King Cabba's Glorious Victory OOC

[Clayton]

Alright, there's been a report on the auto hit.

But first I want to say something. Initially there was some confusion on the number of shots fired. While I agree that there were four total, the way the post was written (especially with a shot at face being mentioned twice) I can see how it could be read as three. In the future, and this is a general reminder, people need to be very clear when numbers of things are used. Otherwise writing it vaguely could be construed to be exploiting your own vagueness.

Second, just because there's an auto-hit doesn't mean the hitter gets to selectively pick which shot hits where. The fourth shot hit, and the order of Tim's shots went face, face, neck, upper torso.

Ruling: Cora is autohit in the upper torso. Due to the weird angles involved this would be a grazing wound, but as she's taken a direct hit already she is going to rapidly lose consciousness and (like Cabba) come away with a permanent disfigurement. She's effectively done fighting now.

@Sreeya @Ecclessey @Cazar @Faded Truth

 

[Faded]

In that case, does the posting order skip to me or goes to @Sreeya ?

 

[Clayton]

In that case, does the posting order skip to me or goes to @Sreeya ?

Sreeya has a 24 hour window from my ruling to edit her post, if she misses that window, it skips to the next in line.

 

[Cazar]

@Clayton I think you mean Ecc edit his post? @Sreeya Did not post yet. So I guess she is up next to post being knocked out or we skip to @Faded Truth now?

 

[Eccles]

@Cazar @Clayton @Sreeya @Faded Truth @Malon @Loco aaand I forgot Jubba's handle.

Fyi, I edited my post to change the location of the hit and the lethality.

Sorry it took so long and I'm looking forward to my fight with the newcomers :)

I assume @TheBrokenMadMan will still join?

 

[Xorism]

@Ecclessey Jubba says hi

 

[Panda Hermit 98]

Wondering if I shouldn't ask someone else to join to level things out

 

[Cazar]

@Faded Truth

A few things to discuss on your post.

The footwork descriptions and assumptions of where I must be in order to godmode me is too much. While being specific is great this is really controlling of another character rather than your own. A lot of this post does some godmode of Grug. Your defense against my interrupt is to dispute timing in my post and just pretend it wasn't an interrupt. You get the blade despite an interrupt and then use it to defend my attacks. If you had an issue with my timing it should be discussed with me OOC rather than making a conflicting IC post that locks in my post.

Rather than make a long OOC, I hope this explains well enough.

 

[Faded]

@Cazar

Morning Cazar. The description of footwork has no intention of god-moding, it is simply an application of basic combat mechanics to describe the movement and relation of both characters in time and space. We can contest the footwork if you'd like, though it is not at heart of the issue.

This is verbatim from your last post: "As Decimus was calling a lightsaber to his hand, he wouldn't get the weapon until it was too late, so it would be of zero use to block these attacks if he decided to keep pulling it towards himself."

I have no issue with your prior post; You can attempt an interrupt, it does not mean that such is guaranteed. Grug performs no action that can conclusively disrupt Decimus' summoning of the force to call a saber hilt. I am also not contesting the timing of the saber's arrival. Grug has positioned himself poorly by entering the trajectory of the incoming lightsaber. You're assuming that either Decimus would need to release the force pull in order to defend your blows or that having the saber after the blows would be of no use which is not correct. A right to left slash from a right hand dominant saber position is dodged and as Grug attacks from the low point, Decimus' right saber flicks down to block.

That committed movement places Grug in a bad position to defend against any incoming attack, hence why the follow up horizontal slash. If you are contesting the timing, my post has no violation of your shared time as I am not stating that the saber would occur prior to Grug's arrival. I am simply stating that Decimus can defend against both blows and as the saber pull is not disrupted, it arrives in his hand for a counter attack which Grug cannot effectively block based on his current positioning.

 

[Cazar]

If you think someone is in a bad position you don't get to autohit them or godmode them. You make an attempt to hit and you control your own character. It is up to me to post if I am hit or how I defend. You're also very incorrect on the footwork bits and I really am not okay with you god moding and exploiting in that way. My attacks are not separate. They come at the same time. Every single bit of the footwork you assume is not correct and is not your place to write for my character.

Timing wise, I find less important than the autohit and god modes, but is still needing addressed.

Grug hits Decimus in the abdomen with his vibro-choppa, breaking the armor and causing some pain.
Grug is pushed away a little bit but still within easy fighting range.
Grug charges instantly upon landing to avoid your counters, such as pulling the weapon.
Decimus cannot pull a weapon and push at the same time, so this comes as Grug lands.
Grug would be hitting Decimus about the same moment he gets the blade with this timing.
Both the vibro-choppa and lightsaber swings are coming, same moment. They would cross while cutting Decimus in half.


