Lightsabers in DOTR

[Spud]

Many of us do seem to like V lol, though I've seen a handful of II and IV specialists around as well, plus the VIIs. Overall I'd say Form I is probably the least common to specialize in. Anywho, sword/shield combat would be even more heavily dependant on the writing skill of the user than the normal one or two sabers but if they know what they're doing then I think it could do pretty well. They could go all Spartan with it and start strength enhanced shield bashing people/oncoming attacks or they could get a larger shield like a Roman Centurion and specialize in barriers and energy dissipation to become a walking tank against blasters and the sort.

Of course using a shield comes with its own drawbacks, having to lug it around with you all the time being one, the heavy encumbrance another, but some people enjoy that sort of thing. To each their own ultimately. Hell, someone could go blaster+shield riot control style, that'd be interesting to read. Personally I went with the separating double saberstaff, where each separate single-handed hilt is also its own saberstaff. Sena doesn't know why people that use both forward and reverse blade techniques go through the impractical hassle of flipping the hilt around in their hand. xP

 

[Halcyon]

Sena doesn't know why people that use both forward and reverse blade techniques go through the impractical hassle of flipping the hilt around in their hand. xP

Because it looks cool. No, seriously, that can only be it. I'm a purist when it comes to the basics of sword dueling, and I don't see any point in changing such a fundamental thing as a hand grip mid-duel. You leave yourself wide open to attacks while doing so.

Having said that, a reverse hand grip has its advantages and drawbacks - I can go into further detail if anybody wants to know.

Another thing that I don't understand is why I've never seen a dual wielder on SW with a normal grip on his dominant hand and a reverse grip on the off-hand; they either do one or the other grip style on both hands. It makes more sense to me to vary the grips between hands, since you would be using the off-hand to parry and you had both the shorter and longer range of both "styles" so you could effectively fight both in close as well as mid range, respectively.

Yeah, I'm a sucker for dual wielding and that's why on my first character I'm going with Jar'Kai and Form VI, Niman. He'll use a quarterstaff - you read that right - as well.

P.S.: Other than the fact that you can still fight with a saberstaff in the event of "losing" the other, wielding two saberstaffs at the same time, is highly impractical for someone with just two arms, unless I'm missing something.

 

[TheBlackace]

Having said that, a reverse hand grip has its advantages and drawbacks - I can go into further detail if anybody wants to know.

Please do, I'm interested.

 

[Halcyon]

Please do, I'm interested.

Oh boy, what have I done!? XD
Thing is, a lot can be said about this subject and, same as everything else, it considerably depends on context. For example, what holds true for a knife fight does not in regards to fencing, etc.; and, it depends if one of the duelist is unarmed, if both have the same type of melee weapon, and so on.

For this posts I'll stick to what I think is most important in LS vs LS dueling.

First of all, one of the main disadvantages of a reverse grip is its biomechanical inferiority. When compared with the forward grip, the reverse is much weaker, what with your little finger "taking the lead", and the blade becoming less stable. The risk of self-injury is far greater when trying to pierce your opponent or if the blade hits something hard like bone or armor. Try it yourself by holding a pen or other similar object both ways -please don't use a knife if you're not experienced with it - and do some strong stabbing or slashing motions in the air. Without getting into much detail about the particulars of the human anatomy, you'll notice that the whole arm seems to act like a spring when using a forward (normal) grip and the shoulder doesn't get as "strained". Using the reverse grip, your shoulder seems to get tired more easily, right? That's because the shoulder and arm are not "locked in place". The actual blow is weaker also.

Anyway, I don't think that this particular point makes much difference with LS. Unless you're hitting another LS or a material like cortosis, the plasma blade can cut through pretty much anything, so I don't imagine it getting stuck on bone or armor! XD
So, the biomechanical disadvantage of a reverse grip is pretty much negligible, particularly in a setting filled with aliens of different anatomies, and then, there's always the FORCE!
You can always argue that the (supposed) gyroscopic effect - which was already discussed on this very same thread - would be responsible for straining your muscles in lieu of hitting a solid object (like bone or armor), but that's just nitpicking far too much even for my own tastes! XP
And then again... the FORCE!

The second big difference is range. Holding the hilt in reverse, with the blade towards and behind you rather than forward, effectively shortens the blade's range. That's usually a very bad thing in a sword-fight - particularly fencing or other style of "piercing combat" - where size DOES matter. But sometimes, it's more important to have a small size rather than a big one, in regards to sword fighting that is.
Such times as when fighting in close quarters or small spaces. The longer the blade the more range it has, but also the less mobility while fighting in say a corridor or a doorway, where the blade will often either hit the walls or simply prevent you from swinging it entirely. Also, even on open spaces, if the duelists are very close to each other, or grappling, the smaller blade has the edge - double entendre , eheheh.
It's common sense really, I don't think I need to explain that.

