Sith Dark Templar

[Brand]

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I am curious as to how we are going to match the Sith's new Dark Templar, assuming we are approved to do so. If all Dark Templar spots are filled with PCs the Imperium will have 13 Lord-level characters within its ranks compared to the Jedi's 5. I hope we are allowed to match this somehow, whether that be through the Jedi Shadows which I haven't heard anything about, or...?

Just thought I'd ask since I noticed that. If this has already been addressed or is a non-issue (which it shouldn't be) lemme know!

 

[Green Ranger]

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I think if we're going to do anything at all, it can't be solely reactive based on the foundation of the Dark Templar. I'm against the idea of the Jedi Shadow, simply because the typical Jedi in the NJO should be more like a Jedi Shadow on a day to day basis anyway - we need to reinforce the idea that Jedi in this era don't just sit back and meditate in temples, they go out and actively confront Dark Siders.

Still, if everyone still feels we need more Master or Council level Jedi, we first need to ask how many of our current non-Council members are actually ready for the responsibility of the rank. That said, simply tacking on the rank of Master to more characters isn't going to do much for us as a faction, so I've got a proposal:

The Jedi Domestic Council

With the steady increase of Jedi activity through the galaxy and the escalating conflict, the responsibilities of the Jedi High Council became stretched thin. Tackling both galactic matters and the significant task of overseeing the various Jedi temples, the High Council eventually decreed the creation of a new, second Jedi Council to take on small matters closer to home. The Domestic Council consists of five seats, with four of these given to Jedi Masters of esteem and wise in their respective fields of Battle, Lore, Diplomacy and the mysteries of the Force. The fifth seat is occupied by the Prime Envoy of the High Council, who relays the matters of the Domestic Council to the High Council before every meeting, and serves in a similar manner to the Domestic Council as the Grandmaster does to the High Council, having executive power over local matters.

Each of the Domestic Councillors oversees the training, operation and maintenance of the four Jedi temples, and is expected to actively participate in both the tutelage of students, and the administration of each facility. Furthermore, s each temple is specifically dedicated to one of the four branches of Jedi tutelage, they are expected to be both highly skilled and learned in their branches of learning. As such, each role is given an honorific title to reflect this.

Prime Envoy and Domestic Grandmaster:

Archivist and Headmaster of Tython:

High Consul and Headmaster of Empress Teta:

Prime Diplomat and Headmaster of Coruscant:

Quartermaster and Headmaster of the Light of the Force:

​

 

[GABA]

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The Dark Templer members as so far are Xeno's and Mars' additional characters, for a little while, it looked like a self promotion to me imo. And I also don't think we have the numbers or the skill set at the moment to be promoting some players to these higher ranking positions. I'm not saying they're incompetent, but with most of the NJO's members are fairly new to the sight, and they still need time to get used to how things work.

I'm not worried about the Dark Templar or the Sith's master/darth level count, hence most of their masters are inactive anyways, their roster isn't as big as it looks.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

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I’m not clear on why there’s a question here as to whether this would be allowed, unless you mean allowed by Apollo (it sounds to me like you’re asking about admin approval). Having more Master-level characters, or Lord-level characters in the case of the Sith, isn’t something that would require admin approval. The Sith self-regulate that number; they put their own restriction on Lord-level characters because, throughout the timeline, they’ve only wanted Darth to be something that’s truly earned for exceptional amounts of work.

The Jedi haven’t had lots of Masters because we’ve sucked at that.

 

[Brand]

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Yes, my initial question was whether this had admin backing; I know we've had problems with Masters, but I thought it made sense for the Lord/Councilor positions to be regulated by the Admins in the event of topheaviness and unbalance. I'm not a huge fan of the Domestic Council proposal though it could be beneficial to the faction as a whole. It seems like a redundancy of the Council.

Even though many of the Sith's Masters are inactive, the fact that the Empire is bringing more Lord-level characters to bear is not something we can ignore whether we have the man-power to accommodate Councilor/Master characters at the moment or not. I have a few site veterans who we may be able to bring on board, and we also need to be on the lookout for people ready to immediately start at Knight/Master and those new site members who have the potential to be assets in the war as a whole. I'm not saying we start going gung-ho with this, but we have to be aware for future battles that we can be severely overmatched power wise, especially if we lose some Masters/Councilors on Teta.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

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I agree, for the most part. I’m not in the camp that says “we need more masters because the Sith are getting more Lords,” but I am in the camp that says the Jedi need more Jedi Masters and really highly skilled Jedi Knights anyway. We’ve always been lacking in this department. There are two huge issues in terms of member activity:

• We’re really bottom heavy, and we don’t give Padawans enough to do or give them enough reason to really want to be involved in the faction other than the fact that they want to be Jedi.
• The people at the top have to take on lots and lots of students, or we have to rely on classes, and that’s both unfair to the teachers and to the students. This can be alleviated a bit by missions and field-based training rather than so much classroom training, but this faction has historically spent more time talking about that kind of training than actually implementing it. That’s everyone throughout the history of this timeline, not just this group by any means.

