called this a draw since I don't think Red did a particularly good job of leaving the base unharmed. If I had it my way, I would've said Ral can't just magically leave since his jetpack was useless and he never got past Red. But I know better than to come in here with my group of Sith friends and come in with a made up mind without any possibility of entertaining a different idea.

Anyway, once again, I didn't say any of this to start an argument. I do believe that @Saul is right in us having to look at ourselves. We're all (yes I count myself too) very quick to jump on each other and I think it's time to cut back and understand everything that's going on. For example, I definitely wanna play a Mandalorian next timeline, but would any of you welcome me or just associate me with admin bias? Lol. It's stuff like that that worries me because a lot of these rp disputes carry too much into ooc relations sometimes.

 

[TAC]

Hey, there conversation might need to happen, but can you take your own suggestion and hash this out in a different thread?

I'm interested to hear what other people have to say about the admins. And what the admins have to say about it.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Regarding the think tank members, I have to say - we were generally unimpressed with a lot of the applications. There were a lot that we thought didn't bring any clear ideas to the table. Some were good, but too narrow in focus (like clearly preferring one faction over all factions). Some were rushed. Some clearly didn't have a lot of thought put into them.

So while I would have liked to have had newer people in the think tank too, we also based the process around applications. That means a worthy application had to be written. If there wasn't a worthy application, unfortunately you weren't considered.

Which, again, goes back to how looks can be deceiving. Perceptions aren't always accurate, and sometimes you're missing context. In this case, the context is a generally unimpressive group of applications. It wasn't about favoritism. Do you really think I'd hype up having a diverse group of people and then just choose my friends (and I should note that, with a few exceptions, I don't really know these guys all that well)? Do you realize how dumb and tone deaf that would make me?

Now that I've said that, if you are someone who applied and would like feedback on your application so you can improve, please feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to give you that feedback.

 

[Loco]

@Sreeya

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on much of that, but I was repeatedly asked for examples, and that was one. For the record, the issue at hand here is pretty much entirely in regards to admin rulings/treatment - I don't think any of us is holding weird OOC grudges against individuals. Me and Outlander are cool now, we've let Prudii into the lot, and we often work with people we've otherwise had negative encounters with. If you want to have a mando, we'd happily have you come CRRRUUUUSSSSSAAAADDEEE with us :D

I do think it's fair to admit that you do have a reputation as a power gamer. Your title IS "PvP Queen". Same way BN and Appolyon and Wit have that "roflstomp your characters" reputation and Bolive has a reputation as a dick. Deserved or not, I dunno, and much of it may stem from old empire things or Andraste stuff, but that's the reputation. These things build up over time for reasons.


On another mote, it's looking more and more like most of these perception issues stem from either bad rulings or just a general lack of explanation or transparency in the ruling process. A "Book of Judgements" thread for for admin rulings would be hugely beneficial here. Admins can say "we looked at a, b, and c, compared it to x, y, and z, and came to conclusion #Frank4Admin". It sets clear precedents and alleviates many people's concerns.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The problem with the "These things build up over time for reasons" argument, which is a true argument don't get me wrong, is that those reasons are sometimes wrong. Or they stem from something benign. Sreeya is really good at PvP. Somehow that's turned into 'Sreeya is a powergamer' or 'Sreeya is cheap' or 'all Sreeya wants to do is win.' Likewise, as we saw in the 'Role of the Mandalorians' thread, playing a Mandalorian means some people are going to paint you with a really negative brush based on what other people have done. On the admin front, 'Boli can be very blunt by cutting through nonsense in his rulings' becomes 'Boli is a dick.'

So there may be a hint of truth in all of these perceptions, but I think it's important to acknowledge that virtually all of them are blown totally out of proportion.

 

[Eccles]

I definitely wanna play a Mandalorian next timeline, but would any of you welcome me or just associate me with admin bias?

I'll be a first-time mando next timeline. #rpwithmeplox #nobias #needaPvPQueentosupportme

This is my second post here without feedback, but I honestly believe all "bad things" can be resolved if y'all keep airing the dirty laundry and hug afterwards. Don't forget to hug, though.

 

[Apollyon]

Hi!
So first off I would like to state that the admins here are 10/10 and I love most if not all of them.

Secondly, I would like to address the issue of power playing. From what I read in the Sree v Ral thread, Sree wasn't the one power playing. Ral took control of how the map was, ignored his opponent almost entirely, and looked to crush the thread asap. This is the model for a power play, in my opinion this is what he did.

