Felucia - Dirty Tactics OOC

[Flamjetxx]

That was my mistake completely regarding the leaping action. But still, you never stated he utilized the Force to leap. And pertaining to the justifications of using the Force with everyday activities such as leaping from trees, implying he used the Force, sure can be a simple implication. But it is just as easily implicated that he would never need to use the Force to leap from the tree. And given the circumstances that your character noticed explicitly that Troapa was closer to him, and combined with the fact that you never said that he used the Force, it is a MUCH more likely chance that your character did not use the Force. And if we are going off the implications of using the Force in everyday activities, who's to say that you weren't using the Force to enhance your speed to travel all the way up the hill and into the tree in the first place? That would lead your character quite fatigued, wouldn't you agree?

Now, giving the Force push sent towards Troapa, I admit that even with everything going on emotionally etc within Troapa's mind, I still stated directly that it would be very abrupt, and that it would rip him backwards (more details on that to come). Now, clearly knowing that your character would be jumping to cut off Troapa (it having been stated that your character landed in front of Troapa), it would make perfect sense that he'd be jumping towards Troapa (although even as I type it, facing any other direction before landing in front of Troapa would likely leave him unable to land facing Troapa). That means that being wrenched backwards as abruptly as I stated would make it next to impossible to get off any relatively decent Force push in his direction, considering he'd be backwards and upside down by the time he'd need to get it off. And seeing that he cannot get the attack off before Troapa's attack gets off (as that would be metagaming), he'd be moving while trying to get off the push, meaning that directing it would be, again, next to impossible. I would argue that the Force push would miss completely, seeing how hard he'd have to concentrate during an inertia-heavy Force attack, how he'd be moving while trying to hit a target, and how his very ability to even see his target would be non-exsistent (either due to the inertia lurching his head/neck and due to his body rotating to leave him without the ability to focus on his target). It should also be noted that it would be metagaming to know precisely how Troapa is attacking him with the Force, let alone being able to process it in the time of sensing the Force ability and being effected by it. That means there is no physical way he can adjust his own body to account for being lurched backwards in order to accurately aim a Force push during/after Troapa's attack.

Now, onto the Pull itself. I should start off now by saying that before you post, you ALWAYS have the ability to ask your opponent how it is they utilized their attacks, or to ask them for a full breakdown of their post. As I did mention that the Force attack ripped your charrie backwards, I also went into great detail describing how to account for this exact situation from being mistaken. I said that he was ripped form an upright position, forced to look only at the sky, but I also went into further detail (if I'm not mistake immediately after) into describing how his head and neck were "the Spear Point" towards the ground. That means that there really shouldn't be too much confusion as to the difference between being thrown from being simply thrust backwards versus being pulled to the ground from the clavicles down, removing him from an upright position.

Something else I want to point out is that Troapa utilized his attack AFTER your charrie left the tree and was in mid air. That means that he'd almost certainly be able to account for him having leapt and be able to direct him towards his choice target on the ground, this being the fallen tree. And since that is the only action occurring to your charrie while in mid air after jumping, his trajectory wouldn't change by what you'd posted in your post. This point, btw, is being strengthened, but not necessarily thwarted by the fact that your charrie did Not in fact use the Force to enhance his Leap from the tree, meaning that it would be extremely easy to account for an ordinary leap form the tree in adjusting his trajectory towards the target. I also want to point out here that Troapa would only take an instant in using the Force to direct the direction of the fall, meaning that even if a Force push got off, it would almost certainly not change the trajectory towards the fallen tree, despite Troapa not constantly directing his fall.

Finally, I just wanted to clear up the notion that Troapa is predicting attacks. This is Not the case. When I said above the I predicted your charrie's attack, I mean that I, the writer, predicted that you, the writer, was going to use a Force push to try to thwart Troapa's attack, which is why I have this plethora of reasons above as to why your charrie's fate is sealed.

 

[Elijah Brockway]

Alright, now I'm back from rehearsal, and able to respond:

Regarding leaping with the Force vs. not with the Force - like I said, he's a highly trained Jedi who would be ready and able to use the Force as-needed, knowing he's going into a fight. So, as such, whether or not he leaped with the Force is a non-issue, so instead I'll agree with you and say he didn't (as, after all, you are correct that I did not state such in my post. Whoopsie).

