House Bill 2 - North Carolina

[Outlander]

Regardless of your opinion, this is a disgusting over reach by the feds. Between them and big corporations / media they're trying to trash our economy for something that wasn't even up to popular vote.

Black Codes - Civil Rights Act
States - Feds

 

[Black Noise]

Regardless of your opinion, this is a disgusting over reach by the feds. Between them and big corporations / media they're trying to trash our economy for something that wasn't even up to popular vote.

Damnit I agree with you and I hate that.

 

[Black Noise]

Black Codes - Civil Rights Act
States - Feds

That has nothing to do with what were talking about. Not even remotely. For example, I cannot get a scholarship for black people by simply verbally claiming to be black.
But a trans person could technically get a scholarship for a person of their opposite birth gender just by verbally claiming so.

But I digress.

Hell, the argument can even be made that states should have individually done away with anti-black laws.

 

[Prudence]

Damnit I agree with you and I hate that.

<3 it's the beginning of something beautiful embrace it

Black Codes - Civil Rights Act
States - Feds

It wouldn't matter if we were letting out convicted murderers just for fun, laying waste to our already shitty education funding is absolutely disgusting. It damages our future for an entire generation and damages the potential for our colleges to get promising potential. Not to mention the student loans they're robbing.

 

[Richie B.]

@Prudence I would say this isn't really a over reach of Federal power since discrimination or anything seen as discrimination is something the federal government can get involved with. Not sure how this is trying to trash our economy its not really a economic issue.

 

[Black Noise]

@Prudence I would say this isn't really a over reach of Federal power since discrimination or anything seen as discrimination is something the federal government can get involved with. Not sure how this is trying to trash our economy its not really a economic issue.

He meant to quote my hypothetical about scholarships, but I digressed really.

You can say that and believe that, you have a right to do so. But in my opinion, I think state courts should deal with descrimination on their own. We can disagree, that's why we vote for our leaders.

 

[Richie B.]

@Black Noise the reason Federal government had to get involved was because the states weren't getting rid of anit black laws, the federal government. Has a right to get involved when it involves people cross state bounds, so if those from florida gets arrested because of this law it would involve the federal government.

 

[Prudence]

@Prudence I would say this isn't really a over reach of Federal power since discrimination or anything seen as discrimination is something the federal government can get involved with. Not sure how this is trying to trash our economy its not really a economic issue.

Yes they can, but punishing school kids and college students is an overreach. They're innocent. What this really is is a PR game. They're trying to trash the state and then say "oh well if the Republicans had backed down we wouldn't have done that their fault"

 

[Black Noise]

@Black Noise the reason Federal government had to get involved was because the states weren't getting rid of anit black laws, the federal government. Has a right to get involved when it involves people cross state bounds, so if those from florida gets arrested because of this law it would involve the federal government.

Again, race is not equal to identity.

The federal government had a right to get involved because a very large portion of its population was being denied basic rights. We're not talking segregated bathroom rights, we're talking work rights and marriage rights and payment rights ect. If this situation were any of those, I would agree with you.

But this is identity, not race.

And they're not being denied the same rights as black people back then were being denied(people of color sounds like something my racist great grandmother would say, i will not say that). Trans people can marry whoever they like, work wherever they like, sit wherever they want on the bus. Those are basic rights every person, regardless of their race or identity should have. It's equal opportunity.

But again, race is not equal to identity. Race is something you are, identity is something you become.

Trans people aren't being denied basic rights, they're being told to use bathrooms according to the gender they were born in, not the one they identify as. I don't agree with the federal court's intervention, if the state wants to change the law to allow or deny something, they have the right to do so. If someone doesn't like it, vote with your body, move.

 

[Richie B.]

@Prudence I don't think that is the case it is to remind the state that this is a federal matter with transgender an is strongly against anymore discriminatory laws, since they have caused so much trouble in the past.

I seriously doubt a republican congress would allow this to become a PR game (last I remember the republicans were the majority) seriously it severs no purpose, if they seriously were trying to trash the state there could have been plenty of better ways of doing it. Like sending the soldiers to force the state to allow the discriminated population to do something they should have the right to do. (AKA the blacks being allowed to go to white schools since many states refused to allow that to happen forcing federal action.)

 

[Black Noise]

@Prudence I don't think that is the case it is to remind the state that this is a federal matter with transgender an is strongly against anymore discriminatory laws, since they have caused so much trouble in the past.

I seriously doubt a republican congress would allow this to become a PR game (last I remember the republicans were the majority) seriously it severs no purpose, if they seriously were trying to trash the state there could have been plenty of better ways of doing it. Like sending the soldiers to force the state to allow the discriminated population to do something they should have the right to do. (AKA the blacks being allowed to go to white schools since many states refused to allow that to happen forcing federal action.)

I really can't understand what you're trying to say in your first statement, sorry.

You don't have to be majority to make something a PR game. And my friend, what you're saying is "well at least we're not under a military rule where soldiers enforce government opinions in the states that made laws against them."

 

[Richie B.]

@Black Noise point is since we will allow people to be separated by identity later it might be something more, as it is a slippery slope like you said. First it is something minor like this next its something a bit more. An the process would continue, so if woman who were born man, but got the surgery to become woman should they have the right to use the restroom?

If no than that is just like the race issue just taken a different form, if yes than again its just bad taste and still discriminating because you cant know for sure if you are taking away someones right to be a the gender they were mentally suppose to be. But because of situations such as money to rob them of a right, that they should have. Which is again ultimately the question.