For further evidence look to the Reckoning, which I believe I was told that he wrote Lutomi's posts for her or at least gave her the base ideas for. All of which were asked to be rewritten due to power playing. And before I am discredited you need to be very aware, I haven't ACTUALLY pvped since the Reckoning and haven't actually killed a character in like 2 years.

This roflstomp mentality is because people confuse me for my character. I am usually quite pleasant in ooc, as most people will tell you.

TL;DR: Sree is no power player, don't hide behind the hive mind, understand termnologies before you use them

 

[Marcus]

This thread has turned into a lot of rehashing, which maybe needs to happen, but it is kind of detracting from the thread as a whole, especially for those not involved in some of these issues. Again, maybe they need to be worked out, but it's getting soap opera-ish. *gives a look of fear and confusion as we cut to commercial*

Now then, on the Think Tank applications, you say the pool was not what you were looking for and I kind of take offense to that in a way. I may not be the right candidate and I am fully aware of that, but I would have preferred a response saying "thanks, but we did not select you because X, Y, Z". Hearing that the candidate pool was lacking in a thread like like this is a bit of a kick in the pants. Perhaps I don't need to take it personally - maybe mine was ok, but just not as good as your superstars that were selected. And to be clear, I'm using myself as an example, but anyone who applied could be writing this paragraph.

Admittedly I am not a fan of things like affirmative action - they can go too far too easily if you ask me. However, having some newer folks, even if they had "narrow" focus or what have you, would have been nice. I may have a narrow focus because of my membership longevity and my Star Wars interests, but I am an excellent writer and professional and I would have stretched my mind as needed for the team. I'm sure I'm not alone.

So all this wordiness to say that I agree that the TT perception is a real and valid perception, and one that could have been avoided. I honestly didn't mind too much that I wasn't selected, but the selected ones did seem a bit clique-ish. And then, as I said, hearing in this thread (and not in a feedback PM) that most apps were lackluster is a bit off-putting.

 

[Insoulent]

Sarcastic lol. "Hivemind". It's lit.

translation: this is going to turn into "who can defend their friends better" conversation. and guess who's going to win? the dudes with mod powers.

 

[Dmitri]

And since it seems to have been completely missed, the only admin intervention in the Eighth Battle of Ruusan was addressing the map's legitimacy. The map was ruled ineligible because by not giving both parties this map as it was giving information to one side that gave them an advantage. If memory serves, someone cited inconsistency, in that a map was used at Naboo and allowed. The Naboo map was used because it was supplied to all parties. Now, for me, the reason I had agreed with that decision in the map's ineligibility is due to the fact that it assumes the other side assumes/knows the other side is using a map (which if the other side isn't actually using the map turns the table on disadvantage) and Star Wars maps, especially game maps in particular (not sure if the map was a Game one or not, but explaining for clarity), are very inconsistent. Look at Valley of the Sith and Anchorhead in Kotor vs. TOR. They differ in their layout. Locations are altered to better fit games and shows. The movies and Television series are some of the few examples that due tend to try to be consistent. The map was not the deciding factor.

To reiterate, the Eighth Battle of Ruusan's conclusion was decided by myself and Kyle. It was decided on an FL level. I had pitched my thoughts on the outcome with a proposal for a ruling and inquired with Kyle on his thoughts on the matter. I had proposed a Rebel loss due to Ral not having engaged Sreeya very much had was in less of a prime situation, and the fact that he had focused on more on his objective, which he had failed to complete; furthermore there was some issues with inconsistent distances, which I considered in my thinking, but didn't use it for the full decision. The objective was one of the key aspects I looked. Had the objective been the destruction of the ruins (which while he didn't do, he had carried out some damage), I would have actually leaned towards a Rebel victory. Instead the objective had been "If the Rebel/Cartel Forces are able to seize control of the ruins, there are few other natural obstacles on the planet's surface to keep them from routing the Imperium entirely." I had judged that that objective, which was in Kyle's battle proposal and announcement, had not been accomplished on the rebel side. Now, Ral Aran (the character) could have been ruled a casualty or a prisoner of war; Manaan Rules at this time do not specify what happens to the losing side. I had seen Ral's attempt as a valiant one and had proposed that rather than be killed or captured (which had been something proposed to me by a non-member I had been talking to), I had chosen to instead propose to Kyle he allowed to escape; which he agreed with.

