Political Disruptions OOC

[Richie B.]

So just want to get a few things clarify before I post. So from what I read the city square was 70 meters from the location of the house that was being raided into. Or least the lane which begins the neighborhood where the house is being raided into.

While our position has been stated to be just on the edge of the city square by painus recent post. I just curious about the distance that you guys think we are currently would be at? 10 meters, 20 meters?

And also since by @Shalken it is canon that the house which @Painus and @Ecclessey are currently in is a couple meters forward of me and @BlackJack position and to the left. Is the Mando's looking down the alleyway or down the street where myself and Blackjack are. Just want to get that clarified so I can know where the direction I am being shot at is. Since there is a building that should block the view between the alleyway and the street considering a building would be there.

 

[Eccles]

Yo @Richie B. we can explain our actions with maps and IC info, but we're all a bit pre-occupied IRL atm.

Work and holidays. You know the drill.

Feel free to request an extension. The OOC post will come as soon as time opens up.

 

[BlackJack]

Here is my interpretation of our last round

1. @Shalken shoots @CaesarXI successfully taking said Republica Sith effectively out of the fight
2. @Painus hears these shots and runs upstairs to witness the scene, cook a grenade, throw it, then get back enough to not be seen, then fire three shots with a rifle @Ecclessey hears these shots and heads to the window to fire at @Richie B.
3. @Richie B. approaches @Shalken causing them to run to the house to the right of my character. This is an interrupt of the actions stated in my post so according to the pvp rules my character would likely not have fired in the first place as her target fled before she had previously stated she shot
4. @Shalken force pulls @Richie B. on the assumption that those shots are firing, as previously stated they most likely are not
5. Current time

So from north to south we have, Jacki in the courtyard prone, Jedrek in the alley upright and armed, Toland running to a house to Jacki's right, Aria on the ground a number of meters past Jedrek, Leandros and Rud in a house on the right of the alley. Leandros is on the second floor and Rud is on the ground floor.

I'd prefer a confirmation of this or corrections prior to posting. This is a complex and sensitive scenario and we can only help each other through cooperation in our collective aim to murder each other.

That being said I will point out the @Painus had a fairly large amount of actions performed in our shared time though I'm willing to hear out justification. That being said, I got called out for running too quickly so we better be on the up and up here if we're going by that metric of fairness.

 

[Painus]

While his clansman did whatever he planned on doing with the loot, Leandros ran upstairs to search for some kind of credit stash and valuable-looking family heirlooms.

This shows that I was upstairs before that turn.

he mulled as he pressed himself against the wall of the merchant's house,

Showing Toland was by the merchant’s house from which we initially attacked.

activating both blades Jedrek would stand on the other side of the street to the entrance of the alley, creating a 30 foot distance between the two.

Jedrek is down the alley 30 feet, not meters, so my bad. He’s ten meters from Toland while he was in the open.

While she was not in an ideal position for this maneuver being in a fairly open and flat area that was the city square,

Hitting the deck with her bulky weapon and kicking out the bipod to provide much needed stability for accuracy the agent sent a two beeps to Jedrek's comm.

According to her scope he was 50 meters away. Aiming quickly, Jacki let loose a slew of nine bolts in three round automatic bursts. Trigger discipline was key. All it took was a hair's breath of pressure to get out a deadly burst at any foe. Aiming the first burst for the mans legs, the second for his back and the third slightly to the right of him to try and cut off a dodging point and force his footing to at least some closer to her more melee focused ally.

Jacki is in the square, which was at the end of the alley. She goes prone, sets her weapon up, aims, then lets loose three three-round volleys at carefully-targeted areas. This would, at the minimum, take maybe 5-6 seconds to shoot (confirmed by Loco), and that’s after you set up.

Not waiting for the black-robed Sith to even fully approach and begin speaking, Toland instantly bolted away from him, ducking left a couple meters forward into the house that the Mandalorians had entered earlier.

Toland bolts left into the house where we were at, since he was relatively close by to our position.

