Force Powers

[Wit]

So my barely trained, emo and edgy as hell, padawan can no longer unleash thirty nine bolts of Force Lightening while running around at the speed of sound and telekinetically lifting a Death Star over my opponent's head? I'm sorry to say this but these rules are just too restrictive, there's a point where too much control takes the fun away from anything. If my profile says that my Jedi was born under the influence of a magenta moon that turned him cyan and gave him unparalleled Force powers then I should be able to use him like that. This place sucks, I'm leaving.

 

[Beta12]

@Green Ranger
Just a small question I've come up with in between lectures, but is there a sort of gray Jedi equivalent, or some sort of balance that can be used while tapping into the force. I've noticed both the dark and light sides have their own unique effects, but what would happen if someone were to dabble into both like Mace Windu? Or to a more extreme e tent a gray Jedi or other exotic sect. Could there be a mix of corruption or restorative properties based on the arts used?

 

[Lamper]

Will there be a guide for helping members understand what Force usage is realistic for more novice characters compared to more experienced characters? To say that certain powers or manifestations of powers are likely beyond characters younger in the Force, or at least will not be as powerful as the same power expressed by a more experienced character. Or will that more or less be left to the discretion - to be judged by - the receiver of the Force power to say how impactful it was received?

 

[Aberforth]

Using the Force to amplify sound waves seems like it'd fall under energy manipulation to me.

Technically, shouldn't it fall under telekinesis? I mean, sound is not really energy. Its is a vibration through matter. Not much different than an earthquake, just on an other scale. #physics

Anyway, I really like what you came up with. Can't wait to see people getting creative with these! Keep up the good work.

 

[K-97]

I like how the Force itself has become an roleplaying aspect of Force-Sensitive Characters. As a result of these changes the way your usage of it manifests in the world can be very telling of your character's psyche and innermost feelings. I will most likely have to dedicate a section of my character profile to the Force and how my character's usage of it reflects him.

 

[SpaceMocha92]

Love this new Force guide! I love the shift away from "defined powers" like "Force Push," to making it more an overarching power.

 

[Green Ranger]

Love it, honestly. My only question is where things like Sith sorcery or more arcane arts fit under these umbrellas (it was mentioned in Exotic Sects, but I would assume it's somewhere under Energy Manipulation).

They'd basically just be exotic uses of the same old, really - maybe a morr ritualized version of Force usage, but nothing remarkably different really. Sith sorcery's always been kinda eh to me personally, but it's still available to use, more or less. It's just more flavour based now, as opposed to giving amy sort of unique advantage.

So my barely trained, emo and edgy as hell, padawan can no longer unleash thirty nine bolts of Force Lightening while running around at the speed of sound and telekinetically lifting a Death Star over my opponent's head? I'm sorry to say this but these rules are just too restrictive, there's a point where too much control takes the fun away from anything. If my profile says that my Jedi was born under the influence of a magenta moon that turned him cyan and gave him unparalleled Force powers then I should be able to use him like that. This place sucks, I'm leaving.

Bye forever ;'(

@Green Ranger
Just a small question I've come up with in between lectures, but is there a sort of gray Jedi equivalent, or some sort of balance that can be used while tapping into the force. I've noticed both the dark and light sides have their own unique effects, but what would happen if someone were to dabble into both like Mace Windu? Or to a more extreme e tent a gray Jedi or other exotic sect. Could there be a mix of corruption or restorative properties based on the arts used?

Not really. Since the whole idea of 'using both sides equally' is poorly supported in Legends, not supported at all in the new Canon, is a fairly niche area on the site and generally contradicts movie-tier canon, it's not really something that we really provided for.

Gameplay system like in the KOTOR series represent the Dark and Light sides as two ends of a spectrum with gray in between, but very little in canon to support that idea. We're not really looking at two sides of a coin here ie the Force being too light being equally problematic. The Force has always been about balance and corruption - most people are attuned to the Light, even if they aren't Jedi, but the nature falling to the Dark Side leaves little room for someone to sort of...dance along the line. By its very nature, the Dark Side doesn't allow someone to be so casual about using it - you either give in or you avoid it entirely. Canon doesn't really allow for you to use both equally.

Will there be a guide for helping members understand what Force usage is realistic for more novice characters compared to more experienced characters? To say that certain powers or manifestations of powers are likely beyond characters younger in the Force, or at least will not be as powerful as the same power expressed by a more experienced character. Or will that more or less be left to the discretion - to be judged by - the receiver of the Force power to say how impactful it was received?

At this stage there isn,t any plans for that, but if you're unsure about acceptable use, then feel free to ask around, both with the members and the staff. For the most part, it's just a balancing act of common sense, so trust your own better judgement. If you feel like you're being over the top, then there's a good chance you are...but a sevond opinion is never a bad thing either. ;)

Technically, shouldn't it fall under telekinesis? I mean, sound is not really energy. Its is a vibration through matter. Not much different than an earthquake, just on an other scale. #physics

Anyway, I really like what you came up with. Can't wait to see people getting creative with these! Keep up the good work.