One last thing, a weapon held in reverse grip, allows for faster - albeit weaker, but as I said that's not really an issue with a LS - swings because the blade's direction [EDIT: direction, as in direction of movement and not to where the blade is pointing] is easier to reverse, also the arm is naturally at a lower position allowing for acute strikes and easier blocks or parries. That's why I mentioned that holding a weapon - often with a smaller blade - on the off-hand with a reverse grip would be ideal to act as an aggressive shield - rarely do you (really) fight "aggressively" with both weapons while double wielding; one hand is for offense and the other for defense, otherwise you would just leave yourself wide open more often than not.
Don't get me wrong, the fighting style itself is aggressive, because you can easily "switch" the off-hand from defense to offense when necessary, unlike with a shield. (Shield bashes are a real thing, but far less efficient than video games would have you believe).
That's why double wielding is commonly considered in pop culture to be a fighting style restricted to experts. This is one of those (rare) occasions where pop culture is actually right on the mark.

A lot more can be said, like the fact that holding the hilt in reverse makes it harder for an opponent to disarm you; and, in turn, someone trained in this style of fighting as well as in disarming an opponent, can quickly do one and the other in succession - because when you usually disarm an opponent, his weapon (now in your hand) is being held in a reverse grip.
Also, using both grips on different hands - the way I love and mentioned - prevents your own blades from interacting with each other.

I hope that helped, and feel free to ask anything else. But most of all bare in mind, the main reason for using a reverse grip is because IT LOOKS SO EFFING COOL!!!! XD

 

[Spud]

P.S.: Other than the fact that you can still fight with a saberstaff in the event of "losing" the other, wielding two saberstaffs at the same time, is highly impractical for someone with just two arms, unless I'm missing something.

It's not like she runs around with both blades activated constantly. Each individual hilt is only 6in, a comfortable size for 1-handed only usage. 90% of the time while dual wielding there is only two of the possible 4 blades activated in whichever orientation is most suitable to her needs. Like I said the saberstaff aspects of the 1H hilts serves to mainly eliminate the need to flip the hilt around in the hand.

Even while the hilts are connected as one Sena uses only one of the two blades the majority of the time. Many people forget that the ignition of each saberstaff blade isn't likely to be tied to one another, use it like a normal lightsaber until usage for the dual blade aspect comes up.

Another aspect of the reverse blade is the defensive 'range', how much of a 360 degree bubble one can defend oneself from. A reverse blade is far quicker to defend/counter/initiate attacks at/from the back, though like you said the wielder needs to be experience in order not to harm themselves.

Also in the aspect of LS v Blaster a reverse blade can protect the back while the forward blade protects the front, then if things get hairy the dual saberstaff aspect can potentially protect from four lines of fire simultaneously as every two bolts of energy will technically cross the same flat plane at different points when they come within blocking distance. Blocking two bolts per saberstaff is a matter of simply adjusting the hilt to that plane. Obviously this would require a great deal of concentration but it is plausible.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

I love how all of these people have so many complex and intricate designs for their light sabers and their fighting styles, like saber staffs, reverse light sabers, double wielding lightsabers, nightstick sabers, über longsword sabers and short sabers, and even swords and shields. Then there's me and I'm just sitting here with my single curved hilt blade like a boring square.

 

[Halcyon]

Obviously this would require a great deal of concentration but it is plausible.

XD
In SW fantasy setting? Hell yeah it's plausible, but I literally LOLed when I read the end of your sentence. Don't get me wrong, nothing against you or what you said, quite the contrary; it's just that the juxtaposition of the word plausible to your previous statement is so absurd in the context of IRL, yet totally conceivable for a Jedi... In fact, deflecting one single blaster bolt with a LS is pretty extremely very highly truly deeply unlikely, if not for the magic that we call the Force. Forgive me, it's not magic, it's "bacteria in your blood".

Anyway, that seems like an interesting design, kudos!
My confusion came from the fact that you never really mentioned the alternating grip principle in the first place. You just stated saberstaffs and that 'she' never understood people who actually revert grips mid-fight - I don't either, but not because Nova has double saberstaffs. I'd like them to keep doing it though, so I can take advantage of that opening.

Anyway, I like your idea. We should fight! XP

@+SpaceJesus+ Aside from a LS that doesn't really work that well, my PC will rock a quarterstaff and a bow. Dude, in a galaxy of pew pew pew and glow sticks, we're the cool kids!

