Attack on Anoth: Main Hall OOC

[Wit]

For clarity, this was my last PM, "Wait, so when he was coming towards Kronos they were facing each other. But when he attacked he turned sideways so that his body is now perpendicular to Kronos with his right side closer to him and the left pointing away from him?" While I get how you're positioned, its still not clear how the second stamp came down and how it would have enough power to break bones. I went as read all our posts in the IC thread last night and I actually and as I was still confused I was in the process of sending a new message your what when Sreeya posted here.

And this here was what I had typed up before she posted:

As Ze'kyre's foot slammed upon the ground the densely corded muscles in his calf erupted and the weight of his knee was catapulted over the ball of his foot. <-- First stamp done here, this was the one from the previous post right?

Having kept his gravity evenly centred, it was buoyant and now his heel came down right where Kronos' left foot was landing with enough Force to break a couple of the small bones in the top of the foot. <-- Its not very clear what he's doing here, all it says is that now the heel came down on Kronos' foot, but when did it go up and move towards his foot? You mentioned in the previous messages that he brought the same foot down again, moving it forward to cover the distance between where it landed and where Kronos' foot had landed. The problem I'm seeing here is that the initial stamp was stated to be one with some force behind it as he let his entire centre of gravity fall down with it. After that you bring your foot up and bring it down again to try and crush his foot, the would give him enough time to react in some way. Or if it were just a shuffle forwards then it would not have the force needed to do any serious damage.

Also, could you help me visualise this part a little better:

He did nothing to stop the whip-like blow he had begun, but something that an arm could provide that a whip could not was a great deal of rotational tension. And so by suddenly tensing this group of muscles, as well as tempering the movements with his bicep, Ze'kyre was able to bring the base of his blade right by his face as it continued on its rolling arc out toward the Sith. For one flash framed instant, the light of the blade covered the echani's fair skinned face with a swatch of saphire, the blue reflecting strongly in his silver hair and eye as he glared up into the soul of his opponent. Another likened instant and both blades would be found near parallel, almost touching one another but for the fact that Kronos' was moving upwards and outwards, and Ze'kyre's was moving in a now horizontal arc that would separate the Sith at the waist.

"With this new axis it would come to pass that the blue blade of Ze'kyre's lightsaber and the crimson of Kronos' own would meet, the blue on its downward arc, and the red swinging up in a failed attempt to lop off the white warrior's arm - were it not for the added tension provided to alter the course of his lash-like blow." <--The blades clashed at the end of your post's previous paragraph, so what exactly is going on here? Instead of how his muscles move and such could you explain in terms of how his arm is lined up as he strikes and then how it moves as he executes this follow up?

Particularly this line: "And so by suddenly tensing this group of muscles, as well as tempering the movements with his bicep, Ze'kyre was able to bring the base of his blade right by his face as it continued on its rolling arc out toward the Sith."

You were bringing the blade down in a vertical strike, I

Now I'm going to read your post, I just posted all this here to let it be known that I do share Sreeya's concerns.

 

[Sreeya]

Hey Sreeya, I'm glad that you have decided to follow this and help us keep it running smoothly :) But before I go edit anything I'd like to point out a few things that might be sparking confusion after the matter. Just for the sake of making sure I'm clear about a couple of tidbits that I fully meant to get across in my original depiction of Ze'kyre's actions. Given that Sid was made to edit and I had to edit accordingly, and that there has been a good deal of OOC discussion between the two of us, it is more than possible some things got lost in the transition, but I do think that if you can see past the 'fluff' you'll find it is all there, and that I am in fact not pulling anything out of my butt, at least not on purpose. That would be especially gross.

I did read past the fluff and it is not all there. If you just simply blatantly disagree, then that's a problem you have in admitting when you're wrong.