I'm sure the Force doesn't really care that much what it's labelled. ;)

 

[AchillesHell]

So I can probably already see a problem of people just rewording already created force powers that are considerably powerful. From what I see there are going to be a lot more reporting for admins to handle pvp since people are going creating any ability they want with the force some what in the rules.

 

[Marcus]

/me severs force with @AchillesHell and then force javelins on top of it.

In all seriousness, you may be right. But hopefully people would get the point and things would mellow out a bit. People will min/max/abuse/whatever in any system.

 

[AchillesHell]

@Marcus & @Green Ranger yeah doing the force abilities like this vague in nature on a less limiting rp site such as text can be double sided.

It will allow people to be much more creative and try to think out outside of the box and be original and more descriptive. At the same time your going to constantly have people arguing on what force powers people create and use in pvp, how that force power doesn't make since, or how that's not possible, carbon copying the strongest force powers from wookipedia and rewording them,making ridiculous force powers on the fly to counter anything. Hopefully it doesn't happen like that since if that were possible the jedi/sith in canon would be a whole lot more powerful if they could create force powers on the fly.

 

[Rev]

While you are right, I think the idea of the question was like, let's saying I'm fighting a guy with a jetpack and I make it explode. In the first thread that gets ruled as valid, then in the second thread, in nearly the exact same situation the explosion of the jetpack gets ruled illegal.

Obviously different situations and different contexts will require a more in depth look, but having some semblance of a general standard may not be a bad thing, if for the very least you find yourself in a similar situation as one of those rulings you'll know exactly isn't allowed.

Now as I understand it most rulings have a general concensus done by most of the online admins, so if there is a deviant ruling then the players should be able to ask why it was ruled differently.

I think again that is such a contextual thing. By these rules you would need to apply a certain amount of focus to do exact damage to a complex object like a Jetpack with the Force. Either affecting its controls by applying the Force to it that way or crushing the entire tech both requiring an extreme amount of Focus or Concentration in my opinion. Not only would the user be moving quickly but they'd be fighting the Jedi/Sith. A power like crush I would put under the drop everything and Focus entirely on the pressure around the combatant to destroy the Jetpack. This would leave your character wide open to a blaster bolt or some other attack. Whereas you hold your ground and focus to deflect bolts back at the user and happen to strike the jetpack disabling it.

Remember this is more a Force discussion than just PvP. Being on the offensive when the Force requires concentration will now be a challenge; as it should be.

Rev, I know that stuff, but a Force push is a force push from one battle to the next even if it's used for different reasons.

I think Force Powers around the Legends belief of "core powers" will be pretty consistent across the board. It reall all boils down to writing ability and consequences for actions. If your one Force power used in a PvP is Push you shouldn't have a worry now if it is your 4th attempt in the sams fight your character should be feeling some amount of fatigue or frustration at their failure. I believe if anything admins may have to step in to make a player properly tire out their character when utilizing the Force more than having to stop an action from taking place.

I mean Yoda using the Force at the end of his life to the extent that he did practically killed him. He needed a nap after lifting the X-wing when in the Clone Wars he lifted falling rocks that were just as big and had nearly the same result. I think this really helps in balancing a Force User and non-Force User really well.

 

[MasterTyvokka]

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

What about when two force users are both attempting to use the force on each other at the same time/having a sort of force-lock scenario where they are both having a "battle of wills"? Does this new system mean that the outcome will be solely based on writing? That would make sense, since there doesn't seem to be a concrete way to decide who is "stronger in the force" on paper. That or perhaps strengths of users will be based on rank?

This new system is great though, having to list powers or refer to a huge list was tedious.

 

[K-97]

Another question; how does resisting Force powers work if it is possible? If someone uses Force Choke/telekinesis/etc. on me is there nothing I can do to avoid its effect?

 

[Kenico]

You'll probably want to mention it in your bio, yeah, but I'd also recommend adding something like 'FORCE SENSITIVE: Yes (Trained)' to the more list-like section of your character sheet as well for easy reference.

Alright that sounds good. Thanks and I'll get to work on my characters sheets... should be a piece of cake. Another question, when it comes to teaching a student the force, via on sight teachers or Holocrons, how will that work now?

 

[Beta12]

What about when two force users are both attempting to use the force on each other at the same time/having a sort of force-lock scenario where they are both having a "battle of wills"? Does this new system mean that the outcome will be solely based on writing? That would make sense, since there doesn't seem to be a concrete way to decide who is "stronger in the force" on paper. That or perhaps strengths of users will be based on rank?

This new system is great though, having to list powers or refer to a huge list was tedious.

