Corellian Independence Party

[Vince of America]

I'm just going to present responses one at a time, mostly because I'm too mentally and physically tired of repeating myself to form them into cohesive paragraph form.


First, I'm pretty sure I recognize Apollo's speech there as something Jacen Solo said, so much so that I thought it might've been a quote.


I'm sorry, but all I hear is the GA shaking in its space-boots about loosing potential resources and blaster fodder if the Corellian System declares its neutrality.


The most prominent time that Corellia invoked Contemplanys Hermi was during the Separatist Crisis, where the Republic's greatest fear was systems breaking away to form the Confederacy, and yet their actions were still recognized as perfectly legal, legitimate, and non-threatening.


Legally speaking, Corellia would be in the right to declare Contemplanys Hermi, which has been legally recognized by the Alliance as a fundamental right of the Corellian System due to its important galactic contributions and uniquely independent cultural history. In fact, if we're getting down to the nitty-gritty legalese, the Galactic Alliance has already perpetrated an act of war against Corellia, and declaring Meditative Solitude is the least extreme measure it could logically take. Part of the GA Charter included that the Alliance could not require Corellia to contribute military resources, including but not limited to personnel (a draft, perhaps), and to do so could be construed as a break of the terms of Alliance and an act of war.


Neutrality is not surrender, it's survival in a situation where the whole galaxy is at war and people are being dragged to fight for somebody else in another corner of the galaxy.


As to whether isolation is wise or not, that should be left up to the people of the planet that seeks to isolate itself. Regardless, if Corellia does not wish to take part in the war, and only defend their own borders from incursion, it would be able to do so. Corellia's shipyards have the capacity to build three Corellian Dreadnaughts (each of which can handily defeat two fully equipped Imperial II-class Star Destroyers by itself) and the complementary support ships (including capital ships) to the tone of three full-sized fleets within a standard year at full production. That (or a smaller and more purpose-built fleet) could certainly defend the system from anything but a full-scale assault by either major faction.


Of course, that would only happen if and when the CIP gains a political majority on Corellia.

The "pretty little idea" of being assassinated comes from being labeled "terrorists". A political party on a sovereign world being targeted as terrorists by the GA...makes it seem like somebody might have an "accident", if you know what I mean. If you don't know what I mean, I mean being assassinated. That is usually what happens to terrorists, from my experience.

 

[Matty]

I've had a long night and today is going to be an even longer day. I'm going to be blunt about this. Just take my words literally and read them carefully, I'm not attaching any hidden meaning. So if what I write seems angry or mean, it is not. I'm just thoroughly exhausted

First, I'm pretty sure I recognize Apollo's speech there as something Jacen Solo said, so much so that I thought it might've been a quote.

In no way whatsoever was or will I ever quote Jacen Solo. If there ever was a character that I loathe, it is him. In no way is Apollo even remotely close to Jacen Solo and comparing my words or him to that pathetic excuse for a Jedi is rather insulting.

I'm sorry, but all I hear is the GA shaking in its space-boots about loosing potential resources and blaster fodder if the Corellian System declares its neutrality.


The most prominent time that Corellia invoked Contemplanys Hermi was during the Separatist Crisis, where the Republic's greatest fear was systems breaking away to form the Confederacy, and yet their actions were still recognized as perfectly legal, legitimate, and non-threatening.

We are not "shaking in our space boots" about losing Corellia. I'm worried about losing a viable military and moral resource. Your opinion of your own people (I guess that's how I would word that) is rather pathetic. In no way would I use Corellia as fodder. In no way would I use any one group of people as fodder. If the GA is anything, it is egalitarian. Everyone will do their share of fighting and everyone will do their share of dying. In order to defeat the Sith, everyone must work together.

Corellia has always been a driving force within the GA. Their can-do attitude and unwillingness to be subjugated was what helped make the Rebellion so successful. Han Solo, Wedge Antilles, Garm Bel Iblis the Horn family etc... are all MAJOR figures within Alliance history. They are all immortalized heroes within the GA. So if the planet where these legendary figures are from decides to up and leave and become neutral during a war time setting, it would cripple morale. Corellia has always been a core founder of the Republic/Rebellion/GA. If we willingly allowed you to leave, it would be the same as us leasing Endor to the Sith or Mandos. Corellia is just to important for us to lose. If the leave, then it will just set precedent where other systems can just up and leave and like GABA said, the GA will fall apart or the Sith will most definitely swoop in and take advantage of our weakened state

The most prominent time that Corellia invoked Contemplanys Hermi was during the Separatist Crisis, where the Republic's greatest fear was systems breaking away to form the Confederacy, and yet their actions were still recognized as perfectly legal, legitimate, and non-threatening.