There is only one pivot. In the first quote of your post you can see that the axis is described to be that of where his toe meets the ground (actually the ball of the foot but this is a minor distinction for such a movement, at least with shoes on). Combined with his wide-hipped position and his foot landing before him, all of which I provide, I shouldn't have to say 'ninety degrees' for it to be evident that he is now sideways. You are correct, this is a way to enter horse stance, a term I used through PM to help Sid understand this as well. Thats what I was going for and you seem to have understood this without question, so I'm unsure where the confusion here is rooted, especially since Sid has shown me that he has a thorough understanding of this much at this point. Anyhow, considering Ze'kyre's left foot to be the point of axis (As I clearly depict in the first quote you provide), this would be the left side of his own body that he is turning towards. For him to turn clockwise would require at least another sentence of fluff. Also considering that his right foot lands to catch his momentum, quite clearly it is a counter-clockwise turn, and just as clearly is his right foot now forward to meet Kronos. I thought I had more than adequately described the positioning of his stance, as all these points are made in my original writing, and I also attempted to describe it in relation to where he wants to be (and is doing what he can to ensure he is) in regards to Kronos.

No, you don't describe how you're moving in relation to Sid, which I clearly pointed out in my post. I went back and looked at your reply again, and it just describes what you're doing from your perspective, but it's unclear to the reader. Wide hipped position and horse stance are very different than setting one foot forward. They are entirely two different stances. If you agree with your char being in a horse stance, then he doesn't have one foot forward and you're not doing the stomp because those to counter each other. And no it's not 'clearly counter-clockwise'. If you're gonna pvp, you write that and don't expect people to make assumptions. The only reason I understood the horse stance bit is because I've taken martial arts IRL, which helps me understand your posts better. If I didn't have that background, your replies are unfairly biased in the writing style because they cater to terms/ideas martial artists would understand. And even if he is 'sideways', you're not clear about which side and what angle. Sideways can mean you're facing him from behind him diagonally or from front and adjacent. As a Force User, you can cover a wide range of motion quite easily.

Also, you are right to read it as a continuous motion, this was meant to be clear about halfway through the first paragraph of post #10, in the second quote of mine that you provide. Within which I have also provided the technique with which he 'catapults' his foot forward, which clearly calls for immediacy given my word choice in said paragraph.

If it calls for immediacy, then you have no time to look for and pinpoint Kronos' foot to stomp down on. Your next reply makes it sound like you were going for the footstomp all along, which your first reply doesn't imply. First reply simply has you covering the distance and stomping. The second reply has you conveniently placing Kronos there.

But what I'm confused about is: Where do you mean that I placed Kronos, Sreeya? If I've described anything about Kronos' positioning that you did not provide to me, Sid, please speak up about it, it is not my intention to control your character (directly anyway, of course Ze'kyre wants to control his opponent just as any tactically minded combatant would). That being said, I would like to point out that having Kronos' left foot step forward in order for him to do his original counter-attack was something Sid described to me. Since my original attack was anticipating to just penetrate the skull with the very tip, this speaks towards a range that Ze'kyre is setting up.

See above.

Although Sid did not describe the step itself, I asked him about it, since acting at the last second as he does would ensure that he is not close enough to cut off the attacking arm without taking a step forward or severely unbalancing himself. This is consequentially why he would be close enough for my knee to straighten momentarily and land with a foot on his own, given the highly trained fast-twitch muscles in Ze'kyre's calves. (Much more movement on Kronos' part than a simple motion upwards, even if that is the end goal of the lightsaber, and a commonly used and widespread technique with minimal movement on Ze'kyre's part, from the point when Sid starts moving anyway)

It's not your job to tell Sid whether acting at last second means that he somehow needs to step. It's on him to come up with that. That's what I mean by saying you're taking too many liberties and trying to tell your opponent what they should do. By following your 'advice' you're in a position to conveniently place them in a spot to stomp on their foot when before that convo, judging by your reply, you made no mention of going towards the foot. And don't tell me about the muscles and whatnot, his muscles don't act any differently than any regular shmo in the SW universe. These bits are irrelevant for pvp purposes, trust me. Just saying me "well I disagree!" won't make you correct.