 

[Spud]

Sometimes simplicity is the best weapon. xP

 

[Reya Starlyght]

I was going to do dual wield, but then decided to keep it simple. The only thing fancy about my Jedi's lightsaber is that it's orange and has a bronze handle.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

Sometimes simplicity is the best weapon. xP

I can agree with that. My main motivation for not going more complicated is that I think that there are to few people in general who appreciate the simplicity and advantages of a single saber. Plus my guy usually needs a hand free in the fighting style he uses, so a Form II single saber style matches him. Downside being that it's the most boring kind of lightsaber style out there, and it looks kinda lame compared to an epic double bladed lightsaber dual wield.

@+SpaceJesus+ Aside from a LS that doesn't really work that well, my PC will rock a quarterstaff and a bow. Dude, in a galaxy of pew pew pew and glow sticks, we're the cool kids!

A quarterstaff light saber would be downright terrifying.

 

[Talon maara]

Seeing as how lightsabers are always described as "a Jedi weapon", the only way a non-Jedi/Sith would have a lightsaber would be plucking it from a corpse or spending an exorbitant sum of credits in the darkest corners of the black market. Even then, it would be more of a symbol of status than something you would use at that point. "Yeah, I killed a Jedi (even though I just looted this from her corpse)"

Maybe maybe not. Look at general grievous, non force user with 4 sabers. One can use them if they are not force sensitive. Just gotta know HOW to use it

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

Maybe maybe not. Look at general grievous, non force user with 4 sabers. One can use them if they are not force sensitive. Just gotta know HOW to use it

He actually did pluck them off of the corpses of Jedi he had killed, like StormWolf said. He was also trained by a Sith Lord in how to use them. Basically what I think he is saying is that the acquiring of the saber and the training in the use of said saber would in most scenarios involve interaction with a force user.

 

[Kenico]

@Talon maara Agreed, what I found annoying in some conventions and in some cases the EU/Legends is that it was saying that only FS's could use lightsabers (especially in the current RP the rules stated that only FS' could use Ligthsabers and I wager not all but a niche of peeps made fss JUST to have a lightsaber...your's truly being guilty of such a crime ;)) however what I find funny is that if someone, regardless if they are Force Sensitive or not, has the rudimentary knowledge of how lightsabers work they could at least be competent with it enough not to get themselves killed. Hence why this is one of the many reasons i love the Nucanon...that is the case...if you know how a lightsaber works and know what it can and cannot do...you can use it.

 

[Shalken]

My Jedi character is going to use just one lightsaber for multiple reasons:
1: I think that having either "unique" or "special" lightsabers or multiple ones seems to be a little overrated;
2: My character prefers to use stong attacks and strong defense, and holds his saber with both hands for a strong grip.

Nothing against people who do use multiple or fancy lightsabers. Just my reasoning behind using only one.

 

[Talon maara]

My Jedi character is going to use just one lightsaber for multiple reasons:
1: I think that having either "unique" or "special" lightsabers or multiple ones seems to be a little overrated;
2: My character prefers to use stong attacks and strong defense, and holds his saber with both hands for a strong grip.

Nothing against people who do use multiple or fancy lightsabers. Just my reasoning behind using only one.

And thats understandable. I personaly love the double bladed loghtsabers myself.

 

[Spud]

Each style has its own advantages and disadvantages. A single saber can be used by those that prefer stronger and more stable techniques through two handed grip or by those that prefer to mix saber and force combat or saber and blaster combat. Two sabers double your attack/defence capabilities but reduce strength and limit offensive/defensive force usage, it's a style that focuses more on speed and dexterity.

Ultimately we should use what fits best with the character. My character has a small frame and is heavily blade centric so dual wielding fits her rather well, Shalkens' likes a strong and stable style so a single saber fits them better, so on and so forth.

Also, there's this. Zoom to about 2:12, or watch it all, tis for the luls.
[media]

 

[Vosrik]

saber and blaster combat

Obi-Wan would be rolling in his grave

 

[Kenico]

Technically, if you think about it...Obi Wan isn't even BORN yet. So how could he even be rolling around in his grave? o_O

 

[Vosrik]

Depends on which timeline you're thinking of :P but this being DotR I suppose you're correct.

 

[Sapphire Storm]

Sometimes simplicity is the best weapon. xP

Especially in a PvP scenario, where all the flashy and fancy moves tend to get people killed when they come up against someone that just uses basic things to beat them.

I've been strongly considering having my Sith be a practitioner of Shii-Cho. Lightsaber forms are all just fluff and flavour, but it's fun to think about, anyway. Part of the reason I'm doing it is because I think it's an interesting style that never gets used, and the other part is that she's so lacking in confidence in terms of lightsaber combat that even if she wanted to branch out she probably couldn't. She'll probably stick to it because it has simple principles that she can get her head around easily, and then if she ever gains enough confidence to feel like she could branch out she'll probably like it too much to stop using it.