Ferguson

[Rune]

So the broken eye socket theory is false. Discuss.

I'm so surprised an article that was shared on right-wing nutjob "news" sites (that the professional and credible news media never touched) was proven to be false. Surprised I tell you.

Seriously though, none of you believed that for a second right?

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Someone mind linking the story and where it was proven false? Whose eye socket was broken? One of the protestors or one of the cops or one of the media?

 

[jpchewy01]

Someone mind linking the story and where it was proven false? Whose eye socket was broken? One of the protestors or one of the cops or one of the media?

I was just watching CNN with Laurent. There was a story circulating around right wing blogs that Wilson's eye socket was broken in his encounter with Brown. That's not true. His eye was slightly swollen from an unknown reason.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I was just watching CNN with Laurent. There was a story circulating around right wing blogs that Wilson's eye socket was broken in his encounter with Brown. That's not true. His eye was slightly swollen from an unknown reason.

Well that's a relief I suppose? Though it just is more nonsense rumors amongst a sea of nonsense rumors, at least they're starting to be thinned out.

 

[jpchewy01]

Well that's a relief I suppose?

Relief in the sense that it doesn't bode well for Wilson?

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Relief in the sense that it doesn't bode well for Wilson?

Just that rumors are getting squashed.

I don't much care what happens until the independent and fbi investigations conclude. As I said earlier, it'll all be nothing but speculation until then, for either browns side or wilsons side.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I’m not a fan of the idea that we need to wait for an official investigation, and that somehow any discussion before the official report is invalid. That is a very white-centric, privileged view to take that discounts the life experiences of African Americans. You didn't outright say that, but you implicitly said it based on the stance that you're taking.

You can only believe official reports if you look at authority from a position of trust. Whether it’s the Ferguson police, the FBI, an independent report, or whatever, it’s all going to come from somewhere within a system that has been institutionally and often outwardly racist towards black people. Suggesting that someone should wait for all the so-called “facts” is asking them to trust a system that regularly shows how broken it is. You are taking an ideological position and wrapping it up in a false sense of wisdom and objectivity. Even if good people who want justice put the official report together, what you’re saying is a power play that ignores the racism inherent in this situation.

I think you’re coming from a well-intentioned place, so don’t get me wrong, but you’re dismissing the views and grievances of the oppressed and giving the benefit of the doubt to those who have not earned it. That applies to everyone from a low-level cop in Ferguson all the way to the Attorney General and the President of the United States.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

-snip-

So because I'm not black and don't automatically go 100% behind every african american at furgeson, I'm racist because I'm playing into a systematic system of skepticism against african americans. Oh I'm sorry, I meant just "white centric, privileged view" of things, simply for not agreeing what your opinion of jumping head first without anything to go on.

I wasn't at furgeson, I never meet Mike Brown, I never meet Officer Wilson, I've never been to Missouri, I don't have the police report, I'm not an eye witness, I neither have forensic training nor have seen mike browns body, I'm not a mind reader so I can't determine the individual motivations of the people involved in the protests or police, I don't have omnipresence to see everything going on there, and I very much doubt you have either.

So no, just because the report comes from a system that you put forth as inherently racist, doesn't mean that it doesn't matter and that your theory is correct. You don't get more accurate just because you think you don't have a bias. The people who are part of the system you don't like, have the education, experience, training, basically the qualifications needed to actually rule on this with more then a guesstimate, which is what you and everyone else in this thread has been doing and passing off as being legitimately correct.

Tell me how the protesters earned the benefit of the doubt? Tell me what qualifications they have in forensic science, ballistics, chemical testing, information gathering, and in terms of resources that makes them more trustworthy then the people doing the official investigation.

And where, pray tell, are you supposed to get actual information about this, if apparently you can trust no one with proper qualifications that would make them experts in this field, because they didn't earn it, because they earned those qualifications in an inherently racist system? Eye witness accounts that have not only contradicted one another but that you yourself said to ignore when it didn't suit the narrative you wanted?

I think you come from a good place as well, you care about finding a truth untainted by biases and racism that brings actual justice to this case. And, you have a great urge not to just sit down and accept whatever information given, but to be proactive in analysis and trying to figure things out, at least to me it seems this way. Heck I am probably being way too harsh then I need to be, but I can't help but feel you've been just calling people racist for the simple fact that they don't agree with your world view.

