Attack on Anoth: Main Hall OOC

[Wit]

OOC thread for Attack on Anoth: The Main Hall.

As with the other Anoth threads, Jedi go first. Lets have some fun here guys.

 

[Raydo]

Work has been off the chain tonight. I will try to post tonight, but it may be tomorrow.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

Started her off. :)

EDIT: If it's cool with Raydo I'm certainly alright with going a few rounds against you guys until he's able to get a post in.

 

[Raydo]

It calmed down at work and I got my post in.

 

[Wit]

Two 1v1s or 2v2? My preference would be 1v1.

EDIT: And made my post.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

Just let it play out the way it wants to. In real life we wouldn't decide to leave our partners completely, Of course we may spend a lot of time doing one on ones but I don't want you guys to feel like these are two separate battles. It's all one encounter.

 

[Raydo]

Just let it play out the way it wants to. In real life we wouldn't decide to leave our partners completely, Of course we may spend a lot of time doing one on ones but I don't want you guys to feel like these are two separate battles. It's all one encounter.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Aaron Corinth]

Don't know which sith is headed for which jedi but all the cards are in place.

 

[Raydo]

If you guys could let us know which Jedi you are both moving towards specifically that would be awesome.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

I made the scene a little more clear. Hope that works for everyone.

 

[Wit]

Fine by me. So we're starting off with Kronos vs Ze'kyre and Corinth vs Reland and letting things develop from there? You guys want a strict posting order or if a pair is posting faster then just let them go on with it?

EDIT: Post's up.

 

[Loco]

Did you just make a Wizard of Oz reference in a Star Wars RP?

 

[Wit]

Did you just make a Wizard of Oz reference in a Star Wars RP?

Kronos isn't the most mentally sound of people, he thinks its random gibberish.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

Sorry about the wait. I would say for the most part we want to stay in order but of course there may be times when this does not suit us. The real way to tell is to remember that time is a thing even though we're just writing a bunch of words. If we follow the chronology of the fight it will be quite obvious who needs to post next in order to catch up. For instance it strikes me that Raydo and Aaron's fight kicked off a couple of seconds after our own, Wit. We know this because Raydo goes as far as to say that his character saw my own perform a couple of strikes to start off our fight, but as far as our fight has gone now I've still only performed one strike even though I just got another post in. In Pen and Paper RPGs we roll for initiative, but here we write of our character's initiative ourselves instead of leaving it to chance. So I ask that we all be mindful of everything that is going on and when exactly.

So in the name of chronological relevance, I say that even though we should be mindful of the order and not just post randomly because our opponent did, Wit could probably squeeze a post in to bring the events that he and I are depicting up to speed with what you guys have depicted as having occurred.

These are what we know for sure, as far as the timing goes. Speak up if anything here is not the case.

Kronos walks into the hall, Ze'kyre shouts and runs to meet him in the middle of the room. It can be presumed that Damion is hanging out closer to the entrance because you never mention his walking deeper into the Main Hall. Reland follows behind Ze'kyre.

Ze'kyre and Kronos meet in the centre of the room and their blades have (since my last post) clashed once. In that same instant or immediately afterwards Reland passes the two and flings a rock at Damion (I'm assuming with telekinesis). Raydo, even with force enhanced Speed it may still take you a couple of seconds to meet Damion. Even though I just got another post in, a rather long one in comparison to the first page standard, not a whole lot of time passed within my last two posts. There was a little more time passing in Wit's post but much of that was circumstantal and ended up becoming void. Therefore Ze'kyre and Kronos are essentially frozen in time while Reland reaches Damion. (You mention that it may have only been a fraction of a second but I think we have different ideas of the size of the room, and as I said before Damion should still be near the entrance so you'd have to cover the entire Main Hall to reach him)

This is why I think it would be fair for Wit to post before Raydo, by my estimation Ze'kyre and Kronos have a solid three or so seconds of catching up to do. The reason why this is so important is because as I pointed out in earlier posts this is meant to be two versus two. Of course we paired off because thats how team fights typically play out but at some point if Ze'kyre is in deep trouble, I'm going to expect Reland to make an effort to help him, and if one of us ends up getting incapacitated, we want to know exactly at what point this becomes a two on one instead of jumping through time and space and making no real sense.