Should we be more worried about the freedom and rights of transgender or more worried about the security of the restroom which I have pointed out how it would actually be safer if more people were allowed to enter and were good people.

 

[Richie B.]

@Black Noise that opinion mind you was that blacks and whites should be separated because the blacks were considered a inferior race, hopefully you remember that, because that was the whole reason why the states that didn't want the merge to happen.

Because I feel like you are making light on what was forced to happen because blacks were not being treated with equal rights and beaten because they wanted to go to the same schools as whites.

 

[Black Noise]

Slippery slope argument holds no more weight here than it did when people made it against gay marriage.

But race is not equal to identity. Most people don't think Trans people are inferior.

I think you're trying to pull this argument in a different direction. And from what you are saying tells me you are clearly not reading my posts. Trans people are not being beaten, they're not being told they can't go to cis gendered schools, they're not being oppressed like black people. They're being told to use the bathroom according to the gender they were born with. Why? Because a larger majority of people will abuse the trans right to their bathroom of choice to hurt others. There are far, far more sexual deviants in the world than transsexuals.

 

[Outlander]

Trans people are not being beaten...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_of_Chrissy_Lee_Polis

http://www.people.com/article/transgender-woman-beaten-fatally-shot-after-being-attacked-5-men

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-beaten-raped-more-7782406
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-beaten-raped-more-7782406
http://www.advocate.com/politics/tr...anta-trans-women-beaten-train-bystanders-film

 

[Black Noise]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_of_Chrissy_Lee_Polis

http://www.people.com/article/transgender-woman-beaten-fatally-shot-after-being-attacked-5-men

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-beaten-raped-more-7782406
http://www.advocate.com/politics/tr...anta-trans-women-beaten-train-bystanders-film

Allow me to be VERY specific.

It is not 'OK' that Trans people are being beaten. Their assaulters can and should be prosecuted.

That was not the case for the blacks during the Civil rights movement.

All that aside, ive said what I was going to say, and it's clear from your out of context quoting that you do not wish to debate this any longer. So goodnight gentlemen.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

There are far, far more sexual deviants in the world than transsexuals.

2015 numbers, but I think that statement is a fair bit off
747,408 registered sex offenders
http://www.statisticbrain.com/sex-offender-statistics/

to 700,000 "transgender"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/09/u...imate-of-the-transgender-population.html?_r=0

Now those numbers of course are about as good as any since you could argue that of course not all "sexual deviants" as you put it are registered (psssssssssst sexual deviance is not itself a crime), but the same can be said for the Transgender population as some don't want to make that identity known for fear of discrimination and that "transgender" is not so binary as a male at birth identifying as a female or vice versa. There are many gender identities out there in the United States that really don't fit neatly into if you were born with dangly bits or lack thereof.

I myself am a proponent for unisex bathrooms for the above reason because to me having assigned poop holes decided by what you roled for XX/XY at birth in today's world is silly, but I could understand nobody agreeing with me with the vicious crime dens that bathrooms are apparently (This thread has been VERY informative! I may never pee again!).

Per the Fed withholding State funds I see no issue. It's a common tool for them to leverage against State government like when they were implementing the 21 year old drinking age and as long as they aren't forcing the State to then pony up money for the construction of a project (say if they were forcing the NC government to make new bathrooms) then yes, they'd be overstepping their bounds. Yes, the withholding of funds will hurt North Carolina. That's kind of the point.

 

[Richie B.]

@Johnnysaurus Rex i have to agree that bathrooms aren't really where a lot of sexual assaults happen in all honesty if you want to limit the number of sexual assaults bathrooms at least public ones have fewer than say in someone's home. Since that's where most sexual assaults happen.

@Black Noise im mainly saying that banning trans from woman restrooms isn't going to solve anything in terms of sexual assaults since public restrooms are not a area where lots of sexual assaults happen and allowing more people into restrooms would actually decrease the number because now there is less time between when there is no one in the restroom and when the next person comes. My main argument is that allowing trans in female restrooms isn't going to increase sexual assaults at all, like in all seriousness I have stated before how it could actually reduce it. So again are you truly afraid of people just being monsters because you do understand that not everyone is bad right?

Most people registered for sexual crimes are watched by the government (I say most because it's not all) an would be made to stick away from schools and stuff.

It won't suddenly cause a huge increase of sexual assaults because of the reasons I stated before, sexual assaults don't usually happen in restrooms and most of those that would be entering the restrooms are actually trans not disguised sexual predators because they would literally be able to do nothing with the risk of someone walking in and getting them arrested.

 

[Prudence]

Per the Fed withholding State funds I see no issue. It's a common tool for them to leverage against State government like when they were implementing the 21 year old drinking age and as long as they aren't forcing the State to then pony up money for the construction of a project (say if they were forcing the NC government to make new bathrooms) then yes, they'd be overstepping their bounds. Yes, the withholding of funds will hurt North Carolina. That's kind of the point.

The problem is the areas they're withholding. I would still be offended by just transportation funding, but at least that won't have major effects during the summer. But education funding risks damaging an entire generation of workers for the state and threatens to cause far more issues for years to come than just the frustration of not being able to go in the bathroom with girls. We already have very poorly ranked K-12 schools with under paid under staffed teachers. I can only imagine how it's going to go with Federal funds withdrawn.

For the moment, however, our Governor has pressed charges against the Federal Government to attempt to counter strike and put off the withdrawal of funds.

 

[Logan]

Just let them piss in whatever bathroom they want ffs. It will cause ZERO harm. People just need to let it go.