North Korea: Plutonium Test

[Fynar]

To prove my point even further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_7161

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_№_001223

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_58_(RSFSR_Penal_Code

Every link here is a former Soviet Law and in the other post as well some are.

 

[Kit]

Before I continue, let me get this straight: Storm is of the opinion that Kim Jong Il is a good ruler and we have no right to replace him, because the North Koreans like him.

Wow.

Not quite. I think what Tom's getting at is that you have no right to replace him, full stop. Regardless of whether you dislike him. His point is that if the Koreans disliked him, then he would have been gotten rid of. It's not your job to decide who gets to rule, it's the Koreans. And since they like him, he stays.

It's not that hard to wrap your head around, to be fair.

 

[Sovereign]

It's not your job to decide who gets to rule, it's the Koreans. And since they like him, he stays.

Uh, since when do the koreans have a say in anything?

North Koreans are pretty much forced into submission. The only reason why there is no dissent in North Korea is because rebelling results in you being either killed or sent off into a labour camp. So how can you say that they get decide?

Kim IS a brutal dictator, and that is not up to debate. His people are starving while he lives a life of luxury. Last time he received food aid from the U.N, he uses all of that money to buy himself 100 mercedes benz. How can anyone possibly defend that? I am not advocating a military strike against North Korea, but trying to defend Kim is completely ridiculous.

 

[Fynar]

Not quite. I think what Tom's getting at is that you have no right to replace him, full stop. Regardless of whether you dislike him. His point is that if the Koreans disliked him, then he would have been gotten rid of. It's not your job to decide who gets to rule, it's the Koreans. And since they like him, he stays.

It's not that hard to wrap your head around, to be fair.

Seriously that is like saying the allies had no right to take the nazis out of power.

 

[Green Ranger]

Seriously that is like saying the allies had no right to take the nazis out of power.

That's a terrible comparison to make, not least because it's wrong. I don't see North Korea running around invading its neighbours or really doing anything that may affect anyone beyond its own borders other than empty threats over the years. As far as the world is concerned, we don't have a right to stick our noses into this business yet.

 

[Fynar]

That's a terrible comparison to make, not least because it's wrong. I don't see North Korea running around invading its neighbours or really doing anything that may affect anyone beyond its own borders other than empty threats over the years. As far as the world is concerned, we don't have a right to stick our noses into this business yet.

Yeah then America had to right to take down Saddam. :CHappy:

 

[Green Ranger]

Yeah then America had to right to take down Saddam. :CHappy:

Well...no, they didn't really have a right to do that at all, imo. But I don't know too much about the issue, so I've probably got my facts wrong about it all anyway.

 

[Sovereign]

Taking out Kim would do more harm than good, but that doesn't mean that he isn't a ****ing dipshit.

 

[Viggy]

Taking out Kim would do more harm than good, but that doesn't mean that he isn't a ****ing dipshit.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Xin]

Kim wants a fight, possibly. But I don't think he'll do a full-on engagement. I'm pretty sure that China or Russia will try to calm the whole situation, considering that they might get caught in the blaze meant for North Korea. And China, for their own sake, would not want to have North Korea being blown up right next to them. It's like your neighbor's house is under a drive-by shooting. You most probably wouldn't like that shit considering it was happening right next to your house, no matter how much you hated or liked that neighbor?

Point being said, China will probably do the "puttin' down" because I'm sure as hell I wouldn't want my neighbor starting trouble in the whole damn neighborhood. Would you?

It's only the allies that seem to make reason and seem to be justifiable, never the enemies.

 

[Storm]

Before I continue, let me get this straight: Storm is of the opinion that Kim Jong Il is a good ruler and we have no right to replace him, because the North Koreans like him.

Wow.

Before I continue, let me get this straight: Dan is of the opinion Kim Jong Il is a bad leader, and we should replace him and upset the North Korean state of things, which we have no right to do anyway.

Wow.

I know he did good things for the USSR and made it strong. But just because your family wasn't one of the families affected by his crimes, doesn't make the dead bodies or the lies disappear. Stalin was still corrupt and murderous. You cannot deny this. It is commonly known fact, even among Russians who apparently approve of him for some reason, that he rewrote history books and killed many innocent people. Not to mention that he was a dictator who wouldn't let anyone get close to his amount of power. As far as I'm concerned, all of this makes him a bad leader.

