Coruscant/Street: Friendly Showdown

[Valen Pelora]

Alright I'm not really sure how to respond to the latest post and I'm going to tackle this before @Irxirola Mishka goes. I think we are all well aware we have been "stretching" our use of the Force, combat, ext. because this is death disabled and just for fun. That being said, 70 strikes in under 10 secs is insanity. I don't think even the greatest Jedi/Sith to ever walk the galaxy could pull that off even under the most extreme circumstances. I'm talking the best of the best using every inch of their Force ability.

Even if we toss aside the general impossibility of this, even in a Star Wars universe, you don't really leave me with much of a way to respond. Granted, nothing is an "auto hit" but you tossed 70 strikes out there. The only possible way I could respond is if each of those strikes is written out, which it is not. We have certainly taken some liberties in this thread with exchanging blows because of the nature of thread. I firmly believe writing out exchanging a few blows between parties (see the posts involving Irx) is fine. 70 is a different story. That's more Lightsaber strikes than might happen in an entire duel.

My options are fairly limited in responding and frankly I'm at a loss. We are doing this for "drama" but there are still reasonable limits. Mainly, letting the other involved parties actually respond to attacks. Now, I understand if you don't want to edit and that's fine. This is death disabled, I'll get out of it but I really think stretching the rules shouldn't become there are no rules.

 

[TWD26]

My rain attack was also ignored in your post, which in my post said was directed towards all of the Sith on the battlefield. As for the rules on the autohits, it's against the rules even in a theater pvp session, unless the two members agree upon such hits to happen. All attacks need to be attempts. Similar to how in my last post, I stated that I had grabbed @The Living Daylights 's feet and attempted to trip him with an illusion while he was talking.

 

[Uleni]

Okay first off, @TWD26's attack wasn't ignored. In fact, quite the opposite; Pelinaryon had a side of his cheek scarred and the majority of his upper lips torn up. You can actually go back and read it again if you want.

Second, Valen is essentially one with the force at this stage, aka he achieved Oneness with it, a feat that only a few (Chosen Ones and Revans, really) in the galaxy could actually attain. Unless of course I'm misconstruing the phrase, "He was one with the Force. He was a maelstrom of light in the darkness." Oneness generally means you're on super steroids in regards to your force powers because you ARE the Force, and coupled with Valen's already strong connection to it, AND the aforementioned phrases I've quoted, and you have yourself a nuclear bomb in terms of raw firepower in this situation.

Plus, Obi-Wan, when he was One with the Force, managed to stonewall Grievous' attacks completely, which were a whopping twenty-strikes per second. Since Valen is in a similar state (unless of course, he isn't), then what's to stop him from doing the same?

 

[Uleni]

That said, I could still tone it down to like, 60 or 50. Possibly even 45. Keep in mind, Pelinaryon's most noticeable trait is his demonic speed. In this circumstance and his (admittedly) bloodthirsty frame of mind, I simply can't see him going lower than the last number.

 

[TWD26]

Okay first off, @TWD26's attack wasn't ignored. In fact, quite the opposite; Pelinaryon had a side of his cheek scarred and the majority of his upper lips torn up. You can actually go back and read it again if you want.

Second, Valen is essentially one with the force at this stage, aka he achieved Oneness with it, a feat that only a few (Chosen Ones and Revans, really) in the galaxy could actually attain. Unless of course I'm misconstruing the phrase, "He was one with the Force. He was a maelstrom of light in the darkness." Oneness generally means you're on super steroids in regards to your force powers because you ARE the Force, and coupled with Valen's already strong connection to it, AND the aforementioned phrases I've quoted, and you have yourself a nuclear bomb in terms of raw firepower in this situation.

Plus, Obi-Wan, when he was One with the Force, managed to stonewall Grievous' attacks completely, which were a whopping twenty-strikes per second. Since Valen is in a similar state (unless of course, he isn't), then what's to stop him from doing the same?

Sorry if I missed that bud.

 

[Valen Pelora]

I'm obviously not Obi-Wan (who falls into that category of greatest Jedi ever), and I'm not 100% where the blocking twenty-strikes per second comes from.
Regardless, that's clearly an extreme situation and I can't really think of other other canon examples. I'm thinking peak Luke from the Yuuzhan Vong war all the way through when legacy got created. I can't think of a singe instance of him exerting that kind of power, not even when fighting Abeloth.

