Midi-chlorians

[Manderley]

Out of pure curiosity, what is SWRP's official (and unofficial) stance on midi-chlorians?

Are they completely disregarded, and considered non-canonical? Or are they accepted as part of the lore, but largely ignored?

Or is your guys' stance completely different?

 

[Saul]

They should be a part of the lore, given that they are in the movies, which is as canonical as it gets. That said, I think its generally accepted that people don't consider midichlorian count when it comes to how powerful a character can be, that power in the Force is primarily based off training.

However, having a low midichlorian count does not make one unable to learn the Force. Every creature has midichlorians (though the Jedi Exile brings into question whether they are truly necessary for life) and so rigorous training, like Matukai training, could attune you to the midichlorians when you would otherwise be less affected by them. Similar to how any training can make you stronger in the Force.

In summary: They are a part of canon. They should not be ignored. Midichlorian count does not significantly impact RP by convention.

 

[Kiro]

Midichlorians don't exist on SWRP, I believe. I'm quite certain both Bac and Boli have stated as much in the past.

So yeah, considered non-canon and disregarded, I'd say.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Midi-chlorians exist. We just don't consider them a factor in anything.

 

[Kiro]

Midi-chlorians exist. We just don't consider them a factor in anything.

My bad.

 

[Ben]

Midi-chlorians exist. We just don't consider them a factor in anything.

1) Thank the Force.

2) Does this mean I can have over 20,000? I heard that not even Master Yoda has a count that high...

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I wouldn't even mention them. At some point I want to write a post reconciling the PT view of using the Force (you have to have a certain midi-chlorian count) and the OT view (anyone can do it, it's about spirituality). If I do that, then that's what will be SWRP canon, and you can use midi-chlorians in that context. For now, though, I'd ignore midi-chlorians all together.

 

[Saul]

I wouldn't even mention them. At some point I want to write a post reconciling the PT view of using the Force (you have to have a certain midi-chlorian count) and the OT view (anyone can do it, it's about spirituality). If I do that, then that's what will be SWRP canon, and you can use midi-chlorians in that context. For now, though, I'd ignore midi-chlorians all together.

Reconciling it in a way I mentioned in my post? As in, with the proper training, one can be trained to listen to the Force even though they have a lower midichlorian count - though it would be more difficult. Afterall, midichlorians don't explicitly exclude anyone from using the Force, since they ARE present in all life, it'd just be more difficult to hear them when you have a count of 1,000 versus having a count of 20,000 or whatever, but it should still be possible. Also, lower than 1,000 midichlorian counts allow people to be more difficult to detect in the Force, which could somewhat offset low midichlorian count PC's disadvantage against trained FS.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Sort of, but not entirely like what you said.

 

[Kiro]

Saul, correct me if I'm wrong, but your view makes it sound as if anyone can learn how to use the Force if they just recieve Jedi training... My head's being a bit slow right now.

 

[Saul]

Saul, correct me if I'm wrong, but your view makes it sound as if anyone can learn how to use the Force if they just recieve Jedi training... My head's being a bit slow right now.

Not everyone (below a certain threshold it'd be effectively impossible) and not just simple Jedi training, I'm thinking of something much more rigorous. If your standard Jedi at 1500 midichlorians requires so and so many months or years of training, then a regular person at 1000 midichlorians would require much, much more, and more so to be able to maintain that concentration in stressful situations (aka combat) ...It'd be much more than simply "being angry" like most Sith or "willing things to happen" like most Jedi do in RP, it'd be a truly aesthetic lifestyle (regardless of alignment) to gain that sort of concentration. And a person with lower than 1000 would find it practically impossible. So a Mando who decides he wants to try to learn the Force would have to literally abandon everything that makes him Mando to gain a level of understanding about the Force that a starting level Padawan would know.

At least, that's my idea. My main problem with Force Sensitivity in the books and what not was that who was and wasn't FS was either the equivalent of eugenics or altogether arbitrary. Thinking about it, if its genetic, why don't the Sith just have breeding farms where they can use eugenic principles to breed armies of Sith.

 

[Kiro]

At least, that's my idea. My main problem with Force Sensitivity in the books and what not was that who was and wasn't FS was either the equivalent of eugenics or altogether arbitrary. Thinking about it, if its genetic, why don't the Sith just have breeding farms where they can use eugenic principles to breed armies of Sith.

I always gone with the 'genetic lottery' thing... but even in EU Canon there's been children of highly Force Sensetive individuals, like the son of Revan and Bastila, whom weren't Force Sensetive at all, which throws a monkey wrench in the whole 'breeding farms' thing. But then, Satele Shan (whom might be his daughter again, or granddaughter, not 100% sure), was a Jedi Grand Master again, so... *Shrugs* Most canon seems to support the 'Genetic Lottery' theory, from what I've experienced, but the children of Force Sensetives do seem to have higher odds in that lottery, compared to your average schmoe.

But then again, you have entire species that are Force Sensetive, so... meh, space science magic! *hand waving*

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Making it genetic is actually what killed the entire concept, starting with Episode I. In the originals, the very heavy implication - which, at the time, is what George Lucas was saying - is that the Force is about your spirituality. Anyone could use the Force, but they had to take the time to actually study it and learn it. It's like yoga or karate; anyone can learn it, but most people don't since most people don't want to spend their lives figuring it out. The prequels turned it into being an übermensch, which then had a ripple effect throughout the canon.