As for the defense of my attack, even if you disagree on the timing:
Decimus stepping to one side does not avoid a diagonal hit. If you have to block the Vibro-choppa with your lightsaber, my lightsaber is along a similar path from the other side and will still cut you in half.

tl;dr - I'd like for you to edit the godmode of my footwork, the autohit with the saber, and either take damage or find a new way to block my attacks. <3

 

[Faded]

@Cazar

This is a sentence from my post: "A quick movement, faster than Grug could possibly counter given the vulnerable position he had placed himself in, Decimus would spray the left hand outward and slash viciously in a horizontal manner at the Gamorrean's chest. "

I have highlighted in white the specific wording which denotes that NO autohit was assumed. The manner in which this sentence is written is not an autohit but an attempted strike against someone who is likely in a bad position.

There is really nothing to contend, your attempted interrupt does not in fact interrupt the lightsaber pull in anyway, Grug is merely attempting to land his hits before Decimus can pull the blade. However my defense rests on the fact that basic combat mechanics and footwork would dictate that Decimus in a favorable position to dodge the first attack and block the second one. And since Grug makes no attempt to actually interrupt the saber pull, there is no reason to hold that it would not arrive.

I am standing by my footwork interpretation. And in regards to your diagonal slash, you specifically state it came from top right to bottom left. I explicitly stated in my post that with his dominant right foot placed first, he stepped backwards to dodge the blow. A horizontal slash cannot be avoided in such a manner but a diagonal can given that a rotation clockwise would eliminate the target of your attack's intended trajectory.

In either case, I think me and you will argue on this all day. Perhaps it is best we have an administrator glance at this and I will accept any ruling that comes. I have reported the issue to our staff.

 

[Loco]

One of the other pvp admins will handle this since I'm in the thread, but in the future I highly recommend keeping both pvp posts and OOC pvp disputes short and concise. Also, when making a report you should give a good description of the dispute at hand- if possible, concisely summarize what you think, what your opponent thinks, and why you disagree.

So, for the ease of whoever rules on this, the dispute is over the following:

1. Decimus appears to treat Grugs attacks as two separate attacks instead of two simultaneous ones.
2. Decimus proposed defense doesnt seem to make much sense to the jedi side, time wise or spatially- in order for him to block the upward swipe, his dodge would still leave him in range in some way of the downwardstrike.
3. In addition to the above, for his defense and counterattack to be effective, he is relying on Grugs foot positioning, which he appears to be godmoding, and also on simply being able to act faster than the interrupt attempt.
4. The counter attack appeared to be written as an autohit, given the description of its effects and the plethora of actions performed after it, but I can see how the wording could be misinterpreted on that one. If it's not intended to be an autohit then most of this is probably a moot point since his new attack can still be interrupted by grug or the rest of us.


Anyone else in here can correct me if I'm wrong on the content of the dispute.

 

[Faded]

One of the other pvp admins will handle this since I'm in the thread, but in the future I highly recommend keeping both pvp posts and OOC pvp disputes short and concise. Also, when making a report you should give a good description of the dispute at hand- if possible, concisely summarize what you think, what your opponent thinks, and why you disagree.

So, for the ease of whoever rules on this, the dispute is over the following:

1. Decimus appears to treat Grugs attacks as two separate attacks instead of two simultaneous ones.
2. Decimus proposed defense doesnt seem to make much sense to the jedi side, time wise or spatially- in order for him to block the upward swipe, his dodge would still leave him in range in some way of the downwardstrike.
3. In addition to the above, for his defense and counterattack to be effective, he is relying on Grugs foot positioning, which he appears to be godmoding, and also on simply being able to act faster than the interrupt attempt.
4. The counter attack appeared to be written as an autohit, given the description of its effects and the plethora of actions performed after it, but I can see how the wording could be misinterpreted on that one. If it's not intended to be an autohit then most of this is probably a moot point since his new attack can still be interrupted by grug or the rest of us.


Anyone else in here can correct me if I'm wrong on the content of the dispute.

1. Yes, I am treating the attacks as two separated attacks rather than two simultaneous ones.
2. Defense rests on the fact that as the downward strike is coming in, Decimus turns his right shoulder clockwise to avoid it and then blocks the second attack with his saber. This is obviously dependent on step 1 regarding two separate attacks.
3. I am arguing that an interrupt is not necessarily made, since Grug is attempting to attack before the saber can come into Decimus' hand but isn't actually doing anything to stop the saber itself.
4. The counter is not an autohit, it is written to reflect that as Grug had committed to the second attack which Decimus attempts to block, it would leave Grug in a vulnerable position for the horizontal slash. And yes, the counter attack can theoretically be interrupted by Grug or any of the other Jedi Masters present.

