Bible does not define Marriage.

[Orphen]

If you want to quote Jesus though let's go with "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12). Which tells you plain and simple that if you want to get married to the person of your choice than you have to allow everyone else to marry the person of their choice. Isn't learning fun?

<3 Nice :)

The funny thing with the bible is you have a lot of people saying similar things, in similar contexts, but never really saying the same thing in the same context. I think hollow is quite right as well.

Though I like how no-one really payed much attention/ response to Nike, I thought he made some good points.

 

[Kaeb]

<3

 

[Nameless]

Though I like how no-one really payed much attention/ response to Nike, I thought he made some good points.

Nike's a she, and we could argue translations til we're blue in the face. For instance, the word "slave" as it refers to the Hebrew's in Egypt is actually more directly translated to "servant". This (along with a few other details) has lead many people to come to the conclusion that the Hebrews were actually paid laborers. The fact of the matter is that the people using the Bible as stumbling block in the footpath of progress are using the translations that exist now so it doesn't really matter what it said originally.

 

[Kaeb]

Exactly.

Even the virgin birth is considered as simply a matter of mistranslation.

 

[Empress]

you get stuff like that in everything too...

A Buddhist example - and remember that eastern things are more 'A la carte - you take elements of something and adapt it to your own base sects, an example is the Tibetan sect- is nothing like the more " mysticless- realist like zen sects" because they built it INTO their existing beliefs, same as many of the chinese purelands working taoism into it etc etc......"

but one story about Siddhartha's birth is that he was born from a hole in his mothers side. This for whatever reason gets taken as something magical and special and fantasy like - nobody stops to realize that at the time of his birth in 560-ish BCE India/Nepal (and all around that area) were known to already be performing cesarean deliveries ....so long story short, Queen Maha maya had a C-section done after going into early labor while her caravan was traveling. which may also be why she died a week later of complications

but shows that again, nothing coming from the human experience can go through time without being warped, distorted, interpreted, shaped by ones own understandings of the time, preconceptions, prejudice etc etc

 

[Kaeb]

So taking literal truths from those conflicted, ancient and outdated works and attempting to use them to influence policy or the lives of others in a modern platform is ridiculous, petty and inherently evil.

I mean, the Bible was written before we knew that that you can see less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum and hear less than 1% of the acoustic spectrum. As you read this, you are traveling at 220 km/sec across the galaxy. 90% of the cells in your body carry their own microbial DNA and are not ‘you’. The atoms in your body are 99.9999999999999999% empty space and none of them are the ones you were born with, but they all originated in the belly of a star. Human beings have 46 chromosomes, 2 less than the common potato. The existence of the rainbow depends on the conical photoreceptors in your eyes; to animals without cones, the rainbow does not exist. So you don’t just look at a rainbow, you create it. This is pretty amazing, especially considering that all the beautiful colors you see represent less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum.

So why would you take the words of others who weren't privy to all of this information, and apply those words to not only your understanding of the world, but the people who occupy it?

We can't prove or falsify deistic god-concepts. We can however, test and falsify theistic claims that pertain to the observable world. One very popular claim to support the existence of magical gods is the existence of complex life, as in, it's too complex that only magical gods could've made it. This claim has been tested and refuted with biology, and thus, one of the pillars of theistic god-concepts has been knocked down.

God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.

 

[Empress]

I love that the Dali Lama's favorite subject to study is quantum theory and as he said " I love when science learns something, and can prove an old understanding wrong, because it pushes us forward in our knowledge of the universe and what it means to be us."

also helps that scientifically speaking - there is no " us" we are just another facent born of the same things everything else in the universe is too...which in the philosophies more or less solidifies the idea of the empty self- you dont separate yourself from reality, from one thing or the next, because at the core we are all one and the same thing.

most of the teachings " alone" basically break down to " dont be a dick, and dont think too highly of yourself, " but it does embrace advancement in understanding, not trying to stomp it out because it contradicts a idea based on limited understanding of something over 2000 years before.