I did not rule on the basis of being an admin. I tried to look on it from the eyes of an FL (which I was for months before becoming an admin). I thought I looked at things logical and fair. I had stressed to use words that did not indicate absoluteness in my proposal for a ruling/outcome, that if Kyle disagreed with my thoughts he could voice them; and I would have listened. In the end, I do agree that better communication should have been done, though by me and Kyle, rather than the admin team. Kyle and I (me especially) could have done a better job communicating this outcome and the reasoning for it; a better job of iterating that the outcome was a byproduct of a decision made between us two, not the admin team. Ral Aran I didn't disfavor because his character is Mandalorian. Sure, I joke about the Mandalorian problem, but I don't take it into actual considerations when I make decisions. If anything, I try to give Mandalorian characters opportunities to prove their stereotype wrong; that I do try to work with Mandalorian players. Sisk I had a good working relationship, and had worked with him and others to finally get the Battle of Reckoning (which had stalled) moving again, and had even proposed the Battle of Zigoola which would have had a lot of significance to his character's personal storyline; Sisk had an opportunity to avenge his wife's death and rescue a Jedi who would become the future Grandmaster, as I saw it as an opportunity to foster future relationships between the Jedi and Mandalorians, that the battle could have paved way for a partnership to fight the Imperium; sure, things didn't ultimately pan out, but I had tried to help build the groundwork. Prudii I have tried to work with, in both working with KES (another group I've sometimes heard as being in admin disfavor) for alliance and even including his Mandalorian in a major conspiracy to try to target the traitor Eris.

 

[Prudence]

and even including his Mandalorian in a major conspiracy to try to target the traitor Eris.

Wait what?

 

[Rom]

Oh Lorde have mercy, this has been an interesting read. I'm going to be doing my admin review in an edit when I can actually sit and type with a keyboard, but I kind of just want to address one while it's topical because it keeps coming up.

I do think it's fair to admit that you do have a reputation as a power gamer. Your title IS "PvP Queen". Same way BN and Appolyon and Wit have that "roflstomp your characters" reputation and Bolive has a reputation as a dick. Deserved or not, I dunno, and much of it may stem from old empire things or Andraste stuff, but that's the reputation. These things build up over time for reasons.

I don't know if we just have different definitions of what a power gamer is, or something else but as someone who has fought against Sreeya several times, power gaming is not her shtick. Does she have a reputation for being devastating in PvP roleplay? Yes. I would in fact say Hell Yes. For non-Naval PvP Sreeya is the best writer I've gone up against. She is fantastic at writing and describing the flow of bodies in combat and she works with what she has.

What she doesn't do is use her Story-enforced OP Sith Empress in PvP against other players, or somehow magically counter everything placed before her with previously unmentioned powers and gadgets. Besides Andraste, which again she doesnt use, all of her characters are fight-able and even beatable if you write and fight cleverly. She earned a reputation for wrecking people in PvP because she has the threads (and the body count) to have that reputation, but she didn't gain that reputation through power gaming.

---------------------------- Edit Line ---------------------

*insert admin reviews and musings about bias, Brandon's conspiracy of world domination, and Boli's favorite green asshat here*

 

[Bee]

Can we get back to the stuff about how Boli's a jerk, I'm awesome, and Brandon is like secret illuminati or something?

 

[Prudence]

Can we get back to the stuff about how Boli's a jerk, I'm awesome, and Brandon is like secret illuminati or something?

Wow. @Bee summed my admin review up in one sentence. (Minus the bits about @GABA yelling at me and @Ben being dead)

 

[Elijah Brockway]

Brandon is like secret illuminati or something?

How many letters are there in Brandon? 7.

What is seven plus three? 10.

What is 10 divided by two? Five.

What is five minus two? Three.

How many letters are there in BAC?

Three.

How many people is Brandon? One.

How many letters are there in Rhea? Four.

What is four minus one?

Three.

Three threes confirmed. Half Life 3 confirmed.

Brandon = illuminati?

Con-fucking-firmed.

 

[Prudence]

How many letters are there in Brandon? 7.

What is seven plus three? 10.

What is 10 divided by two? Five.

What is five minus two? Three.

How many letters are there in BAC?

Three.

How many people is Brandon? One.

How many letters are there in Rhea? Four.

What is four minus one?

Three.

Three threes confirmed. Half Life 3 confirmed.

Brandon = illuminati?

Con-*******-firmed.

I call for a vote of no confidence in @Brandon Rhea due to the fact that it is confirmed he is 100% illuminati.

 

[Elijah Brockway]

I nominate Boli for head admin.