When the entirety of his weight comes down upon the strike, as I wrote it, this does not mean he lands with all of his weight on the right foot or anything silly. This phrasing represents control and power within my own character, and a balance of motion when combined with his tightened core and whip-like attack, and foremost, the redirection of his momentum first upwards, than down into the ground where he now had complete control and a balanced form with which he can use such footwork. From horse stance it is easy to shoot out your foot in such a fashion as Ze'kyre did. Maybe not for most of us, but for houses of most northern east-asian styles of wushu this sort of footwork is commonplace(Northern Shaolin styles in particular are what I base Ze'kyre's technique from so that more than fits).

Doesn't matter, the way you wrote it, the entirety of his weight comes down on the strike. It doesn't matter if it's 'silly', we are going to take everything at face value in writing. What you write is what it is, not what you really mean. And the same goes for the whip-like motion. The way you wrote it just there has 10x more clarity than what you wrote in the IC reply. If you wrote it anything like that, we wouldn't have this discussion. Cut out the fluff.

The idea that Ze'kyre is performing a downward swing is both vague and lacking precision, and not one that I intended to provide you all with in post six, hence my use of the term 'whip-like'. Since Sid and I first began discussing the battle I've been explaining that it is not so simply a swing. Yes the arm starts relatively straight, but the act of it unfurling (as I depict it) means that it can not have stayed straight as he brought his foot down into horse stance. "Whip-like fashion," You don't crack a whip by swinging it, you do so by rolling it. You want the whip to act as an extension to your arm, therefore you want your arm to work in the fashion that the whip works in to a degree, as if your elbow is unfurling, as I depict Ze'kyre's to be. I thought I describe all of this quite nicely, and even if not I've been over it multiple times with multiple people who seem to see that it is there. But if its simpler to maybe say that it's a swing that starts more like a thrust I guess I can throw that in. Please don't expect me to be taking much out though, when I do edit, I'll likely be having Ze'kyre do the exact same thing he is already doing, because I am confident it works the way I am intending to use it.

If you're being intentionally vague, that's a no-go. There is a rule in the rp about vagueness, so we strongly discourage it. If you're going to purposely be vague, expect all your replies to have to go through admin screening and hold up this fight even more. I don't care how many people you've gone over with it, it's not clear. If your end result has people confused, that's your primary concern. If your end result has your opponent confused, that's your fault in writing, not the opponent's. Your writing needs to be clear enough to where any person with no pvp background can clearly picture what you write. This is to ensure if there are disputes, any admin can come help to resolve it. As it is, your writing serves to provide clarity to you alone, and no one else. I expect you to be taking out/adding in until it's to the point of being a clear reply. We will keep going back and forth on this until then, and I can bring in admins if you'd like. But we're not going to let vagueness fly, so if you intend to refuse to make edits just because you're convinced it's clear when it's not, expect more delays. No one is saying you can't do something, it simply needs to be written better.

On the contrary, I believe the section of my paragraph which you provide more than adequately describes the re-positioning of the blade. I will break it down, but all of these points are in that quote. The group of muscles in question ranges (as I provide in post ten, right before the start of your quote) primarily from the deltoid to the latissimus delsi. If you attempt to flex this part of your body you will see that it is useful for pulling your arm downwards and outwards (As in behind you), such as when you do chin ups. Given that this is a group of muscles Ze'kyre is using and the extent to which I describe him using them, it is easy to see which way the blade is going, especially given the following sentences. I mentioned the bicep so as to be clear that Ze'kyre's arm is not yet in extension (since that's pretty well what the bicep does) until after the end of the post. I also state that consequentially this makes their blades parallel, but since his sword is at first overhead he now has to bring it by his face to get it in such a position, something that I also describe, apparently quite prettily, thank ya :) I'm sorry if this seems like its supposed to confuse you, buts its not something a couple of minutes on google and some critical reading won't help clarify.