Edit:

Im bringing a different concept into this too to illustrate and remind that 1) there is not just one belief system in the world- some of them are actually older, bigger and still going strong. 2) all of them new are old are prone to being re-spun and altered with time.



Also when I was studying- my master's master...a very very uptight looking 90 year old man in very formal robes and seemed as traditional as you can get was the one who was talking about the mythos and such behind hanamatsuri ( buddha's birthday) and told his birth story..... he got to the point where " Siddhartha then stood up after being born, and walked - in each footprint of his a lotus flower bloomed and it began to rain sweet tea..and he spoke, and said " the world may rejoice for I am now here"

he stopped right thre and laughed.... and said. " we all know that's bullshit " ( in very broken english- it was cute) " we all know no baby can do that- and they knew it then too- you have to understand that things like this are metaphoric- its expressing a feeling not a fact, and you respect it as such, but never take it to heart else you will only delude yourself ."

 

[Kaeb]

Yup.

 

[Arisalin]

I'll post something later. It seems to me that most Christian related content on here ends up having a bunch of atheistic men and women hating on us and saying everyone is equal and we shouldn't be able to judge others. What seems to be the problem is, if everyone is equal, why can't we have our own views? (I'm not saying we always state our views kindly, but as i've seen to many times to count on this site, neither do you.)

Anyways. I'll be back.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The right to your own views goes both ways. You are allowed to have your views, such as that homosexuality is a sin and that gay marriage should not be allowed. We are allowed to have our views, which is that your views are stupid.

 

[Shiuzu]

I'll post something later. It seems to me that most Christian related content on here ends up having a bunch of atheistic men and women hating on us and saying everyone is equal and we shouldn't be able to judge others. What seems to be the problem is, if everyone is equal, why can't we have our own views? (I'm not saying we always state our views kindly, but as i've seen to many times to count on this site, neither do you.)

Anyways. I'll be back.

People are trying to stifle your way of life? That must be tragic.

 

[Kaeb]

I'll post something later. It seems to me that most Christian related content on here ends up having a bunch of atheistic men and women hating on us and saying everyone is equal and we shouldn't be able to judge others. What seems to be the problem is, if everyone is equal, why can't we have our own views? (I'm not saying we always state our views kindly, but as i've seen to many times to count on this site, neither do you.)

Anyways. I'll be back.

You poor poor Christains certainly deserve pity don't you?

Don't make me laugh. Or do, I like to laugh.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

You poor poor Christains certainly deserve pity don't you?

Don't make me laugh. Or do, I like to laugh.

Let's be careful not to generalize. Over 50% of the United States, for example, now supports gay marriage. Christians in the United States are about 75% of the population. So, quite a lot of Christians support gay marriage.

 

[Kaeb]

Let's be careful not to generalize. Over 50% of the United States, for example, now supports gay marriage. Christians in the United States are about 75% of the population. So, quite a lot of Christians support gay marriage.

In this particular case, generalisations are relevant, it feeds into the "War on Chrismtas" mentality, with Christains claiming to be oppressed as a whole, despite the irony of such claims. So when I refer to Christains, I'm solely referring to Christains who are claiming to be victims of oppression, when any oppression they might feel, is completely deserved given the centuries their doctine has enacted oppression under the name of God.

Until they recognise the irony of their claiming to be victims, they can never take part in a serious discourse on the subject.

 

[Arisalin]

The right to your own views goes both ways. You are allowed to have your views, such as that homosexuality is a sin and that gay marriage should not be allowed. We are allowed to have our views, which is that your views are stupid.

Having your own views is one thing. I didn't say you all couldn't have your own views above. I just said that both sides have a hard time expressing these without either cussing the other out, saying other people are stupid (Ahem...), or just basically raging. I'm not saying you can't have views, all I said was that all of us slip and turn debates into people getting angry with each other.

