Battle of Tython - Forge OOC

[z0pu]

He's doing the the block instead of doing a thrust. Redirecting a thrust into a parry is a very basic fencing move and is by every mean much faster than crouching and swinging low.

 

[Darasuum]

If he's doing the block instead of the thrust the thrust would have come after Brent's slice anyways since it happens during the feint which came before the thrust.

parallel timeline:
Cinder |||||||||||||| Brent
1) overhead strike | drop down/swing for shins
2) feint ||||||||||| | slice at shins contact happens/contact with cinder's blade if he had continued the overhead strike
3) thrust ||||||||||| brent hasn't done anything in this time period yet

 

[KinkyPrawn]

@Darasuum I as I understand it Cinder's 1 and 2 is the same move, not seperate. His overhead is the feint, so dropping his blade is still possible and a VERY easy and quick move even for a beefy boi like Cinder.

So for him to simply alter course mid-swing is the whole point, since the swing is a feint.

 

[Darasuum]

@Darasuum I as I understand it Cinder's 1 and 2 is the same move, not seperate. His overhead is the feint, so dropping his blade is still possible and a VERY easy and quick move even for a beefy boi like Cinder.

So for him to simply alter course mid-swing is the whole point, since the swing is a feint.

one blade can't be in two places at once. For a feint to work there has to be movement of an actual overhead strike otherwise he's just holding his blade ready in a stabbing pose.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Of course, I'm not saying his blade is in two places.

The way I see it is:

Cinder raises blade - Brent readies to defend

Cinder swings halfway to make Brent flinch - Brent flinches(falls for the feint), drops to knee and then both blocks and swings.

Cinder's swing wasn't followed through and since it was a feint Brent fell for, Cinder isn't going for a stab anymore.

So from there all Cinder has to do is drop his arm and twist his wrist to bypass Brent's overhead block.


Don't get me wrong, it'll be SUPER CLOSE, LIKE MILLIMETERS HERE. You two could still say Brent knicked Cinder on the one leg or grazed him. Cuz it will be insanely close. So perhaps taking slight damage and breaking off might be a middle ground here

But overall, Cinder's move is plausible.

 

[Darasuum]

Of course, I'm not saying his blade is in two places.

The way I see it is:

Cinder raises blade - Brent readies to defend

Cinder swings halfway to make Brent flinch - Brent flinches, drops to knee and then both blocks and swings.

Cinder's swing wasn't followed through and since it was a feint Brent fell for, Cinder isn't going for a stab anymore.

So from there all Cinder has to do is drop his arm and twist his wrist to bypass Brent's overhead block.


Don't get me wrong, it'll be SUPER CLOSE, LIKE MILLIMETERS HERE. You two could still say Brent knicked Cinder on the one leg or grazed him. Cuz it will be insanely close. So perhaps taking slight damage and breaking off might be a middle ground here

But overall, Cinder's move is plausible.

That contradicts the timeline of events that I stated previously


please see the above post

When Cinder raises his blade is when Brent does the block and swing.

 

[z0pu]

I clearly stated in my previous post the vertical swing was not committed. He began the motion but it was actually to turn it into the thrust. That is what a Feint is.

So they way this happened is:
Cinder began to move like he was swinging down / Brent raised his saber an crouched swinging
Cinder twists to thrust originally but cancels to block / Brent would make contact but blocked

He would not commit the thrust if there is an attack coming.
There is only two steps in the flow events.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Ok stealing your table here. What we mean from the whole thing is this:

parallel timeline:
Cinder |||||||||||||| Brent
1) overhead strike/ feint | drop down/swing for shins
2) Thrust ||||||||||| | slice at shins contact happens/contact with cinder's blade if he had continued the overhead strike
3) Cinder hasn't done anything in this time period yet||||||||||| brent hasn't done anything in this time period yet


The feint is the overhead strike. Then he reciprocates for a stab while Brent swings.

Again, then all Cinder will have to do is drop his blade even further to intercept Brent's. And like I said it will be a very close move. So instead of going back and forth until we end up with a review which I'd like to avoid for this duel, the two of you can agree on a middle ground. A cut over the shin will hurt him, but it won't permanently damage him which I think is the fear here. It will also cause a bit of a setback for Cinder but not take him out completely.

 

[Darasuum]

I clearly stated in my previous post the vertical swing was not committed. He began the motion but it was actually to turn it into the thrust. That is what a Feint is.

So they way this happened is:
Cinder began to move like he was swinging down / Brent raised his saber an crouched swinging
Cinder twists to thrust originally but cancels to block / Brent would make contact but blocked

He would not commit the thrust if there is an attack coming.
There is only two steps in the flow events.

How are you able to do an overhead strike (which requires the point of the blade to be away from the target) and then immediatly go in for a stab when someone is less than a meter away and more or less inside your guard by that point?