No, the description of the muscle doesn't lend ease to the arm movement, because that group of muscles can impact a wide range of motions. That could include you moving your entire torso itself. If your replies require google, you're doing something wrong. Whatever your opponent needs should be there clear as day in your reply. That's your job as a writer to provide. Pvp is something you work with the other writer on, not where you make it your mission to make your writing be a pain to get through. No, you haven't properly described how the blades get parallel, so you will need to re-write that entire motion. Simply disagreeing, like I said before, won't cut it. Make it cleaner and don't make anyone have to use outside resources to understand your posts.

So for an instant the blades are parallel, Kronos' moving upwards and Ze'kyre's moving downwards and outwards, as these two particular muscles help us do so well. All of this is provided. We also know that the blades are pointing the same direction at this point. Ze'kyre is flexible but not so flexible that he can turn his elbow completely outwards so that his forearm can reach behind him palm up, as it would have to be to become parallel and directed the opposite way, and even if this were what he was doing I would have mentioned the muscles in his chest, opposed to those in his back. Therefore it is easy to decipher from which direction the blade is coming and to which it is going. Or maybe it is not easy, but if you can manage to get by all the fluff, you'll see that I am not just filling in the gaps as I see fit. If post number ten seems at all discombobulated I posit that maybe it is because you are not viewing it as a continual movement from post number six.

Once again, stop writing about which muscle groups are being used and write about what the motion actually is. Muscle groups are responsible for a wide array of things and makes it too easy for you to later change up what you mean. You can easily adjust your intentions based on what Sid replies next by saying that the muscle groups are actually responsible for ____. Don't rely on that and clearly write out the motions, which you haven't done. It's very difficult to see it as a seamless motion because you've written it very choppy. I only guessed it was a seamless motion, but most people reading it would've read all your actions as individual ones that aren't connected.

And if this is not the case, I wholly apologize. It is not my intention to be facetious, and it is definitely not my intention to be vague. But that being said it is completely common for people to be confused by that which actually makes sense. If everything I point out here is not absolutely clear by the time you have read this and inspected over the IC with these thoughts in mind, then I will make editing post ten a top priority (well, as far as my free time goes). But it will only get longer. I don't believe in fluff, but I won't go through and describe the significance of each sentence. Even the things that seem beside the point, like the colour of Ze'kyre's hair and eye only draw attention to the fact that he is keeping his eyes on Kronos' own. From here all sorts of implications can be made, just as they would be in a real battle.

Take out the bit about the muscles group and focus on your actions and your post should be considerably shorter. I can write your reply describing every motion in about 2 paragraphs, so there's no reason you can't condense your post. But if making a longer post will offer more clarity, so be it. Until there is clarity, you may be asked to keep editing.

Anyhow, since Sid has expressed a rather thorough understanding of my positioning in his last PM (at least regarding the stance), just as you seemed to pick up right away, Sreeya, I hope we can continue by treating this as the non issue it has become. This leaves the arm/lightsaber.

So then if the motion of the arm is now clear I think its safe to say we are back to the point where I can ask Sid to address the points I made in my last PM to him. If the 'whip-like fashion' and 'latissimus dorsi' and other such fluff is not cutting it for you guys, then allow me to add a few blunt sentences to the end of my paragraphs that may help you to see the immediately relevant stuff. But please don't assume the rest is unimportant. I would not have took the time to think about and describe the location of those pillars in my first post if I did not think somebody might get backed up against one, and I can bet without even going to check that most of my writing is full of things of this sort that I'll be keen to take advantage of, even if my opponent is not. The assumption that this type of thing is irrelevant or unimportant fluff means you'd be less likely to use the tools I provide for you as an opponent.