Addendum*: Re-reading this, its a lot harsher then I'd have liked it to come out, and angrier too. Been a rough week truth be told with a roommate going through some emotional crap from their childhood and dumping it on me every day so that I can play psychiatrist and life coach for them, and I think it's starting to wear on me a bit. Honestly do think this to an extent, though the last part is whiny as all hell ((feel free to mock it, I wouldn't blame you.)). I am sorry for how it came out, cause its just full of unnecessary anger, but not gonna delete it cause that seems like a even worse move to make, I typed it so I should stand by it.

 

[jpchewy01]

We may not have met these people but we can recognise their archetypes, tropes that are played out over and over again in American history. Wilson and Brown are actors in a national drama that has played out over and over again for decades, even centuries. The reason why we can say the things we have said about this case is that it's happened before. Over and over. Black men are continually the victims of police brutality. It doesn't matter if they've committed a crime or if they were rude to the cop or any of that. You've said it before, Bron. We live in a country that values the notion of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It's bad enough that the courts are skewed against black people (if they don't get shot in the head before they reach court). The people in the system may have education and experience and whatnot but they also have an interest and investment in keeping their system (and their jobs) alive. We've seen this plenty of times before; I'm sure a lot of the guys who voted in favour of Jim Crow had college degrees.

You ask why the protesters should be given the benefit of the doubt in this situation? That's a simple answer, because they have historically been denied that benefit, for one thing. On top of that, the response to the protests (tanks, tear gas, etc) was completely disproportionate. A group of armed racist white guys in Nevada forced the federal government to retreat. A group of unarmed black people gather to protest a wrongful killing is treated like it's 1965. How can you still not see that this situation is being guided by institutionalised racism?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-rele...port-on-death-of-michael-brown-221844542.html

Yes, let's wait for the official report. That will help, right?

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Because thats the independent and fbi report right?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The point is that there's very little reason to trust these reports, because the powers that be have not earned that trust.

 

[Kaeb]

This whole consistent attempt to cover their own asses would be laughable if it wasn't so downright abhorrent.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/st-louis-county-cop-online-rant-suspended

Jesus.

(with apologies to Jesus)

EDIT: this goes more in-depth with what this guy said: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/...fired-after-video-of-his-racist-rant-emerges/

 

[Kaeb]

This whole thing has gone beyond the bounds of reason at this point, how is this still being allowed to take place?

The power needs to be taken away from those misusing it here, because time and time again it's been proven that that is exactly what they're doing.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I would be OK with the federal government stepping in at this point. They're no angels either, but when it comes to race-based civil rights issues, it's state and local governments that have consistently been the worst offenders. The federal government has had to step in on more than one occasion for stuff like this.

 

[Kaeb]

To be honest, I wouldn't be okay with any more authoritative power stepping in, people manipulating their power seems to be the inherent problem in the first place.

When Captain Ron Johnson stepped in, a calming influence was indeed permeated throughout the Ferguson community initially, at least that's what most cross referenced reports appear to indicate, because he actually approached the situation with an involved/human perspective. Holder's speech on the matter certainly echoed that incentive, but I'm worried about more power coming in because their track record isn't exactly glowing either. Your entire government is pretty ****ed up tbh.

I wish their was an avenue that could be taken wherein more power is given back to the community itself to ensure the peacefulness of their own protests, but the few idiots causing trouble might take advantage of that situation.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

When I say I would be OK with the federal government stepping in, I don't mean to be the new force during protests. I mean specifically to push the state and local governments back to where they belong, and just end this entire thing. Like, for example, how President Kennedy federalized the Alabama National Guard in 1963 to complete the desegregation at the University of Alabama and make George Wallace GTFO of the way.

But I don't foresee that happening, since President Obama has generally shied away from situations that would draw attention to him as "the black president."

 

[Kaeb]

Even that worries me, because this protest for all intents and purposes, seems to be evolving into a protest about grander narratives than what has taken place specifically in this instance, it's important to let the protest continue, but to continue unabated and not pressured by an form of authority, unless of course elements of that protest become unruly.

I just want them to have their space, undisturbed, I want the idiots currently in charge kicked out and punished for their indiscretion and then I want real action to be taken to combat the issue, but it won't be, because it's such a systemic issue that it'll take a stagnant organisation like your government decades to truly address it, if that even happens.

 

[Sovereign]

I trust the Justice Department more than that racist prosecutor and those racist, white jurors from St. Louis. The Grand Jury is bullshit. It's too secretive and nothing is going to get done. They need to pass new laws to change the way cops are prosecuted, and that can only happen at the state level. Cops shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when they shoot someone.

Also, the whole "judged by a jury of your peers" process needs to change. If you're black, and you're judged by white people, then that is not a "jury of your peers." You can't trust white people with these things.