Moving forward a couple meters and hearing the agent open fire, he ducked left into the house that the Mandalorians had entered earlier.

Toland then dodges before you start shooting and pulls Jedrek into the path of the bolts.

Leandros hustled over to a second-floor window to look outside, rifle at the ready.

Leandros reacted to Toland’s initial attack, which occurred before you guys had arrived. He was already upstairs from post #13.

While this occurred, Leandros had been prepping a frag grenade for the saber-wielding Sith outside. As the prone figure began their volley – clearly without regard for the safety of the Sith - Leandros threw the grenade.

Cooking the grenade occurs while you set up, giving me ample time to actually do this.

Before his three shots, Leandros ducked completely out of view of the prone figure in the square, moving back a half-pace from the edge of the window.

It would take maybe a fraction of a second to move back. With the angle and distance you’re at, as well as the fact that I’m a floor above, it would not take much to be out of Jacki’s line of sight.

So, in summary, using the above quotes to supplement my argument:

1. Yes this is what happens first
2. No, I'm already upstairs as per this line "Leandros ran upstairs to search for some kind of credit stash and " from post #13. Effectively all I'm doing is cooking a grenade and tossing it and shooting in the time it takes for you to set up the bipod and the 5-6 seconds it'll take for you to the 9 shots (confirmed by Loco). As I'm simply aiming and shooting from a window, no drastic measures need to be taken for me to be out of your line of sight as you're lying prone on the ground and I'm a level above you. You'd have to completely reorient in order to even have me in your scope while Richie is right below me. It is not unrealistic to say that I can get three shots off at a man-sized target from ten meters away.
3. Shal is running left, not right and he has edited so he's running after you start shooting. Keep in mind the distance you're shooting from - average bolt speed is 35 m/s so he'll have a chance to jump out of the way while you're committed to the action of firing all 9 rounds
4. I really do not see a way for Richie to get outta this one. While your shots would take a little over a second, mine and Rud's would take .28 seconds to reach him at this distance, meaning that he has to react quickly to shots coming from above and below in less than half a second, on top of a frag grenade being thrown at him. He is being pulled by Toland into your six bolts, making movement difficult and would probably require some degree of concentration to break the hold. It is entirely feasible to believe that one can snap three shots off at a man-sized target ten meters away.

For reference, enjoy a map. Not drawn to scale. Ranges are as written.

@BlackJack @Richie B. @Shalken @Ecclessey

 

[mikhail-]

Everything sounds correct to me, although I wouldn't count Aria as knocked out, just scarred and deformed /s. Doubt she will be doing any fighting, but I don't think she is as firm to the floor as you guys are making it out.

 

[Shalken]

Everything sounds correct to me, although I wouldn't count Aria as knocked out, just scarred and deformed /s. Doubt she will be doing any fighting, but I don't think she is as firm to the floor as you guys are making it out.

According to the tech rules on stun weapons,

Shots to the unarmored face/torso are a KO.

Toland shot Aria in the lower back with a medium stun weapon, and she was not wearing armour in that area. She is knocked out for the rest of the fight.

 

[Eccles]

yo @Richie B. I have a hard time believing your char goes from "sabers ready because I expect a fight" to "omfg my intended victim moved so I gotta bolt expecting imminent and certain doom".

It seems -extremely- meta to me.

 

[Richie B.]

@Ecclessey so here is the logic in my decision. My character knows there are still two mandalorian's out wanting to kill sith, and entering a alley where he doesn't know where those two characters are isn't a smart move. Like I expressed in the post it doesn't take a genius to know alley's are dangerous especially as from his point of view this guy is one of the Mandalorian's that just throw a grenade into a crowd and if he is caught surrounded by them in a alley there would be few options for him except to die.

Like I had posted he expected a fight not someone who would run away deeper into a alley, who just knocked out a sith. Smells like a trap to me IC which is pretty logical considering since all he knows is Mandos are going around trying to kill sith

 

[Eccles]

You went into that alley knowing all those same things, so the sudden and -extremely convenient- epiphany is whack. In fact, the moment you guys left the rooftop you knew you had mando's there.. so why not leave then?