What I call fluff is putting in descriptions about an attack that don't serve to make the attack any clearer. In the case of your replies, they really don't. Once again, I can/will have admins look at this, but the ones I showed your reply to had very little idea of exactly what you were doing going by just your reply alone. There shouldn't be a need for ooc explanations or google. We should be able to clearly follow what you're doing from your writing alone. Instead of pinning the problem with people's inability to comprehend what you write, please consider the possibility that you're simply not providing clarity.

But in any case, sorry for not getting this up sooner, had it mostly written out hours ago but I didn't want to rush it, and you know how life is. Let me know what y'all think. I will certainly make things clear for those who might be a bit late to the party but again, the post will only get longer. I don't think I wrote about anything that warrants being told I can not write about it. If you don't think its relevant you might as well just enjoy my use of pretty words :P

But alas, another seven hour day of rehearsals tomorrow, followed with another show. I may not have the chance to get on in the next twenty four hours or so but I will try to find the time to address any concerns that are still glaring when I can.

I'll keep an eye out for your edit.

 

[The Classiest Hobo]

Now, while I am not directly participating in this fight I have been reading along, and I have to say that I agree with Sreeya on her points. First of all, simply stating that you disagree doesn't make it allowed. You have to convince the admins that it is, in fact, okay the way it is, and while I'm very new to this site I am not new to roleplaying in general. At the risk of sounding horribly rude and condescending: you seem to be surrounding a lot of what you are putting in your posts with Pretty Purple Prose.

You are writing whole paragraphs worth but telling us nothing at all. Saying what muscle group your using for something makes it specific enough that from an outside glance it might seem detailed because your references to specific anatomy, yet as Sreeya has already stated: the muscular system is a wonderfully versatile system. There would be nothing stopping you from instantly just changing what it was that you said your intent was with little argument against you because the other side would have nothing but vague reference and - again the "P3" in your posts so far.

I'm no PvP master, especially where multiple participants on both sides is concerned. The main reason I was able to follow much of what you were saying was because of personal training I've pursued, but not everybody has done that. When you are writing a post, more people than you (as my post here indicates) are reading it and following the fight, and everybody has to be able to track what is going on. You shouldn't have to go through PMs or OOC to explain what is happening because it should already be clearly stated what is going on. Don't look at it exclusively from your perspective as the author. In your mind's eye, imagine yourself as an outsider looking in, but not just any outsider. The minimum age for this site is thirteen years old, and while I've met some skilled students I've never met a thirteen year old who was really set up for a full-on fight (fight, not sparring or tournaments).

So you need to be a thirteen year old outsider reading this. One who's never thrown a punch in anger, or probably even in any sort of training. Look at and try to track what is happening. Does it flow well to you, concisely delivering the info you need? Is there a clearly explained (not simply stating that it happened, but how) travel from point A to point B for movements and attacks? Would you need Google, OOC explanations, or some other third-party input? If you answered "no", "no", and "yes" then you need to condense and re-write what it is you're presenting.

Now at the risk of sounding horribly antagonistic, it feels like you're doing it even now in your replies here in the OOC, as well. A little humor or something of that nature here and there is nice, a bit of prose and extra touches can add flavor. But they are just that: touches. Something on the edge to spruce up the facts being presented. Too much and it just gets to the point that it starts ruining the post and drawing away immersion from the reader or, worse, starts drawing the reader away from the actual detail and grit of the post.

In your post it may seem like everything needed is there at an outside glance but sentence count does not equal out to necessary details. Its not how many sentences you have, its what you include in each one: words are precious. I don't care how the lightsaber's glow comes off reflected from his hair unless that is somehow a crucial key to his attack or defense. If I need to call back to old CLS training to understand what you are talking about then what hope does the thirteen year old who just registered to this site have of understanding without it being explained to him by a third-party?