Well I mean, unless we started using medichlorian counts.

Can we please not do that?

 

[Rev]

Another question; how does resisting Force powers work if it is possible? If someone uses Force Choke/telekinesis/etc. on me is there nothing I can do to avoid its effect?

Experience in my opinion. If you write a fresh character that is a Knight and I have a 3 month old Knight that Ive RP'd extensively with Id say my Force power should be stronger. If your character is a Guardian and mine is a Counselor that would side towards my character once more. There are factors that come into play but for the most part ability to write is the best bet as clarity in PVP has always been the deciding factor in fights. Ill let someone score a hit or even a kill if the post is well done but thats just me.

 

[Green Ranger]

@Marcus & @Green Ranger yeah doing the force abilities like this vague in nature on a less limiting rp site such as text can be double sided.

It will allow people to be much more creative and try to think out outside of the box and be original and more descriptive. At the same time your going to constantly have people arguing on what force powers people create and use in pvp, how that force power doesn't make since, or how that's not possible, carbon copying the strongest force powers from wookipedia and rewording them,making ridiculous force powers on the fly to counter anything. Hopefully it doesn't happen like that since if that were possible the jedi/sith in canon would be a whole lot more powerful if they could create force powers on the fly.

There's certainly the risk of that, absolutely, but that's what the report post feature is for, so us admins can handle it if need be.

If we find that the new rules are problematic on a large scale, then we'll go from there and tweak them as required, but we'll deal with that if we reach that point. It's not something we want to do, but we're prepared to adjust things and tighten the rules a bit if we have to.

Of course, if it boils down to one or two problematic individuals, then we'll deal with them directly rather than punish everyone, but if the broader site culture does suffer from these new rules, then we're prepared to act on that if need be.

What about when two force users are both attempting to use the force on each other at the same time/having a sort of force-lock scenario where they are both having a "battle of wills"? Does this new system mean that the outcome will be solely based on writing? That would make sense, since there doesn't seem to be a concrete way to decide who is "stronger in the force" on paper. That or perhaps strengths of users will be based on rank?

This new system is great though, having to list powers or refer to a huge list was tedious.

Well, I sort of look at a scenario like that the same way I do a saber lock...in that we'll deal with it if it ever comes up.

And I don't think I've ever had to make a ruling on a saber lock, and I've been an admin for longer than I'd like to admit. >.>

Another question; how does resisting Force powers work if it is possible? If someone uses Force Choke/telekinesis/etc. on me is there nothing I can do to avoid its effect?

If you're a Force user? Knock them down with the Force, or use the Force to weaken the grip, allowing air to flow. Throw a lightsaber or, in the case of, say, a telekinetic wave, jump out of the way.

If you're not a Force user? Lob a grenade. Grab a sidearm and shoot at them. If they're close enough, just kick them etc. The moment their mind is on something else, you're free basically.

Alright that sounds good. Thanks and I'll get to work on my characters sheets... should be a piece of cake. Another question, when it comes to teaching a student the force, via on sight teachers or Holocrons, how will that work now?

Well, the student rank is optional now, so training is sort of less of an issue now. However, for those who opt-in to the training process, it's like this. Using the Force isn't all that hard, in that it doesn't take decades to study how to lift a rock., But using the Force well, using it wisely, knowing when and where to apply it? Those are still things you can learn. Teaching will vary from student to student, but the main idea of teaching now will most likely revolve around responsible use of the Force, rather than page after page of learning one set power. I hope that helps.

Experience in my opinion. If you write a fresh character that is a Knight and I have a 3 month old Knight that Ive RP'd extensively with Id say my Force power should be stronger. If your character is a Guardian and mine is a Counselor that would side towards my character once more. There are factors that come into play but for the most part ability to write is the best bet as clarity in PVP has always been the deciding factor in fights. Ill let someone score a hit or even a kill if the post is well done but thats just me.

Well, Jedi classes aren't a thing and aren't enforced in any way, so if you call yourself a Consular and the other guys calls themselves a Guardian and it goes to an admin ruling, then the admins will say 'so they're both Jedi.' I'd agree that clever writing is probably the main factor in any dispute, more than anything else - especially since the new rank system massively reduces any difference in power levels. You won't be able to pull rank and say you should win because your character is a higher rank the same way you used to - in 9/10 circumstances, it'll be whose writing is clearer, and whose strategy is better.

 

[Kenico]

Love it love it love it! So the Holocron deal I've been cooking up will be VERY Easy LOL

 

[StormWolf]

I'm liking the free-form direction Force Powers are going. It always bugged me that people would go full DBZ and proclaim what attack they were doing and use the write-ups in Wookiepedia for a crutch. I'm already brainstorming how to prose out an amplified roar from Rhonan or achieve something in the same ballpark as Shatterpoint under this new rule set.