As I said. I'll be back later. Website I was planning on getting a source from is down. :)

(Not that I plan on debating you all. The pro-gay people and all that on here have a way of turning it into a insult fight that I want to avoid, and they seem to have scientific sources that aren't really sources since a fallen world is always going to try to prove it's not fallen. I'm going to state my beliefs and that's it. Nothing I can do but live in a Christian manner, talk in a Christian manner, and pray for people who do otherwise. Especially at this day and age, where just doing those harmless things I just listed makes people get angry.)

 

[Shiuzu]

We're turning it into an insult fight?..you're saying that people who are gay aren't allowed to get married because you guys and the bible say so, and that their way of lives are unnatural...and we're being insulting...yeah, ok.

 

[Kaeb]

Arisalin I don't think you understand that you're views by their very definition are an insult to large portions of the human race, and furthermore, an opinion can be wrong and can be stupid, thus warranting such remarks.

No one here is ever angry in debates, at least not that I've encountered for real. Frustrated maybe, but that's thanks to the nature of the medium we are using to debate in the first place. Pros and I have talked before about how tonality really has no merit when it come to online arguments and is largely irrelevant, and in any ways is impossible to accurately determine.

Bac, Shiuzu, Johnny, and Pros tend to understand this whenever we've had a discussion. There's a difference between arguing strongly without coddling someone, and being angry with them. That seems to be what you're not getting.

 

[Arisalin]

People are trying to stifle your way of life? That must be tragic.

Yes it is.

Let's be careful not to generalize. Over 50% of the United States, for example, now supports gay marriage. Christians in the United States are about 75% of the population. So, quite a lot of Christians support gay marriage.

You have to count the fact that out of that amount, not all are actually true Christians. It’s more of who goes to church and who doesn’t.

Arisalin I don't think you understand that you're views by their very definition are an insult to large portions of the human race, and furthermore, an opinion can be wrong and can be stupid, thus warranting such remarks.

No one here is ever angry in debates, at least not that I've encountered for real. Frustrated maybe, but that's thanks to the nature of the medium we are using to debate in the first place. Pros and I have talked before about how tonality really has no merit when it come to online arguments and is largely irrelevant, and in any ways is impossible to accurately determine.

Bac, Shiuzu, Johnny, and Pros tend to understand this whenever we've had a discussion. There's a difference between arguing strongly without coddling someone, and being angry with them. That seems to be what you're not getting.

I understand perfectly – I just disagree. Which is my opinion. I’m just taking the stand, that you all can call my God stupid all you want, and call me stupid even. I just won’t say the same about you. That’s just how it’s going to be. As I said, Christians have problems stating their beliefs a large percentage of the time because we end up doing just that. Calling people degrading things when anyone as you said can be wrong in their ideas. It's just my belief that i'm not wrong. Which is, thankfully, my decision to make. Just as people who are pro-gay anti-God are allowed to make their own choices.

The only difference here, is the fact that I won't call you stupid for choosing the things I think are wrong. I'm going to state my beliefs, and pray. I won't respond to attacks on my faith once the video is up and running, though i'm sure they will come. :)

 

[Shiuzu]

Well then don't come in here saying that we're being insulting when you're doing the exact same damn thing. I don't think you're a stupid person, nor do I think your religion, or any religion for that matter is stupid. People are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe. That being said, your faith is not infallible, there's a number of things that can and should be questioned about Christianity. And that's how things should be, it isn't a slight, it isn't an insult, it's merely human nature to question things.

You can't come in here and claim that gay people don't deserve the same rights as everyone else then say that we're being unfair by questioning your logic, your reasons, and your bible. A number of times we've even displayed a number of counterpoints that you've either ignored or brushed off. So until you plan on having a discussion where you will come at this with a truly open mind, there's no point.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

No one here is actually insulting God or Christianity. That's what you can't seem to grasp. We will criticize particular beliefs, but you then jump on the "OMG YOU INSULT GOD!" bandwagon. Which, at the end of the day, is your problem, not ours.