Deadpool (Movie)

[The Derp of Hooves]

I have to disagree with you there, while yes there have been horrible movies in the genre (yes live action super hero movies are a genre imo) such as batman and robin, green lantern, the new fantastic four, among others, the genre itself is not horrible or cancerous. Imo the whole genre has cemented itself as B-Movie thing rather than mainstream. If you go into a live action super hero flick with the mind that it's a b-movie rather than mainstream, I think they'll be much more enjoyable. Even those with a large production value such as the avengers or guarduans have a b-movie feel to them than not.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

He's not arguing that they don't have the ability to be enjoyed in some manner, he is stating that critically the movies themselves are not good in terms of how the film was made.

I do agree that while I also enjoy the movies immensely the movies themselves are mostly shallow fan service and when it comes to the MCU they largely also follow a similar formula for each film.

 

[Grumpy_Duck]

I think too many people are trying to read too much into movies nowdays. I may be showing my simplistic side, but I enjoy going to the movies just for some popcorn fun.
Unless it causes me a headache (eg. 3D and overuse of shaky-cam) then I couldn't really care less how "well-made" it is. If we look at it objectively, comic movies are getting better each year. I'll even count it as a win that there's enough comic movies out there that we have the start of a genre.
Go back a few years and the concept of a movie based on a comic was unheard of, so of course there's going to be some growing pains...

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

You are completely fine just wanting to go to a movie and turning your brain off, but that is a personal choice and just as that view isn't discredited by another neither is the more critical style of viewing movies. Quite a few people enjoy analyzing, deconstructing, and playing with the parts of any film good or bad and seeing what worked, what didn't work, and what they can take away from the film. I've found doing these things have really helped me grow as a writer.

Per "comic book movies getting better each year" that is really a subjective statement. Are you judging that by revenue or opening week gain? Because that's just not true. Are you judging it by personal enjoyment? That is also untrue for a lot of people since that presumes, for example, Ant-Man, Fantastic Four, and Age of Ultron are better than any of the comic book films that came before them. As someone whose favorite super hero movie came out more than a decade ago that idea definitely doesn't hold water.

It's not a matter of growing pains to me, because with the people who are behind these for all intents and purposes have been attached to other great works. The concept of a superhero movie isn't some djinni in a bottle at this juncture, the code has been cracked. It's just that looking at Marvel Studios their movies are all pretty much the same (they follow the same formula), DC's movies seem to be taking a very boring dark and gritty approach (gray/brown color palette and trying to be edgey), and everything else in between seems to be hit or miss with what Fox and Sony produced (X-Men series for example).

 

[Phil]

"Quite a few people enjoy analyzing, deconstructing, and playing with the parts of any film good or bad and seeing what worked, what didn't work, and what they can take away from the film."

That destroys the magic of the films for me, but I suppose to each their own. People tend to love to do that here now I noticed.

Also, this newest Fantastic Four did not do better then the last ones. Not by a long shot.

 

[The Derp of Hooves]

#agree with @Phil 100% anyways speaking of old favorite superhero movies mine was Superman 1 and the Tim Burton Batmans, back on track, @Johnnysaurus Rex that's sort of what I was disagreeing with. Like in every genre there have been excellent movies made, both Thor movies I thought were well done for instance and horrible ones. I don't think that live action super hero movies are just fan service, granted since I was young I've been wanting to see my favorite heroes on the silver screen in live action.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

That destroys the magic of the films for me, but I suppose to each their own. People tend to love to do that here now I noticed.

That is to be expected from a site full of writers.

that's sort of what I was disagreeing with. Like in every genre there have been excellent movies made, both Thor movies I thought were well done for instance and horrible ones. I don't think that live action super hero movies are just fan service, granted since I was young I've been wanting to see my favorite heroes on the silver screen in live action.

Your statement was "If you go into a live action super hero flick with the mind that it's a b-movie rather than mainstream, I think they'll be much more enjoyable". So you were most definitely disagreeing with him on the basis of enjoyment as opposed to, as I pointed out, "He's not arguing that they don't have the ability to be enjoyed in some manner, he is stating that critically the movies themselves are not good in terms of how the film was made." The notion of 'just lower your standards' is also a non-argument when it comes to critical quality. It leads to a comic book movie market where the movies produced only have to be made for the lowest common denominator which actually contributes to Prospero's argument of the films being "cancerous".

I am not saying there exist no movies in the series that aren't or couldn't be considered good from a film making perspective (Spider-Man 2 and Winter Soldier spring to mind), I am saying the vast majority are uninspired (Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man), take themselves too seriously and mire themselves in an overly angsty narrative (majority of the Batman films and Man of Steel), just plain bad (X-Men 3, X-Men Origins, Spider-Man 3, Green Lantern), or as you said are B-movies (Blade, Ghost Rider, Punisher). I do not hate these movies (aside from 2 or 3 of them) and in fact X-Men 3 is my favorite of the original three films, but I recognize it is a bad movie.