You intended to engage and moved in the distinct coordinated posts towards it. You then got ambushed and decided to backtrack with the reason being some epiphany that is obviously timed based on the OOC meta knowledge you were indeed walking into a trap.

Now, perhaps if you dropped those two lightsabers and the weight of them wouldn't slow you down I think we can come to an understanding.

 

[Richie B.]

I never stated I was heading straight into the alley though only ready for a fight. But there wasn't a fight, he arrived there to find another sith who he sees has been taken down. Alley's are known kill zones anyone with tactical training understands that. Now if Toland had stand there and gotten shot maybe Jedrek would go in since there would be no indication of any funny business. But as that didn't happen he has to think ahead why would someone run deeper into a place if they are just going to fight anyway.

Tactically it isn't smart to let your opponent decide the battlefield so he is just doing what anyone with tactical training would do. Assess the situation and react.

 

[Eccles]

Hmmm, I'm afraid I'll have to report your post for metagaming @Richie B.

 

[Richie B.]

@Ecclessey alright but I would say it is a reasonable action my guy took even if the ambush didn't happen never want to let someone decide the battlefield

 

[Phoenix]

Admin Ruling:

@Richie B. that post is completely based on metagaming and needs to be rewritten.

And if you're wondering how I know it is meta it's because your character didn't make a single mention of being concerned about a trap in your prior post. There was no concern for it, no consideration of foreign territory, and nothing at all that would indicate he was on the look out for it. The only point where your character began to think about a trap was after you OOC read that your opponents were going to set a trap. That's the definition of metagaming.

I'll also say that you need to be very careful what you put in your rewrite or I'm going to have to come back in here again. You're going to be very hard pressed to make it out of attacks coming from multiple sides without metagaming, and if it's metagaming again, the ruling won't be for a rewrite. @Ecclessey

 

[Richie B.]

@Ecclessey @Painus @Shalken

Hopefully this works for you guys character almost dead and the lightsabers are out in the open.

Also mind giving my partner time to edit his post

 

[BlackJack]

I appreciate your patience guys, I've edited to match Richie's changes

 

[mikhail-]

According to the tech rules on stun weapons,
Toland shot Aria in the lower back with a medium stun weapon, and she was not wearing armour in that area. She is knocked out for the rest of the fight.

Thanks for telling me or else I wouldn't have known! Be merciful to my body, haha.

 

[Eccles]

I need a 24-hour extension due to IRL. @Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

I need a 24-hour extension due to IRL. @Phoenix

Approved

 

[Richie B.]

@Shalken So I would like to ask you take down the firing from the back. As Jedrek was never stated to be within the direct firing range within BJ's attack. As Jedrek is stated to be outside of the alleyway and Jacki is stated to be towards his right firing into the alleyway. And as Jedrek never got into said alleyway it would not be possible for him to get shot in the back.

As for the other shots that were sent at him, I probably should have been more specific but after getting throw by the grenade and the action he took. The timeline would have he be behind the wall before the other bolts would hit.

 

[Shalken]

6. If an attack is not responded to by an opponent, it is automatically a hit. Even if there is an obvious reason that the attack would not hit, it must be stated in the rebuttal post. Failure to do so will result in damages.

Even if Jedrek does not get hit by Jackie’s shots, every single attack from the Mandos is an auto hit regardless of his positioning or movement. I have issued a report.

Note: A report should not be the first action in the face of differing views. Patient and rational discussion with one's opponent should always be the first course in addressing disagreement with reports only coming at a later time, if necessary. The one exception is auto-hit reporting. If an opponent makes a defense that is obviously inadequate (an extreme example would be someone saying that they catch a 5,000kg stone with their bare hands to avoid all damage), rather than give the opponent a chance to edit their post so they can evade the damage, it may be reported.