 

[Aaron Corinth]

I think you make a fair point, Wit should post next then Raydo

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

Hello everyone! I apologize for the delay but I promise to you all it was not without reason. Wit and I have been debating the mechanics of our first moves as posted in the IC thread, and we have come to a cross point with which we are going to need some help deciding what exactly has happened. Without further adieu I'll present the nature of our conflict and all of the relevant points we have made to one another, starting with Wit's initial PM my way. For the record, this is a refined version of the argument, and Wit has been nothing but kind and reasonable throughout this ordeal. I hope he feels the same of my own behaviour :)

If I'm visualising your previous post properly then Ze'kyre's initial strike came when he brought his foot down at the end of his step and swung his lightsaber down in sync with that.1​ Now you didn't mention him using the Force in any way so I'm assuming he's moving unaided, and no matter how fast that would be, Kronos with his Force enhanced movements would be faster.2​ So I'm not sure it makes sense for him to be able to react to his strike. Firstly he was already moving forward, with some speed so to cut that forward momentum and move backwards would not be very simple,3​ and on top of that I think you're underestimating how fast a force-enhanced crusader would move, Kronos quite literally would attack as Ze'kyre's blade was bearing down on his head,*Addressed in my first point* at which point you can't really jump back or avoid it, he'd be too committed to the attack.*Addressed throughout all the points* Plus Kronos himself was moving forwards, I never mentioned him stoping moving towards Ze'kyre, so he's further cutting down the distance between them...4​

1. At the bottom are spoilers where you can read the part of the post being discussed for your own reference. When he asked me if the arm was all coming down from the shoulder as a downward swing I told him that was not the case, and explained to him what constitutes 'whip-like fashion' as far as real life whip-technique goes. The significance of this is that it makes it harder for Kronos to tell when exactly the attack can not be halted, and as Kronos does not act until the attack is committed to, this is certainly a hazardous point in time to begin acting. The mechanic and technique of Ze'kyre's arm means that this 'committed' opening is super small and it may be too late to act at the point that Ze'kyre can not take back the attack, given that the blade has already closed in a great deal and is still moving very fast. This is due to the micro movement of an arm unfurling; it is not a swing.

2. Debatable for a number of reasons, but I will certainly concede that it should make his base reaction time marginally better lower than Ze'kyres. But as I told Wit, speed is not everything in a fight. Technique counts for a whole lot more. But before I get to the technical bits, I will explain why this whole speed/quickness thing is rather debatable with a quote from my first reply to him.

No, he's not using Force Speed, but he is still moving quite fast. He has spent his entire life working to shave those valuable fractions of seconds from his actions. I myself have spent a lot of time writing about his affinity for martial art and use my personal knowledge of the subject to expand on Ze'kyre's ability. That being said, I think its safe to say that Ze'kyre is very, very quick, certainly as quick as they come in real life (you may be surprised to learn how fast some people can throw kick combinations and the like). I'm afraid that I have seen very little in the way of the same sort of dedication from Kronos' character sheet and threads. This is not to say that Kronos must be untrained to any degree, but I do think it will be hard for you to argue Kronos has anywhere near the martial experience and ability Ze'kyre does. But that is fair enough, I don't really have other characters to focus on and so have been giving Ze'kyre my all in order to be able to make that argument right now.

Your character's use of the Force to move faster will certainly help to close the difference and probably even make your character faster than mine depending on how practiced/mastered the power is, but looking over your character sheet and threads I have to say the same about Kronos using Force Speed as Kronos using martial art. Again, this is not to say he is untrained, but I don't think it's fair to say that Kronos is much more than alright at either skill, not without you having had depicted his training or knowledge of such techniques.

I further mention that even if Ze'kyre is not able to overcome the return with his muscle memory and technical preparation, his adrenaline would help him to react and sense the moment with as much or nearly as much of a time slow down, or at least one with as comparable of a ratio to our characters base abilities, to even out our characters perception and reflex ability.

3. I will use another quote from my reply to explain that even though it is not a simple thing to do, Ze'kyre paid heed to all of the miniscule details of being able to halt his momentum. This is shown IC as per the reference 1 spoiler. The actions depicted are quite common in many martial arts across the world, heavily in Asia.