Given the Force push against Troapa compared to the apparent sudden-ness of Troapa's attack - you state that you gripped my character and ripped him backwards as he was midair, and that that caused him to turn. However, as I said before, there's a known precendent in both canons wherein one Forceful being can sense when another is using the Force, which Sihkar, being as-he-is in battle, would associate that with an attack, and immediately move to counter it, at around the same time as he would be feeling the pressure of Troapa's grip begin to close down upon him and start him to move. It would still move him, I'm not disputing that - after all, I left that in my post for a reason - but the argument that there'd be no time at all for him to react regarding how abrupt it is, or that I'd be metagaming if I said he "foresaw the attack" (which I didn't say) doesn't hold water. Nothing is completely instant regarding the Force or any other action, and has never been shown to be in any of the writing we've been given up to this point, either legends or new. As well, I would argue that a rather indiscriminate (albeit still slightly small) wave of telekinetic energy sent in Troapa's direction (as I described it; I did say push as well, afterwards, due to the sheer fact that it would, indeed, shove him around if it hit him) wouldn't miss, given that, as I said, it is directed not specifically at him, but at the direction he was in, and it was already whipping up stuff from the ground by the time it would have reached him, as I said in my post. Beyond that, it's not unrealistic for him to be able to direct the push enough anyways to make sure it hits Troapa - after all, people in real life have shown similar abilities to be able to direct attacks and the like while moving, even when flying backwards and starting to lose sight of their opponent; given that this is a directional wave rather than a pinpoint sort of push or punch or projectile attack, it makes sense that it would hit Troapa. (Also, as a clarification: I say "force push" now because based on memory that's the closest thing that this attack is, given that from what I remember of the technique that [I think] was called "force wave" is more omnidirectional.) Other than that, it was also described as kicking up dirt, mud, and other detritus, which would obscure Troapa's line of sight and still present an issue for him, which would disrupt his concentration as well.

Regarding what you said about how I always have the option to contact you and ask exactly how you did what you did: Believe it or not (it's probably hard to believe, I know), I honestly thought I completely understood what you were getting at. That understanding was this: Troapa grips my character with the Force, starting by ripping him backwards. This begins to move my character in a parabolic arc, first turning him and moving him so that at the apex of the turn he was facing upwards, back to the ground, and then he was pulled downwards against where the parabolic arc would continue to take him, directed like a downwards spear point into the tree. Sihkar's quick reaction to being gripped and move - the aforementioned directed telekinetic wave - was then supposed to force (haha, punny) Troapa to lose his concentration whilst Sihkar was near the apex of the arc, allowing him to continue along the arc he'd been at unimpeded, rather than the force that had been imparted to him being redirected to send him then plummeting nearly straight down into a tree. Apparently, it appears as though you meant something different, and that Sihkar was simply continually being guided along that arc, but it didn't and still doesn't read like that to me.

Which brings me on to another point. You're attacking a moving target that is falling through the air from a tree, when at first your character was focused on Shae, and then proceeded to let whatever other facet/split personality/what-have-you within him take control, and then noticed the grenade and Shae's thrown knives, before anything was done. And apparently, your character is so profoundly able to focus to not only grip mine's torso, but specifically his clavicles/shoulders (a rather small portion of his body that would be difficult to focus on given any real distance between them coupled with Sihkar's movement) and rip him backwards; and yet, my character, a trained fighter and able to recognize that he is being attacked and is able (as just about anybody is, especially a trained and experienced fighter) to compensate for that and his movement via a quick reaction and a directional (rather than pinpoint, which I do agree would likely miss completely) attack, apparently has no ability to do this, when for all intents and purposes, the level of sudden surprise between the two of them should be about equal, considering Troapa would have to take the time to look around, find Sihkar, access the force, focus upon Sihkar rather heavily for a small moving target like his clavicles rather than his torso specifically (which would arguably require more concentration than would a wave of energy directed at Troapa and the area around him, rather than specifically aimed at any part of Troapa himself), and grab him with the Force and then move him around, as well as having to have taken the time to locate the tree which was the target for Sihkar, which would leave Sihkar with time enough - given the enhanced reactions that are common to Forceful beings in this galaxy (which would also explain how your character was fast enough to do all that before Sihkar landed) - to react accordingly to what was happening.

Also, regarding the tree, if you say that Sihkar was simply going to be directed at the ground and that the tree being in the way was a happy accident, then I'm going to say that that is just rather strangely convenient and coincidental. But I only include this here because I'm a cynical, paranoid person who has heard similar arguments in the past, so in the case that it is made (if, indeed, it is at all), huzzah I've already said something about it.

Beyond that - if your understanding was that Sihkar's trajectory from the apex of the arc alone without guidance would carry him into the tree even after Troapa's grip and concentration were disrupted, then I'm fully willing to edit that. Which leads me into my next point - I had numerous different ideas for what I could use to counter the attack given/protect Sihkar, not just the Force Push. If you'd rather, I could always edit my response away from the Force Push and instead into one of those other ideas I had.

Which brings me to my final point, your last paragraph there - congratulations, you accurately predicted one of the strategies I could (and in this case, did) use to counter your attack. However, your tone there reads rather smug - in case you did actually mean it that way, I advise you don't talk down to your fellow writers. It's a good way to make them mad at you. =P Regardless, my character's fate really isn't sealed, and I'm fully willing to continue arguing as to why if you wish to continue with this topic.

 

[Phoenix]

Isn't this thread over now anyways? It was put up on the 15th so it ended yesterday, did it not?

 

[Arcangel]

Wasnt there a delay to deal with who was going to replace Lamper?

 

[Phoenix]

Idk but like i said as soon as Lamper dropped out, i can't really keep it going or postpone past the deadline because of IRL stuff

Edit: Also about this OOCi didn't read all of the OOC stuff here as to the force push, but i do think it's implied that the force was being used in the drop. My two cents

 

[Oreus]

You can't just say "If he does this I do this, but if he does this, I do this." Your character does an action, he responds, and you respond to that. You don't predict a counter and say it's not possible because I said so. Attacks are not to be unavoidable per the rules. What you're saying is that your attack can't be blocked because of your fluff thought and he was in the air? Not going to fly. Feel free to take it to admins if can't agree to keep fighting. Per Manaan rules it should close soon though we did pause a bit for Lamper but still. If you want to close it for an admin review, report the thread. You know the drill.