Legally speaking, Corellia would be in the right to declare Contemplanys Hermi, which has been legally recognized by the Alliance as a fundamental right of the Corellian System due to its important galactic contributions and uniquely independent cultural history. In fact, if we're getting down to the nitty-gritty legalese, the Galactic Alliance has already perpetrated an act of war against Corellia, and declaring Meditative Solitude is the least extreme measure it could logically take. Part of the GA Charter included that the Alliance could not require Corellia to contribute military resources, including but not limited to personnel (a draft, perhaps), and to do so could be construed as a break of the terms of Alliance and an act of war.

Neutrality is not surrender, it's survival in a situation where the whole galaxy is at war and people are being dragged to fight for somebody else in another corner of the galaxy.

The Alliance wasn't at war, so that situation does not count. The clause you are quoting was also proposed in 16,700 BBY. That is well before this timeline and well before any of this could happen. There is no real way to prove that "Contemplanys Hermi" is still in effect in 1,012 ABY. I don't remember any mention of it during the Legacy arc either. If you want to still invoke it, feel free but remember that there will be consequences because of that. I'm not talking military action or what not but it could bring the end to the Alliance as we know it. I'm trying to RP these two factions as realistically as possible. I fully plan on using the morale level of the GA as a plot point and if Corellia leaves, I see the morale of the GA being crushed. Watching your own side run in terror is worse than being defeated in battle.

The problem with Corellia is that they have always been about Corellia. The way you guys are portraying them makes it seem that they are craven and just do not want to stand against the Sith, that they are very selfish people who want to only help themselves. The Corellia I know from Han Solo and Wedge are the complete opposite. Those two had no problem stepping up and doing what needed to be done against the Empire. They willingly fought (Han not at first) and would have willingly died (maybe not Han) if the time required it. In no way as the Rebellion "their fight" because it was everyone's fight...just as the war now. I'm not asking you to fight for Apollo, the GA or the Congress, I'm asking you to fight for yourselves. Because when the time comes, it will be YOUR homes, YOUR land and YOUR families at risk. I'm only asking that you pick up a rifle and do what needs to be done, to do your fair share.

Also, Neutrality is surrender in the case as you are just putting up your arms and saying "I'm done". You're quitting.

As to whether isolation is wise or not, that should be left up to the people of the planet that seeks to isolate itself. Regardless, if Corellia does not wish to take part in the war, and only defend their own borders from incursion, it would be able to do so. Corellia's shipyards have the capacity to build three Corellian Dreadnaughts (each of which can handily defeat two fully equipped Imperial II-class Star Destroyers by itself) and the complementary support ships (including capital ships) to the tone of three full-sized fleets within a standard year at full production. That (or a smaller and more purpose-built fleet) could certainly defend the system from anything but a full-scale assault by either major faction

If the GA gets defeated there will be nothing to stop the Chiss (maybe), Mandos and Sith. You maybe be able to defend against a small or medium invasion, but have fun trying to defend against the full might of the Sith and Mando fleets. The Mandos are such a threat, that I even had to restrict the amount of NPCs they bring in this upcoming battle. Corellian pride is nothing compared to Mandalorian beskar.

To quote good old Benjamin Franklin, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"

The "pretty little idea" of being assassinated comes from being labeled "terrorists". A political party on a sovereign world being targeted as terrorists by the GA...makes it seem like somebody might have an "accident", if you know what I mean. If you don't know what I mean, I mean being assassinated. That is usually what happens to terrorists, from my experience.

You're letting my OOC words judge my IC actions. Just because I say something doesn't mean i'll do it. I also have never said anything about assassination. Yes, I will label you guys as terrorists if and when the time come because that is what you are. You may not be blowing up buildings or raiding supply convoys, but what you are doing is just as bad. If the GA has zero morale, the war is already lost.

Keep in mind, that I am all for this. It offers a lot of interesting paths for amazing stories.