This is a fair assumption [of most attacks made in such a fashion by street-brawlers] but once again you are missing key parts to my post. Here it is important to look over Ze'kyre's form, how much attention is paid to what he does with his hips, feet, core and knees. Those final two steps I depict very precisely describe why Ze'kyre is able to move backwards in such a fashion. No it is not very simple, but I covered all of the advanced details, and I did it from the beginning.

4. Kronos is certainly moving forward but Wit did not describe to what extent. Since he went for an attack then all it is safe to say is that he tried to get close enough to use the tip of the blade. The fact that he waited till the last second means that this also makes the most sense considering the rest of the points I have made. (Many of which Wit and I have come to an agreement on)

So I believe Wit believes we have boiled down this matter to whether or not Ze'kyre or Kronos is moving faster in the instant. I put forth that this is also a matter of using our descriptive language to control the scene. What I mean by this is that when I say "Ze'kyre anticipates his steps to meet Kronos..." is that he's watching his opponent as any martial artist would. The smallest of movements still have tell-tale signs based on muscle tension and Ze'kyre has been trained to see these signs just as any echani would be schooled by the age of five. There is no detailed proof that Kronos would be trained to hide such things. Ze'kyre's anticipation speaks towards his ability to hold a range that I specify at the end of my post. I did this in a way that I knew would allow me to react as I did in my next post, using descriptive language of my characters methodical technique, attention to martial detail, and highly trained muscle memory. As I said earlier, speed is not as important as attention to detail, technique, and timing, and I really do believe that Ze'kyre has Kronos beat by spades in these departments, and that any marginal increase he gets over Ze'kyre is beat by Ze'kyre preparation and anticipation.

Of course, I think that Wit is awesome for the way he is handling this. It can be hard to find people who can stand intense moments like this between characters and not make it a grudge between players. I want to say that no matter what happens with this I appreciate that and hope that we can continue to view each other in the friendly nature we have been handling this matter with so far.

:)

Spoiler: Reference to the last paragraph of IC post #6: Ze'kyre's initial attack.

[Ze'kyre's] eyes locked onto the darksiders own as he prepared his steps and picked up speed. Pivoting on his left toe, he brought his right knee up and let his entire centre of gravity fall down upon the strike. With his core tight and his hips open wide, he allowed the pivot to turn him completely sideways as his foot landed on the ground before him with a thunderous thud, the tip of his blade lined up to cut into Kronos' skull right between his eyes on it's downward arc. The white warrior's elbow was straight and it unfurled in whip-like fashion, his gravity centred despite the lunge-like distance of his step and the power of the downward blow.

EDIT: Corrected a couple of small things that were messy.

 

[Wit]

Sorry for the late reply, was not really in a condition to post last night. Zen listed most things out I think. I have a throbbing head so might have missed something but the way I saw it was that Kronos would make his attack at the moment when Ze'kyre had committed to the stroke, and due to the force speed enhancing his movements I think that he would be able to time it so that Ze'kyre would be unable to change his attack, which involved cutting his momentum (from having been running forward towards Kronos) and suddenly move backwards. So I suppose it is that, who would be faster. Kronos with his movements enhanced by the Force or Ze'kyre with his physical training.

And yes, Zen and I have been having a very civil conversation about this over PMs and its come to a simple difference in opinions, I believe the effects of the Force have that punch to make Kronos the faster of the two whereas Zen puts more stock by physical training. Instead of fighting over which view is right we just want some outside feedback on this and whichever way the verdict goes I think I can say it for the both of us that we'll happily roll with it and continue with the thread. :)

 

[Wit]

Sorry for the double post but something was pointed out to me that I think I should add.

There's a canonical example where Luke uses Force Speed to fight the human replica droid Guri. This was possibly one of the first instances of him using Force speed but still it allowed him to defeat Guri. The scene in question is actually identical to our situation, Guri is about to strike Luke when he uses the Force and this happens:

He had to trust the Force completely-Guri slowed, as if she were suddenly mired in thickened time. He saw her hand descending, saw it moving to smash him, but it was so incredibly slow, why, he could easily just roll aside and stand, before she ever reached him....