 

[Sreeya]

Jesus Christ. Can you guys please use little bullet points to make your arguments? The wall of text bs is getting out of control.

We leaving this to admins or what?

 

[Green Ranger]

Sicne this has been reported due out time out, I'll have a ruled outcome shortly. I'll probably be making some general comments on the thread as well, as I feel some feedback could be useful here.

 

[Green Ranger]

Okay, so ruling time.

Hey @Flamjetxx, do you think you could at least, in the future, bold/otherwise highlight your actual PvP in 1your posts? I'm not trying to be insulting here, but assuming that your posts stay similar to what the last couple have been like, I foresee that trawling through your posts to find the bit that actually relates to the fighting going on might be somewhat difficult, and I'd rather not run the risk that I miss something because of the sheer density you write with.

@Flamjetxx First off, I want to start by saying this is a pretty reasonable request. I mean, when you have 1700+ words for a post that, in terms of PvP actions, equates to 'I ignite my lightsaber', then there it's perfectly reasonable to someone to ask for more clarity on the thread. There's nothing wrong with long posts, don't get me wrong, but in terms of battles and combat, actions can be easily lost in a post of that kind of length, and it makes it difficult for other participants in the thread - allies and opponents alike - to fully understand the key actions that relate to them. Remember, clarity is the utmost priority in combat, so if you prefer longer posts, then it's good sportsmanship to ensure that the actions within those posts are easily discernible.

Another point, and that's OOC discussion. Again, clarity. Sreeya made a valid point about the whole 'stop writing essays to argue points' thing. Battles are on a time limit, after all. All that time you guys spent arguing your points is time that burns into the IC progress of the thread. Make brief statements or dot point. Refute and rebut a couple of times. If you can't come to a resolution amongst yourselves quickly, report it ASAP or discuss a compromise in order to keep the thread moving. This is especially important when you have a change-up in the participants due to extenuating circumstances like Lamper's.

The alternative is basically what's happened in this thread, and that's really...not much at all. A NPC Rancor got blown up by mines, One arrow was fired, a grenade went off...and that's about it really. There's the nonsense about the telekinesis that caused things to really get bogged down, which, frankly, is a silly argument - if Flamjetxx can sit there and perform a finessed and well-controlled grip on Elijah, then it's perfectly reasonable for Elijah to fling off a wild burst of telekinetic energy to disrupt it. Otherwise we go back to gripping someone with the Force being OP since, so long as you phrase it right, it's effectively unblockable and unbreakable...and that's just not going to fly.

Anyway, the ultimate ruling on the thread more or less boils down to the actions taken in the thread...or in this case, lack thereof. I can't reasonable rule in favor of either side, since nothing really crucial enough occurred to give one side an advantage that could be considered to determine eventual victory.

I'm going to rule this thread as a tie, with all participants withdrawing safe and more or less unharmed. This means that the other two battles will have to be victories for one side or the other to determine a victor. If not, then the region will remain contested and both sides will have to perform new missions in order to stage a second attack.

 

[Flamjetxx]

I don't disagree with the ruling on the thread at all, and want nothing changed, but I just want to ask something that is very pertinent:

Isn't it the exact point of PvP to word things perfectly so that they cannot be combatted? And I am sorry about using the Force to grip someone, as I thought it was only not allowed against non-forcefuls. I will re-read the rules to avoid this from happenning.

Finally, I will begin making OOC comments on my pvp posts, breaking down all the informatin I feel is exactly pertinent to the pvp although I greatly cherish the entirety of a post, and I feel like there is mr in each post that is important enough to not be left out of a generalized OOC breakdown. In short, I cannot be held responsible for someone opting to ONLY read my OOC breakdown and claiming that it is my fault for missing something- whoch is my biggest fear.

Thank You for your tips and advice, and it can be said that you can indeed learn somethng every day, no matter how much you think you know about something.
@Green Ranger

 

[Green Ranger]

To that I'd suggest (based on your posts) that you're confusing meticulous and often extraneous detail with clarity. Like I said above, when you have 1700+ words that can be summarized (in terms of relevant information to the 'action' of the thread) into 'He ignited his lightsaber', then it's problematic.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with long posts, so long as the action information is clear. Maybe you could re-structure your posts so that the inner monologue section and the action section are seperate? Start with thoughts and internal reactions, and then conclude with actions? It's just one of...several suggestions I could make, but have a look at how other RPers post in battles, with an emphasis on action clarity, and try and find a way for you to work that into your posting structure that allows you to maintain your writing style, but also ticks the box of clarity and succinctness that other members utilize.

Food for thought.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks @Green Ranger for the ruling.

@Sreeya @Flamjetxx @Elijah Brockway it's kinda too bad this got cut short, but maybe we'll face off again in a thread that's full length.