We clearly have different thoughts on "one with the Force." I don't think it makes you this invincible being who can suddenly can go far outside normal abilities. Perhaps I should have toned down the hyperbole but I don't think I did anything on that level in the battle. The Force pushes and pulls were appropriately described as strong but not on an unusual level. I don't think anything has been done to indicate Valen is operating on some incredibly heightened plane. Simply put, I don't think "oneness" translate to "godliness." I wasn't lifting all the Sith off the ground or blowing over buildings.

Frankly, I don't even think that really matters. I would never base a post or an attack on what I think the other party could do. It's about what your character physically can do. I could be the single greatest fighter the galaxy ever saw, I could be peak Mace Windu or Count Dooku. Maybe, I am capable of fending off 70 strikes. That doesn't change the fact that is just doesn't seem possible for any character to EVER dole out that kind attack. Even 45 strikes in 10 secs is off the fracken rails. You're fitting in a little over 4 strikes every second, that assumes it's 10 secs, not "under 10 secs." There is a similar problem with 70 strikes. That's a 7 strikes every second. Even in a world of space wizards that's on another level.

The thread was working because we all exaggerated to a certain extent but it has mostly made sense. No one has gone too far. I think this firmly falls into the category of way too far. I thought we were far enough in to avoid any OOC drama. I honestly just can't wrap my mind around this.

 

[Uleni]

If you really can't wrap your head around this, then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't have thrown out such a delightful little passage of Valen being 'one with the force, a maelstrom of light' because someone out there (in this case, myself) just might take that as what it literally is; Oneness. Ask anyone here what Oneness means and they'll reply the same way I did; a super steroid boost on your powers, because you ARE the force. It IS you. It allowed a couple of legacy era Jedi to literally go ham on several thousands of Yuuzhan Vong, it allowed Bariss Offee to be (briefly) omnipresent during the Clone Wars.

It allowed Obi-Wan to block Grievous' twenty strikes per second offensive during their final duel in Utapau, as described and written in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. (You can google that if you want.)

So I apologize if I'm going to disregard your claims on Valen not really operating on another level, because what I quoted on my earlier post simply contradicts that. You can't be One with the force and simply be not uberpowerful. That's like saying a nuclear bomb can be used as a frag grenade.

Even if you claimed that your pushes or pulls were 'appropriately strong but not on an unusual level', it wouldn't matter because you're in a state of Oneness! Coupled with the fact that Valen's apparently strong in the Force, and maybe you could see why Pelinaryon was dragged across the ground before smashing into the wall. You see me complaining about that? I wanted to at first, but no, ultimately I even rolled with it.

In light of that and the examples I presented above (and below), you're going to label Pelinaryon's 7hits/1sec as going too far?

(Oh, and if you don't think anyone else can dole out that amount of strikes in so short a time, then EU!Darth Maul has bad news for you; he does ten thousand strikes, one hundred times a day WHILE STILL having time to do other stuff. That implies he strikes several times at mind-numbing speed just to complete the exercises. You can find it on Episode One Journal: Darth Maul. Don't get me started on Mace Windu and how he's so fast he literally blinked in and out of existence during his duel with Palpy (also described in RotS novelization).)

 

[Uleni]

I'm starting to see why PvP is apparently such a salty affair in this site. Apparently it's all about all give, no take. Go figure.

 

[Prudence]

I'm starting to see why PvP is apparently such a salty affair in this site. Apparently it's all about all give, no take. Go figure.

So I haven't read this whole OOC, but I can tell you that comments like this are inappropriate dude. You can keep it cool and discuss things without comments like this.

Oneness with the Force =/= super sayan / force steroids and I can definitely tell you that there is no way you're going to be able to deliver 70 strikes in 10 seconds.

 

[TWD26]

Like Prudence said, let's try and keep the bickering and personal attacks of this. This creates bad drama OOC between members, and this is meant to be fun after all. Since an OOC agreement cannot be reached, I've reported the post for a Moderator's ruling. In my personal opinion, it's not in good practice to ever land an autohit on another player, even if it's minor and it's a death disabled thread--and 70 autohits in one post is just not going to work.