Some may call me an illiterate heathen, but there were points when I literally just had to stop reading, and think back to things. Hell, talking about the Horse Stance I was half-tempted to bring up Google until I remember something my instructor had brought up about it over two years ago. And I'm pretty sure I still don't have the most accurate idea of it because all I know about for sure is that in Malay its called kekuda and that the southern Shaolin variation of it was developed with fighting on boats/barges in mind. And what does that tell me about what you are doing in your post? Well, by that information alone it tells me your character is Malaysia or possibly Singapore maybe, or that your character is a Shaolin monk on a boat. This mind's eye thirteen year old I keep referencing to? Probably doesn't track any of that.

As for everything else? I think Sreeya effectively covered most everything else I could think to touch on. I was mainly just posting my two cents. Take it or leave it as you want.



TL;DR? I'm not surprised. I went full-throttle on embellishment and made that as lengthy as I thought I could without making it impossible to read.

• Length =/ actual info.
• Apply KIS: Keep It Simple.
• When in doubt, look at it like a 13 year old.
• Need google or the OOC to explain? Rewrite it till you don't.
• Prose is for touching up and finishing, not for material.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

KISS ("Keep it Simple, Stupid") is very important in PvP. When you're in a duel with another RPer, one where you don't have a pre-determined ending, then you need to apply KISS. You need to be clear and direct. Fluff and flowery prose may look nice, but it's a hinderance to the other RPers when you're in PvP. If I'm fighting you, I should not have to dissect long posts to understand what it is that you're trying to do. I don't need to know what your character is thinking, how their muscles are moving, what the movement does to their hair, how the Force flows through them, etc. I need to know your actions. I need the straight up details about what actions you are taking.

You should just write the actions. That's all that's needed. Save the flowery prose and character exploration for non-PvP threads.

 

[GABA]

Songweaver, please clear up the jargon and as Brandon posted, keep it simple and make it clear to other members to what exactly your character is doing. This is holding up the battle and it needs to stop, you can disagree to others finding your post confusing, but when you have to write an essay explaining what you are doing, then honestly, its not very clear at all.

Make the appropriate edits to your post so Sid can also do as such and lets move on.

 

[Resolute\\.ZEN]

As I mentioned earlier I do intend to edit the post but I'm afraid I didn't have time at all yesterday and I won't today either. During the weekend I should have ample time to check out all of your concerns and clear things up but I've got to make a sound check here shortly so please be patient.

Thanks, see you all soon!

 

[Wit]

So as per this, Resolute is taking a break from the site due to RL issues. How should we proceed now?

 

[Raydo]

Well its obvious, I turn both of you to lightside with my charming personality :) , but seriously, I am not sure how to proceed either.

 

[GABA]

Hi guys, sorry for the delay!

Continue on without Songweaver, the most recent attack against his Jedi will hit, but just make sure it is nonlethal and just knocks his character out for the thread.

 

[Wit]

Ok, cool. So he's electrocuted and knocked out and the rest of move on with the thread.

 

[Wit]

Sorry for the double post but we wanted some clarification on whether we continue this as a 2v1.

 

[Raydo]

Sorry for the delayed post. I believe that is the plan.

 

[Wit]

Yeah, I was told to make a post as is.

 

[Raydo]

I didn't see your post but I just read it. I will post next I suppose if every one is cool with that.

 

[Raydo]

Got home and my internet is out. They are coming to look at it tomorrow. At the latest will be tomorrow night when I got to work...but hopefully earlier

 

[Raydo]

I have posted. Thanks for being patient with me.

 

[Aaron Corinth]

I have somewhat taken myself out of the fight, but prepared to jump back in nonetheless. Surprise and deceptive tactics are rather sithy after all. Nice move there Raydo.

 

[Wit]

Eating right now, will try to get a post up in a few hours.

 

[Raydo]

I'm not sure if Force Push works in the way you are trying to use it Aaron. I don't think there is any push back against the Force User. I could be wrong though.

 

[GABA]

I have somewhat taken myself out of the fight, but prepared to jump back in nonetheless. Surprise and deceptive tactics are rather sithy after all. Nice move there Raydo.

So you're still in the fight? Its a yes or no question, I don't want to play around with maybes.