 

[Orphen]

Lol wow! Well you've definatly caused controversy, I like this group. My new GA soldier soon will definatly cast in his vote. More neutral zones = more spice trade

 

[Brandon Rhea]

There’s a lot of controversy here over something that may not even be approved by the staff—and I should remind everyone that indie factions must be approved by the staff before they can be used, so the Corellian Independence Party can’t do anything until Lavi or Boli signs off on it.

In the case of a faction like this, there’s a major consideration that needs to be weighed. That consideration is whether someone can simply create an indie faction that changes the alignment of an entire planet. Although the approval of this faction does not, by default, change the alignment of a planet, that is clearly its goal and, as such, that factor will be weighed. The reason that’s an important question is because if factions like this were created and they led to the secession of a planet from the Alliance, then all the Sith would have to do is create a whole bunch of factions like this and change the alignment of major Alliance worlds from allied to neutral. The Alliance could also do the same by creating factions for Sith worlds and changing their alignments. That's not fair role-playing.

All of that begs the question as to what power individual RPers, as well as indie factions, have over planets that are aligned with main factions, which is always a tricky question. While we do allow some wiggle room, our default answer is generally "very little to no power at all." So one of the more likely outcomes of the review of this faction, at least in my estimation (and this is me speaking for myself, not the staff), would be that the faction could exist, but it couldn’t control Corellia to the point where Corellia left the Alliance.

We’ll see how the approval process goes, though.

 

[Orphen]

There’s a lot of controversy here over something that may not even be approved by the staff—and I should remind everyone that indie factions must be approved by the staff before they can be used, so the Corellian Independence Party can’t do anything until Lavi or Boli signs off on it.

In the case of a faction like this, there’s a major consideration that needs to be weighed. That consideration is whether someone can simply create an indie faction that changes the alignment of an entire planet. Although the approval of this faction does not, by default, change the alignment of a planet, that is clearly its goal and, as such, that factor will be weighed. The reason that’s an important question is because if factions like this were created and they led to the secession of a planet from the Alliance, then all the Sith would have to do is create a whole bunch of factions like this and change the alignment of major Alliance worlds from allied to neutral. The Alliance could also do the same by creating factions for Sith worlds and changing their alignments. That's not fair role-playing.

All of that begs the question as to what power individual RPers, as well as indie factions, have over planets that are aligned with main factions, which is always a tricky question. While we do allow some wiggle room, our default answer is generally "very little to no power at all." So one of the more likely outcomes of the review of this faction, at least in my estimation (and this is me speaking for myself, not the staff), would be that the faction could exist, but it couldn’t control Corellia to the point where Corellia left the Alliance.

We’ll see how the approval process goes, though.

(I acknowledge your position as you said as you not staff but...)

God has spoken

 

[Black Noise]

Well, once(or if) this faction is approved, I'll either get a character or make one to support this.

EDiT: by this I mean the faction, and give me a moment, I've got a two cents input to write :CSly

EDIT EDIT:
Two cents

An idea for this faction that I have is this:
Similar to The Black Sun, these people COULD be labeled as just terrorists and pirates and be allowed to exist on Corellia with the enmity of the Alliance. The faction doesn't need to(ever) get control of the government to become a minor influence in this timeline's storyline. These people could just exist as a splinter group operating on Corellia as people who want separation from the alliance, but as per the main storyline they could just never get it. Bac, you once said something similar to the following a few months ago: A people, without the concent(sp?) of the people's Faction leader, cannot be controlled nor rebel from the influence of any other faction.*
This, unless Apollo 'oks' it, then these people would just be in constant opposition with the Corellian government without ever making any changes.*
If the above were to happen, then multiple indie 'Sith' or 'Jedi' factions trying to do the same thing would be utterly useless seeing as a planet's alliagnmemt(sp?) depends on the Faction leader of that system's decision.
For example, Ruusan may be the home of The Brotherhood of Judicium, but that doesn't mean they can assassinate the rulers and take over. They may stay there in opposition of the government, but they'll never take the planet.

Am I too rambly or do you get it?

 

[Raif]

If this gets approved, I would like to do a thread where my Sith (and possibly Weiss' with me) approach your leadership and offers to provide some substantial funding.

 

[Corrupt Justice]

The thing here is that the characters in control of this faction are completely independent and started off that way, not caring about any of the factions. Our characters were slighted by the Galactic Alliance (taking away their adoptive son through the draft of Corellian people, which is ironically Apollo's character) and they're attempting to set things straight for Corellians by Corellians, not as Jedi or as Sith or Chiss or Mando or other faction that simply wants them to split off from the GA for the sole sake of weakening the GA. Everything we're doing here is through completely legal means, as we don't WANT to be a terrorist political party, just a legitimate political party trying to gain power through legitimate means.