 

[Uleni]

So I haven't read this whole OOC, but I can tell you that comments like this are inappropriate dude. You can keep it cool and discuss things without comments like this.

Oneness with the Force =/= super sayan / force steroids and I can definitely tell you that there is no way you're going to be able to deliver 70 strikes in 10 seconds.

I offered to tone it down to 40.

"Off the fracken rails."

Apparently in a world where there're superhuman monks who regularly make mockery of physics (who are also superfast, they're mini-Flashes in their own right) that's still overboard.

And Oneness does equate to having a major boost in force powers. Have you read what Jacen did to Onimi during their duel? What Ganner Rhysode did to those Yuuzhan Vong?

And where in goodness gracious does it state that those attacks were autohits? I'm going to wait for a little proof.

 

[Gamov]

And Oneness does equate to having a major boost in force powers. Have you read what Jacen did to Onimi during their duel? What Ganner Rhysode did to those Yuuzhan Vong?

Just going to chime in here real quick as it seems vocabulary, or rather a certain translation of vocabulary, seems to be a major stumbling block.

Oneness, as detailed in the article, is considered under normal circumstances (an important difference to take note of) to be achieved when a Force-user dies. Certainly there are examples of living Force-users attaining Oneness, but those are exceptions rather than the rule. And since I'm fairly certain there is a hard and fast rule against any of us being able to write this Timeline's Jacen Solo (see: godmode, metagaming, Gary Stu et al.), I believe "Oneness" as it is being described here will absolutely not be allowed to be a thing in any duel.

Certainly a character can focus their concentration to produce greater effects with the Force. But channeling the Force itself into them in order to "become the Force" won't be a thing you'll see under any but the most highly restricted circumstances (think major story changing event, for example).

 

[Arcangel]

If you really can't wrap your head around this, then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't have thrown out such a delightful little passage of Valen being 'one with the force, a maelstrom of light' because someone out there (in this case, myself) just might take that as what it literally is; Oneness. Ask anyone here what Oneness means and they'll reply the same way I did; a super steroid boost on your powers, because you ARE the force. It IS you. It allowed a couple of legacy era Jedi to literally go ham on several thousands of Yuuzhan Vong, it allowed Bariss Offee to be (briefly) omnipresent during the Clone Wars.

It allowed Obi-Wan to block Grievous' twenty strikes per second offensive during their final duel in Utapau, as described and written in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. (You can google that if you want.)

So I apologize if I'm going to disregard your claims on Valen not really operating on another level, because what I quoted on my earlier post simply contradicts that. You can't be One with the force and simply be not uberpowerful. That's like saying a nuclear bomb can be used as a frag grenade.

Even if you claimed that your pushes or pulls were 'appropriately strong but not on an unusual level', it wouldn't matter because you're in a state of Oneness! Coupled with the fact that Valen's apparently strong in the Force, and maybe you could see why Pelinaryon was dragged across the ground before smashing into the wall. You see me complaining about that? I wanted to at first, but no, ultimately I even rolled with it.

In light of that and the examples I presented above (and below), you're going to label Pelinaryon's 7hits/1sec as going too far?

(Oh, and if you don't think anyone else can dole out that amount of strikes in so short a time, then EU!Darth Maul has bad news for you; he does ten thousand strikes, one hundred times a day WHILE STILL having time to do other stuff. That implies he strikes several times at mind-numbing speed just to complete the exercises. You can find it on Episode One Journal: Darth Maul. Don't get me started on Mace Windu and how he's so fast he literally blinked in and out of existence during his duel with Palpy (also described in RotS novelization).)

I would like to chime in to say that all of these books are no longer canon. I will be reviewing this later, but do remember that the force in canon is no longer GODLY POWERS.

 

[Uleni]

Just going to chime in here real quick as it seems vocabulary, or rather a certain translation of vocabulary, seems to be a major stumbling block.

Oneness, as detailed in the article, is considered under normal circumstances (an important difference to take note of) to be achieved when a Force-user dies. Certainly there are examples of living Force-users attaining Oneness, but those are exceptions rather than the rule. And since I'm fairly certain there is a hard and fast rule against any of us being able to write this Timeline's Jacen Solo (see: godmode, metagaming, Gary Stu et al.), I believe "Oneness" as it is being described here will absolutely not be allowed to be a thing in any duel.