He then proceeds to easily defeat Guri. This was before RotJ, so his skills were those of a brand new knight. Now if at that level he can defeat a human replica droid with advanced combat training to be an assassin, Kronos, who has been a Crusader for over a decade, should be much faster than Ze'kyre. I don't think Ze'kyre would be faster than an assassin droid, regardless of how proficient a martial artist he might be.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

It is fair that you brought that up but it is not so much to say that this is completely analogous. I do not have the novel myself so I can not provide you with the relative context, but unless you can a lot of the argument is circumstantial.

It is unfair to say that Luke only had the power of a Knight/Crusader. At this point in time there was little in the way of Jedi and if we consider the precedent set by the rule of two it is only fair to say that Luke was one of the most powerful Force Adepts in the known universe, and one of the most powerful Jedi that we've ever heard of, despite freshly being a Knight. Other questions that I am unable to answer are these:

Was he in the heat of battle already? Was he adrenaline filled some other way? Was he badly beat up and relying on the power of desperation? Do you really know that this was one of his first time uses?

Another point I'd like to make is that you are still failing to describe when your character acts. Saying that you act in the space of time that the motion is committed to is a bit of a cop-out, and not one that is easy to use against a martial artist like Ze'kyre. As I've explained before the entire movement is performed as a series of small moves that are committed to. So is Kronos acting when Ze'kyre takes the last step, stomps his foot on the ground and points his elbow, unfurls his elbow, or allows the unfurling to travel down to his wrist? The only point the attack is not able to be halted is at this very last point I describe, which I deliberately left undepicted to allow me the freedom to stop it should I need to. Granted that you say Kronos will act at the last second I'm guessing it is at the point when all but his wrist has to move. Even with Force Speed I don't necessarily believe this is a lot of time. In fact I believe that the wrist-snap of this motion could be completed multiple times over before your lightsaber is fully ignited.

Is an assassin droid faster even that your typical echani? I think its all a matter of the hard-ware and software of both.

As I said earlier combat in all forms is not just a matter of speed, but more importantly timing. I paid very close attention to this particular detail and articulated how Ze'kyre was doing the same.

EDIT: I'm also struck with the idea that the full effect of Force Speed should be ramped up to. In your response you say that Kronos activates Force Speed when Ze'kyre bears down at him. This seems as though it must be the last possible second, right before he acts. But alas, if that is not the case then I am thinking perhaps I will edit my post for the sake of moving along. I'll let you guys know through here if I do.

 

[Wit]

He reacts at the last possible moment, he's already started using the Force before that. Either way, I've asked the admins to take a look at this to clear it all up, no need to edit, they'll let us know what needs to be done.

EDIT: Luke might have been a very strong Force user but I think this was one of the the first instances of him using Force Speed. Kronos might not be as strong asa Luke in the Force but he is more experienced so he should be able to get similar results.

Another point I'd like to make is that you are still failing to describe when your character acts. Saying that you act in the space of time that the motion is committed to is a bit of a cop-out, and not one that is easy to use against a martial artist like Ze'kyre. As I've explained before the entire movement is performed as a series of small moves that are committed to. So is Kronos acting when Ze'kyre takes the last step, stomps his foot on the ground and points his elbow, unfurls his elbow, or allows the unfurling to travel down to his wrist? The only point the attack is not able to be halted is at this very last point I describe, which I deliberately left undepicted to allow me the freedom to stop it should I need to. Granted that you say Kronos will act at the last second I'm guessing it is at the point when all but his wrist has to move. Even with Force Speed I don't necessarily believe this is a lot of time. In fact I believe that the wrist-snap of this motion could be completed multiple times over before your lightsaber is fully ignited.

As I mention in one of my PMs, the description that you were going to unfurl the elbows is not very clear, you use the term "straight elbow" and that creates the image of him bringing his arm down with the elbows not bent but straight. But that's alright, when you described it to me I understood what you were going for. So even if his arm is bent at the elbow, Force speed would allow him to strike him as he is un-furling his elbow and the excerpt shows that Force Speed is indeed that potent. Unfortunately there is no mention of a wrist snap in your post, so not gonna comment on that.

Is an assassin droid faster even that your typical echani? I think its all a matter of the hard-ware and software of both.

This was Guri, she was quiet literally the most sophisticated human replica droid ever built, her skills and speed were such that she was going to kill Luke before he used force speed to turn the tables on her. But come one dude, this is Star Wars, the Force is like magic, I'm going to stick by what I've being saying from the start, Force > Physical Abilities.