 

[Matty]

The thing here is that the characters in control of this faction are completely independent and started off that way, not caring about any of the factions. Our characters were slighted by the Galactic Alliance (taking away their adoptive son through the draft of Corellian people, which is ironically Apollo's character) and they're attempting to set things straight for Corellians by Corellians, not as Jedi or as Sith or Chiss or Mando or other faction that simply wants them to split off from the GA for the sole sake of weakening the GA. Everything we're doing here is through completely legal means, as we don't WANT to be a terrorist political party, just a legitimate political party trying to gain power through legitimate means.

There are more than one kind of terrorist. If I'm not mistaken, Nelson Mandela was labeled a terrorist for the longest time for his efforts against apartheid. Either way, I hope this gets approved. I can't wait to see the story lines that come from it.

 

[Orphen]

I will say this on the Part of Apollo, and this is just dabbling in facts, a large party like the GA doesn't need a reason to brand you terrorists. It's like suddenly because you now potentially cause a detremental effect to the GA, they will take measures to ensure that you can't detroment them. You are inadvertantly causing an act of mass treason by pulling away at such a crucial time. and like you said to me. this would "crumble" the GA, therefore, it 'is' treason. Because your characters i assume would be smart enough to know the reppocussions of doing this.

I know they're not a 'terrorist party' but you dont need to be for another party to start calling you them. to make an analogy, I could call a skinny girl fat, it's not true, but i can say it to hurt her self esteem, and detroment her potential popularity in the ensuing angst, protecting me if she may have had the chance of detromenting my own popular status. This act however, can backfire, if other people see the truth that the girl isn't indeed heavy set. Then those parties band together.

If the GA call them deserters, actors of treason, and especially terrorists, all they have to do is come on top righteous, and not their claim at all, their claim backfires, and ends in you gaining additional support and the GA become the bad guy. I'd like to see Corellia, as it's SO DAMN CLOSE! just turn its fleet on corescaunt at take the mantle of head of the GA, that'd make it not only independant. but in the seat of all power. and make for a hell of a change of pace, as well as potentially acting as a catalyst and metaphor for the destruction of the oldways, and coming into the age of apollo!

But all up, this is why i hate politics and just like fighting people. ^_^

 

[Toska]

Wait, people are seriously misunderstanding something here. This faction doesn't take control of Corellia. It's a political action group, akin to America's Communist party. They are garnering interest with the hopes of eventually gaining enough IC support to remove Corellia from the Galactic Alliance. Essentially, it's an anti-war group. There's nothing about choosing sides. It would be almost impossible for regular citizens in a galaxy-spanning setting to mobilize enough support to end the war entirely, so groups like this are bound to pop up. For the Galactic Alliance to stomp it out of existence and brand the members terrorists... well, it would be taking a step towards totalitarianism.

Seriously, take a step back when you criticize things.

 

[Lavi]

The idea of independent faction has been to allow diversity without them significantly overcoming or crippling existing main factions. It had been an issue in the past, which was directly related to the creation of the majority of the rules that new indie factions had to follow. Bac does bring a valid point with the possibility of the main factions having its members create indie movements to neuter the major worlds of both sides. There is potential for a conflict of interest, as Vince does have a Sith character. I need to think about it for a while.

 

[Corrupt Justice]

He also has a Jedi character, which he hasn't even used yet, and both Sith and Jedi were created after his Independent character.

 

[Black Noise]

Has this been approved yet?

 

[Corrupt Justice]

No.

 

[Mars]

My Jedi is Corellian by legacy, even though he was born on Coruscant, and is probably someone this party would actually like. I'd be interested in having some talks once this gets going.

 

[Gaja]

My Jedi is also from Corellia, maybe sometime he'll actually go there and get involved with this, meet some of the members.

 

[Django]

No decision by Lavish yet? This could present a very interesting story to the Galactic Alliance. So far they haven't been necessarily winning the war against the Empire, and if systems began threatening (and achieving) independence it could be very bad for the faction. But yet still very appealing to watch happen.

 

[Lavi]

I've PM'd Vince about how to go about this, but I had not received a response.

 

[Django]

It does look like he has gone inactive, which is a shame.