Basically, everyone should be Force sensitive, but that doesn't have to mean the same thing as Force using.

 

[Kiro]

Making it genetic is actually what killed the entire concept, starting with Episode I. In the originals, the very heavy implication - which, at the time, is what George Lucas was saying - is that the Force is about your spirituality. Anyone could use the Force, but they had to take the time to actually study it and learn it. It's like yoga or karate; anyone can learn it, but most people don't since most people don't want to spend their lives figuring it out. The prequels turned it into being an übermensch, which then had a ripple effect throughout the canon.

Basically, everyone should be Force sensitive, but that doesn't have to mean the same thing as Force using.

Right... so how would the Jedi go about recruiting and finding potential new members? And the whole 'The Force is strong in <Person Whom Has Never Conciously Used The Force Before Meeting Jedi>' or their bloodline. I mean, I don't know what'd about Luke's spirituality would make him more adept at using the Force compared to say, Han or Lando, at the start of the movies. Or Leia. Why did it HAVE to be Luke or Leia that had to be trained to be come a Jedi and defeat Vader, when Yoda or Ben could take in anyone and train them to become a Jedi Knight, without all the emotional baggage of 'Vader is your daddy' thing?

Or am I missing something again?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Right... so how would the Jedi go about recruiting and finding potential new members? And the whole 'The Force is strong in <Person Whom Has Never Conciously Used The Force Before Meeting Jedi>' or their bloodline. I mean, I don't know what'd about Luke's spirituality would make him more adept at using the Force compared to say, Han or Lando, at the start of the movies. Or Leia. Why did it HAVE to be Luke or Leia that had to be trained to be come a Jedi and defeat Vader, when Yoda or Ben could take in anyone and train them to become a Jedi Knight, without all the emotional baggage of 'Vader is your daddy' thing?

Or am I missing something again?

Jedi could recruit anyone. Maybe some people won't cut it - not everyone is good at karate, even if it's not impossible for them to do it - but the possibility is open to everyone.

The idea of "The Force is strong in you" really came about because of the prequels.

Luke was chosen because of destiny. Han and Lando had no interest in becoming Jedi. Han, for awhile at least, even thought the idea was stupid.

What you're doing right now is exactly the problem that led to Lucas creating midi-chlorians: you're trying to bring logic to something that doesn't operate on logic, nor is it supposed to. The Force is meant to be about mystery. It's meant to be about spirituality. It's not about answers.

 

[Kiro]

Jedi could recruit anyone. Maybe some people won't cut it - not everyone is good at karate, even if it's not impossible for them to do it - but the possibility is open to everyone.

The idea of "The Force is strong in you" really came about because of the prequels.

Luke was chosen because of destiny. Han and Lando had no interest in becoming Jedi. Han, for awhile at least, even thought the idea was stupid.

What you're doing right now is exactly the problem that led to Lucas creating midi-chlorians: you're trying to bring logic to something that doesn't operate on logic, nor is it supposed to. The Force is meant to be about mystery. It's meant to be about spirituality. It's not about answers.

Right. *rewires her brain*

Jedi are now Clerics/Paladins from D&D with glowy laser swords. Understood. *salutes*

 

[Jax Vos]

Jedi could recruit anyone. Maybe some people won't cut it - not everyone is good at karate, even if it's not impossible for them to do it - but the possibility is open to everyone.

The idea of "The Force is strong in you" really came about because of the prequels.

Luke was chosen because of destiny. Han and Lando had no interest in becoming Jedi. Han, for awhile at least, even thought the idea was stupid.

What you're doing right now is exactly the problem that led to Lucas creating midi-chlorians: you're trying to bring logic to something that doesn't operate on logic, nor is it supposed to. The Force is meant to be about mystery. It's meant to be about spirituality. It's not about answers.

Also, if you pay close attention to Episode IV Tarkin says that Vader has the same religion as the Jedi. From what I could tell, the Jedi were originally just supposed to be a religious group that were able to use abilities that came from the Force.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Right. *rewires her brain*

Jedi are now Clerics/Paladins from D&D with glowy laser swords. Understood. *salutes*

Well, for now, go with canon - until we post something that really makes things clear for SWRP purposes.

Also, if you pay close attention to Episode IV Tarkin says that Vader has the same religion as the Jedi. From what I could tell, the Jedi were originally just supposed to be a religious group that were able to use abilities that came from the Force.

Technically, even after the prequels, they still are a religious group that were able to use abilities that came from the Force. Midi-chlorians weren't exclusive to Jedi. The change that the prequels made in terms of religion is that they took the concept of a belief system and turned it into an institution.

Put it another way? They took an eastern philosophy and made it into the Catholic Church, headquartered at the Jedi Vatican.

 

[Jax Vos]

Technically, even after the prequels, they still are a religious group that were able to use abilities that came from the Force. Midi-chlorians weren't exclusive to Jedi. The change that the prequels made in terms of religion is that they took the concept of a belief system and turned it into an institution.

That explains it in a way that I could not have gotten to on my own.

Put it another way? They took an eastern philosophy and made it into the Catholic Church, headquartered at the Jedi Vatican.

That's where I wanted to go, but it's much better than I would have said it!

 

[Xan]

Right. *rewires her brain*

Jedi are now Clerics/Paladins from D&D with glowy laser swords. Understood. *salutes*

Does that make the Sith Blackguards/Anti-paladins? Because in that case, I should be channeling more negative energy.