Spoiler: reference

He was at 2 or even 3 his arms would be extended unless he's got Trex arms (his elbows are like attached to his hips). That means he would have to pull his handle back towards him to feint for a stab/thrust. If he tried to come down and block the blade Brent is swinging at his shins he would be stopped by Brent's overhead blade protecting him since he's inside his guard. Probably could have mentioned I've done fencing and you can't manuever a blade like you're trying to do.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

How are you able to do an overhead strike (which requires the point of the blade to be away from the target) and then immediatly go in for a stab when someone is less than a meter away and more or less inside your guard by that point?

Spoiler: reference

He was at 2 or even 3 his arms would be extended unless he's got Trex arms (his elbows are like attached to his hips). That means he would have to pull his handle back towards him to feint for a stab/thrust. If he tried to come down and block the blade Brent is swinging at his shins he would be stopped by Brent's overhead blade protecting him since he's inside his guard. Probably could have mentioned I've done fencing and you can't manuever a blade like you're trying to do.

I think it's needed to say fencing and normal swords are a whole different ball game, since the weight is very different. Since lightsabers don't have a weight in the blade you can argue that doing weird stuff you can't do with a longsword or Katana is very much a possibility. Also in that diagram it's possible to swing with bent elbows rather than straightened like in that picture.

There's also this part in paragraph 3:

At the same time Cinder would jump back and push with the Force using his right hand against the Padawan.

So even if him dropping his thrust to block is unsuccessful, he's moving backwards anyway which is also a quick move even for a guy that big. Even if just to barely be missed. Then there's the force push which might also interrupt Brent's swing by blowing him in the face most likely

 

[Darasuum]

Ok stealing your table here. What we mean from the whole thing is this:

parallel timeline:
Cinder |||||||||||||| Brent
1) overhead strike/ feint | drop down/swing for shins
2) Thrust ||||||||||| | slice at shins contact happens/contact with cinder's blade if he had continued the overhead strike
3) Cinder hasn't done anything in this time period yet||||||||||| brent hasn't done anything in this time period yet


The feint is the overhead strike. Then he reciprocates for a stab while Brent swings.

Again, then all Cinder will have to do is drop his blade even further to intercept Brent's. And like I said it will be a very close move. So instead of going back and forth until we end up with a review which I'd like to avoid for this duel, the two of you can agree on a middle ground. A cut over the shin will hurt him, but it won't permanently damage him which I think is the fear here. It will also cause a bit of a setback for Cinder but not take him out completely.

If he's doing the feint the blade needs to move or prep as appearing to be an overhead strike which is on the opposite side of his body from where Brent is striking. Brent moves into his dropdown/swing for shins before Cinder completes the feint or prep for the thrust.

Even if he would have begun the thrust then he also would have begun to try and swing down to block the lightsaber which would still be too late because the contact with Cinder's legs would happen just as he's beggining a thrust or trying to block. He has to bring the blade all the way down (with brent inside his guard still blocking with his own blade)

I think it's needed to say fencing and normal swords are a whole different ball game, since the weight is very different. Since lightsabers don't have a weight in the blade you can argue that doing weird stuff you can't do with a longsword or Katana is very much a possibility. Also in that diagram it's possible to swing with bent elbows rather than straightened like in that picture.


There's also this part in paragraph 3:

weight is different maybe. Lightsaber do actually have weight to them. Also, reach, guard, etc all still are a thing as well as shared time because if Cinder's saber is not weighing anything and he can block fast then that just means Brent's attack is equally faster too and makes that point moot.

Did he say he was swinging with bent Elbows? No? then he didn't do it.

So even if him dropping his thrust to block is unsuccessful, he's moving backwards anyway which is also a quick move even for a guy that big. Even if just to barely be missed. Then there's the force push which might also interrupt Brent's swing by blowing him in the face most likely

He's a big dude and I will say that with his previous firm stance and method of thrusting forward isn't going to realistically be on his toes to jump back like some naruto shinobi or small jumping around force user like yoda. He was intent on stabbing brent a moment ago and didn't mention being ready to evade an attack. On top of that both Brent and Cinder are level 1s and he's trying to block, jump and also do a force push simultaniously when 'canceling' out of his previous action which is too much.

 

[z0pu]

For the sake of ending this argument. If I just jump back, using the force to increase the distance can we just move on and pick the fight up clean?

 

[Darasuum]

For the sake of ending this argument. If I just jump back, using the force to increase the distance can we just move on and pick the fight up clean?

I think that's fine if you get cut in one leg considering the circumstances.

 

[z0pu]

Edited

 

[Darasuum]

@KinkyPrawn narrative in rp is all done in past tense 3rd person so when you say "bolts would hit X" that reads like an auto hit. Instead please word it like "he aimed his pistol at X" or "he intended for it to hit X" "if she did not move it would hit her X" That is the main thing that brings confusion to people in PvP setting. That's fine against NPCs because there's nobody to refute it. Thanks.