The Marvel movies are almost the very definition of fan service. They are filled to the brim with nods and easter eggs that consistently after one comes out I can't go onto any pop culture site without seeing articles titled "All the Easter Eggs in [x]" or "What the end credits scene actually means!" these are all things that are put into the films for comic readers or people who have looked up the comic book lore. It is SERVICE to the FANS. I eat it up too, but by no means are they throwing it in there to deepen and expand their narrative for the majority of their audience which are non-comic book fans.

 

[The Derp of Hooves]

Point taken however I was trying to convey that I was disagreeing with the fact that in his original post he stated that there were no good movies in the genre. Yes the vast majority of the films are fan service but anything with an extended universe could be considered thus. In my opinion what makes a super hero movie great is when they take from the source material and stay true to the characters instead of ignoring them.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Fair enough, I must have missed that part.

I'd rather comic book movies start going away from it. Part of what is really burning me out on the comic book movies is I already know everything that is going to happen since I've read most of these stories already. That and some aspects of comics and character lore (Carol Danvers is one of my favorite characters but her backstory in the main universe is largely trash) are kind of hokey.

 

[Grumpy_Duck]

But if you move the movies away from the plots that define the character, then whats the point in having a comic movie? They just change the names and it becomes "action/ sci-fi movie #315".
A lot of the appeal of comic movies is seeing your favourite storylines brought to life on the big screen, as well as being able to be included on the easter eggs and in-jokes.
As for my earlier statement about comic movies getting better I stand by it. I didn't mean it in an empirical sense, just that there's constant improvement being made. Either in graphics, cinematography, acting or even just in the increasing range of titles we're seeing now. Of course there's some bad movies now and good movies back then. I'll admit that I'm not really in the mindset at the moment to articulate what I mean, but at the basic level there's no longer the subconscious cringe from the earlier comic movies. The first ones all had it in some form of "I know its based on a comic, but..." whereas now its accepted that the story or character happened to come from a comic.
(Apologies for any rambling/ nonsensical sentences)

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Except the adapted storylines are already non-character defining. Hell the only one that I can think of that would be without a doubt was Ultron and the character that is for wasn't even in the movie. There are very few comics that are "necessary" for a character. If at all. Many of them have been around for half a century at this point and through myriad retcons, reimaginings, and reworks. For example, Peter Parker hasn't been a whiny high schooler who takes pictures for an abusive boss for years. The characters in the movies themselves are amalgamations of their 616 and Ultimate Universe stories (thankfully cutting out a large part of the Ultimate universe dark/edgy) so some idea that the characters need to "stay true" to something is largely not there.

Per fan service, that may be fine for you and as I stated I am not immune from its charm, but the problem is they've started swapping out substance with service. Perfect example was Age of Ultron and Baron von Strucker. Included in post credits scenes to get people hyped for his inclusion and then dealt with right at the beginning of Age of Ultron before being killed off screen. There is nothing substantial about him other than he has the name of a traditional Captain America villain and that is all.

As for your last point I am having a hard time trying to find your point, but to your credit you admit to it being nonsensical. Okay so the movies are looking better, there are more of them, and super hero movies are more accepted? So what? By your own admission they are still churning out bad films and even with good actors (Andrew Garfield and Michael B. Jordan) we get bad films so what does this change in superficial quality do? Get me the best bread you can find, gourmet cheese, the lightest butter, and someone who knows their way around a skillet but it's still going to taste like shit when they burn it.

 

[Grumpy_Duck]

I don't know, maybe I'm just trying to see the glass as half full. But I remember when the first Superman movie was held up as the be all & end all of comic movies. Sure it was awesome for its time, but if you go back and watch it today it has bits that haven't aged well at all. That doesn't mean its bad, just that movies have progressed since it came out.
Now put it up against The Winter Soldier for example, and that's what I'm getting at. Winter Soldier is a great movie that happens to be a comic movie. Whereas when Superman came out it was classed as a great movie despite being a comic movie.
What I'm trying to get at is that comic movies are more readily accepted so they can focus more on telling good stories. The effects are improving, (broadly speaking) the stories are getting better, the costumes are almost the same as on the drawn page now.
That's all I'm saying, of course there's going to be bad movies, that happens in all genres. Yes it is a subjective statement on my behalf, but I do think they are improving as a genre.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Yes it is a subjective statement on my behalf, but I do think they are improving as a genre.

Cool, since this topic was all about the objective I accept your concession.

 

[Phil]

For someone who is not really a fan of the characer or comics, I really enjoyed this film. Ryan Reynolds was perfect for it.

 

[Oreus]

Great movie. Very crude. Very deadpool. It was the perfect actor for it indeed. Loved the after credits extra too.

 

[Miz]

The pacing was surprisingly well done.