Certainly a character can focus their concentration to produce greater effects with the Force. But channeling the Force itself into them in order to "become the Force" won't be a thing you'll see under any but the most highly restricted circumstances (think major story changing event, for example).

"He drank in the Light Side and pushed far his limits. He was one with the Force, a maelstrom of Light surrounded by the Dark."

He's not dead and transcended to be a blue hologram, so ... that leaves only one thing, eh Big Boss? Maybe you should tell that to him and not to me?

I would like to chime in to say that all of these books are no longer canon. I will be reviewing this later, but do remember that the force in canon is no longer GODLY POWERS.

Then why oh why do we have a guy achieving Oneness, which in current canon, should be an esoteric art known only to a precious few?

 

[Valen Pelora]

I'd just like to clarify, when I used the term "oneness" I was not attempting to gain any "godlike" powers and I don't think I utilized it that way. The way I wrote it was Valen focusing himself and yes "pushing past his normal limits." He is a Jedi Knight who had been fighting on Coruscant for a pretty extended period of time, he is blowing past his normal limits to continue to fight.

I certainly did not intend to give the impression that I had achieved some overarching incredible power. In the thread, we have been exaggerating our use of the Force that is typically allowed because the fight was just for a lark. I did go beyond what would typically be allowed in PVP but not into a god mode realm. That was never my intent and I don't think any of the attacks were written that way.

 

[Uleni]

I'd just like to clarify, when I used the term "oneness" I was not attempting to gain any "godlike" powers and I don't think I utilized it that way. The way I wrote it was Valen focusing himself and yes "pushing past his normal limits." He is a Jedi Knight who had been fighting on Coruscant for a pretty extended period of time, he is blowing past his normal limits to continue to fight.

I certainly did not intend to give the impression that I had achieved some overarching incredible power. In the thread, we have been exaggerating our use of the Force that is typically allowed because the fight was just for a lark. I did go beyond what would typically be allowed in PVP but not into a god mode realm. That was never my intent and I don't think any of the attacks were written that way.

Like I said earlier, if you don't want people taking what you wrote for what apparently it isn't (even though it was described as such) then maybe you shouldn't throw it in the first place. Seriously, the combination of those descriptions you used (drank in the Light, pushed far his limits, one with the force, a maelstrom of Light) with 'one' being emphasized... Yeah, what else can people take from that but you achieving EU!Oneness?

 

[Uleni]

Meanwhile I'm still waiting on @TWD26 to point out where exactly in my post were those 70Hits written off as landing automatically.

 

[Valen Pelora]

Again, for clarification purposes. Even if I had attained supreme control over the Force I don't believe I wrote my attacks that way, or gave any indications besides (perhaps foolishly) using the word "one" for dramatic purposes. The first attack was "he pulled the Sith as hard as he could in the Force, enough to give Irx time to strike back." I don't think this indicated your character would go flying through the wall. I would have been perfectly happy with him stumbling away, giving Irx time to strike back. However, you wrote it as him being tossed aside. I did not step in to try and save Sigal when she was attacked, I specifically wrote there was nothing he could do. He couldn't throw up a Force barrier or run fast enough to block the lightning.

The second noted attacked was more forceful, but I don't believe indicated an otherworldly use of the Force. Your character "easily" sidestepped and dodged the attacks, which indicate to me you didn't think they were above normal either.

Arclight is reviewing everything so I don't think much more needs to said. I just want to point out I did not intend for the hyperbole or use of the word "one" to indicate I attained some higher level. I did not intent 1 sentence to color over a thousand words.

 

[Gamov]

He's not dead and transcended to be a blue hologram, so ... that leaves only one thing, eh Big Boss?

Or if you're uncertain about the content of a person's post, you could always ask them directly what they meant.

It's certainly better than assuming. Assumptions lead to trouble.

 

[Valen Pelora]

Or if you're uncertain about the content of a person's post, you could always ask them directly what they meant.

It's certainly better than assuming. Assumptions lead to trouble.

Which I think has happened here.