But I'll give up trying to convince you otherwise.

Actually, I have a few family who were in Gulags. They did, however, question the state and the way it operated. Therefore, whilst I'm not happy they died, they did commit a crime.

I don't believe in killing them, no.

Warning, heavy fine, then arrest imo.

And sure, you can think what you want. But I have every right to believe what I want, and that, in no way, makes my opinion any less valid. I'm not changing on this front any more than you're going to.

Not quite. I think what Tom's getting at is that you have no right to replace him, full stop. Regardless of whether you dislike him. His point is that if the Koreans disliked him, then he would have been gotten rid of. It's not your job to decide who gets to rule, it's the Koreans. And since they like him, he stays.

It's not that hard to wrap your head around, to be fair.

This.

That's a terrible comparison to make, not least because it's wrong. I don't see North Korea running around invading its neighbours or really doing anything that may affect anyone beyond its own borders other than empty threats over the years. As far as the world is concerned, we don't have a right to stick our noses into this business yet.

Per Boli.

Taking out Kim would do more harm than good, but that doesn't mean that he isn't a ****ing dipshit.

That's my point too. My point is that, corrupt as he may be, we've no right to intervene whatsoever.

 

[Amathev]

Before I continue, let me get this straight: Dan is of the opinion Kim Jong Il is a bad leader, and we should replace him and upset the North Korean state of things, which we have no right to do anyway.

Wow.

Well, yeah, he is a bad leader, he should be replaced, and an "upset" is often needed to improve the state of things.

 

[Storm]

Well, yeah, he is a bad leader, he should be replaced, and an "upset" is often needed to improve the state of things.

And, as a non Korean, you, I, or anyone else here, has no right to administer such a thing. And they're happy, so it's not as pressing as if they all hated him.

 

[Cailst]

And, as a non Korean, you, I, or anyone else here, has no right to administer such a thing. And they're happy, so it's not as pressing as if they all hated him.

They're happy? I'm sure a few are but they're probably the ones with the guns that can more or less enforce order. I'm sure the non brain dead ones realize the crappiness of their lives, they just can't do much about it and probably don't realize what much of the rest of the world is like.

 

[Fynar]

They're happy? I'm sure a few are but they're probably the ones with the guns that can more or less enforce order. I'm sure the non brain dead ones realize the crappiness of their lives, they just can't do much about it and probably don't realize what much of the rest of the world is like.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

According to this website their lives all own and NK is a apparently a vaction spot.

 

[Storm]

They're happy? I'm sure a few are but they're probably the ones with the guns that can more or less enforce order. I'm sure the non brain dead ones realize the crappiness of their lives, they just can't do much about it and probably don't realize what much of the rest of the world is like.

As I said, SIN's got the specific statistic, but they're all so brainwashed their pro the government. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, imo. As I said to Viggy.

 

[Cailst]

As I said, SIN's got the specific statistic, but they're all so brainwashed their pro the government. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, imo. As I said to Viggy.

I think a good amount of them would actually be against the government but simply can't do anything. While brain washing may be effective for some people, there should be quite a few people that can see past the crap.

Still, I wouldn't advocate military action right now as the US is a bit tied up in the middle east and south asia.

 

[Fynar]

I think a good amount of them would actually be against the government but simply can't do anything. While brain washing may be effective for some people, there should be quite a few people that can see past the crap.

Still, I wouldn't advocate military action right now as the US is a bit tied up in the middle east and south asia.

There definitely is. There is always people who can see past the crap. They probably just don't say anything.

 

[Storm]

Still, I wouldn't advocate military action right now as the US is a bit tied up in the middle east and south asia.

To advocate interfering with another country's affairs is why half the world has this stereotypical view of America's country as belligerent assholes and why Obama's so welcomed - because he talks.

 

[Fynar]

To advocate interfering with another country's affairs is why half the world has this stereotypical view of America's country as belligerent assholes and why Obama's so welcomed - because he talks.

Who cares what they think about our nation. I'd rather be a hated warmonger than a guy who sits around talking. That is just the way of the world. Also I bet it would make America look even better anyways. We invaded a nation who was hostile and reunited the people into one nation. Then now America would look like liberators and then we would have bases that border china. As an American I would support the us invasion of NK if one ever happened.