 

[Phoenix]

Admin ruling:

1. The two attacks are at the same time as seen here: "He charged forward the moment he landed and used his lightsaber to swing in hard from top right to bottom left while [in other words simultaneously] his vibro-choppa did the opposite; bottom left to top right."
2. I'm not really going to tackle this because point 1 completely alters this.
3. The opponent does not get to dictate footwork or any other movements of the opponent. If there is need for clarification, it needs to be done and not assumed. See rule: "Don't exploit vagueness. If you need an opponent to clarify something, ask them to clarify. Do not assume."
4. Based on what is said in the OOC, it sounds like this is primarily just an issue of wording and not intended to be an autohit. Everything (i.e. the attack, speech, etc.) is still subject to interruption or alteration (and likely irrelevant given point 1).

@Faded Truth @Cazar @Loco

 

[Loco]

Admin ruling:

1. The two attacks are at the same time as seen here: "He charged forward the moment he landed and used his lightsaber to swing in hard from top right to bottom left while [in other words simultaneously] his vibro-choppa did the opposite; bottom left to top right."
2. I'm not really going to tackle this because point 1 completely alters this.
3. The opponent does not get to dictate footwork or any other movements of the opponent. If there is need for clarification, it needs to be done and not assumed. See rule: "Don't exploit vagueness. If you need an opponent to clarify something, ask them to clarify. Do not assume."
4. Based on what is said in the OOC, it sounds like this is primarily just an issue of wording and not intended to be an autohit. Everything (i.e. the attack, speech, etc.) is still subject to interruption or alteration (and likely irrelevant given point 1).

@Faded Truth @Cazar @Loco

Since this whole dispute hinged on point #1, can we get clarification on the effects, since this went to a ruling? Does Faded need to edit, or can we continue on as normal with Grugs next post responding to his erroneous defense and attempted attack?

 

[Phoenix]

Since this whole dispute hinged on point #1, can we get clarification on the effects, since this went to a ruling? Does Faded need to edit, or can we continue on as normal with Grugs next post responding to his erroneous defense and attempted attack?

Since this is an issue of needing clarification of how an attack worked and not a challenge of the actual defense, and Cazar was specifically asking for edits, @Faded Truth will have the chance to/need to edit.

 

[Faded]

Edits made to reflect discussed issues.

@Loco @Phoenix @Cazar

 

[Faded]

@Cazar

I'm sorry Cazar, I have an issue with your last post.

You cannot dictate how much power my character can harness in a force push, only the damage which you take. During your response, your defense on the force push rests solely on the fact that you say Decimus did not have enough time to gather it. Decimus has been focusing his force powers since the initial confrontation and released his grip on the saber the second Grug did not fly far enough in the previous attack. Force push is a rudimentary ability for level 1 force users and while Grug is a large humanoid, he is not gargantuan by any means. Additionally, as per our PvP guide and force abillities, Decimus is using a free hand to shape and manipulate the force blast.

You do not seem to take any effects from the force push at all, simply overpowering through it by resting on the claim that Decimus didn't have enough time to utilize it. You also fail to recognize that Decimus' torso pivoted on his left foot and thus would be theoretically out of the range of the Choppa. Obviously, this second point is moot if the Force push was accurately reflected.

I'd like you to please edit your post to either take more damage from the force push as it is intended or find another method of defense against it.

 

[Wit]

@Faded Truth I think your gathering of the Force was interrupted when you got hit in the chest, you even acknowledged your character taking the hit. Things like that break your concentration, specially for a level 1. Also, if you were summoning the lightsaber to yourself then whatever Force you had gathered up to that point went into that attack. Level 1s can only do one Force move at a time. So can't be using the force to summon a blade while charging the Force for another attack in the background.

Not sure about the rest of the post but wanted to clarify on that. Keep in mind I only did a glancing read of the recent posts so might be wrong.

 

[Loco]

Wit is correct- since you abandoned the pull, this push is a new attack, and just because you attempt an attack doesn't mean it hits. The way I read it, Grugs post is an interrupt intended to prevent you from hitting him with the push by driving forward into your block and attacking you while you attempt, since you're already in melee range.

Edit: That positioning doesn't make sense either. Per your own post you were maintaining the saber lock- in order to do that, youd have to still be in melee range, especially with grug barreling forward.