Those will need to be alleviated. There’s an overarching reason for some of the problems I just mentioned, though, and it’s also going to be the reason why you’d have a hard time bringing in site veterans to the faction. It’s the question of why, i.e. “why do I want to be part of the Jedi?” What do we do? What do we offer? The majority of time spent in this faction is in training threads, and then people have their personal plotlines. We have a limited number of missions and we don’t do enough in the war, and we’re not proactive enough in the war.

If those issues can be solved, then that energizes Padawans, it gives them opportunities to get better and gain more skills so they can be a higher level person, and it gets other people interested in the faction.

 

[Brand]

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+1 for your post, Bac, I couldn't agree more.

I think a lot of our issues can be knocked out by us taking a more aggressive stance in the war. Obviously this will not solve our numbers issues, but by us hyping up battles not just for Councilors and Masters but involving Padawans in PvP against Acolytes in missions and skirmishes of their own we begin to fix our morale and motivation problems (they also gain battlefield experience). Yes, our Padawans need to be trained and taught by their Masters and Councilors, but we also need to let them develop on their own, with their fellow Padawans, and with the enemy. The Sith don't have as many acolytes as us, but they have their fair share of inexperienced people and I feel like us tossing Padawans and Acolytes into battle (albeit guided by Councilors, Masters, and experienced Knights) we have a more hands on solution for Padawans and hands off for the vets. On this site and others I did my best learning not in a rigid training environment but when I was given the freedom to learn from my mistakes, have a character or two killed off, and know what the Order entails.

I feel like we have a really solid council at the moment and if we set our minds to working out our next move in the war as a unified whole than that will translate to our success during the campaigns we engage in. Weiss has told me and Apollo for the Chiss to join us we need to get our act together. What many people see as a long shot on the site I see as a very attainable goal if we pool the assets of the GA which have been severely underestimated and adopt a more Sreeya-style Jedi Order in not only our actions but also the philosophy we teach our students. The pacifist Order has gotten us where we are today, and all we can do now is take steps forward, try and attract veterans AND new people alike, and communicate as a Council.

 

[Empress]

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As per Bac, the biggest issue has always been getting : the flow" so to speak. and there is an added difficulty for this too....sure add more knights and master- but a crap knight or master " be it ic/or oocly you can actually hurt the jedi a great deal more than the Sith have to deal with...the sith have natural ways to weed out undesirables- and they have wiggle room for anything from the chaotic neutral to Gray Sith to all out psychopath- jedi have their variants but not nearly as much wiggleroom.

that said one can't also just promote for the hell of promoting- opening the floodgates can be just as hurtful.


however one thing one really may consider is encouraging not only activity of padawans, and knight- but also encouraging some to develop into their roles better as well is to really really pick up on observing others and watching how they as players, and characters evolve and approaching them- and being more active with that- this will help establish a foundation that there is an ability to reach higher. when it comes to things like this it's a lot more politics than one may expect in trying to establish a group rhythm/ goal/sense of direction/identity etc than people realize. keep the people down, they leave, elevate too many too fast just for the sake of elevating you loose quality and open up more conflicts etc... not an easy feat, so you need to sort of start by establishing that feel and start " slightly" slower at first

thats my take at anyrate


also when taking a more aggressive stance on the war...


more aggressive stance =/= magic wielding commando war hawks THats something Ive seen actually hurt the jedi more and more over the many years is when they shift TOO far to the battle minded- they stop being jedi collectively, more wiggle room in this era yes- but you dont want to breed the idea that crosses that line from being active- to being battle born super soldiers that know nothing else.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

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I can't reply to everything, since I'm about to head out for a bit, but I do want to point out one thing: this really hasn't been a pacifist Order. We haven't fallen into that trap this timeline. Our lack of action has been due to a lack of leadership (which Apollo is beginning to rectify well) and, because of that, a lack of skill amongst the ranks. We also need to make it clear who these Jedi are, how they can have those sagely outlooks while still kicking ass and taking names.

Not to sound arrogant, but the right model, I think, for Jedi in this era would be Jhon Cordatus and Skhai Baatch. They're both major proponents of the Eightfold Path, and they're very sagely, but the Eightfold Path has the concept of Right Action in it. They'll kill the shit out of you if they need to.

 

[Empress]

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:right intent, right action, right mindfulness being the most important things when looking at it in a warriors sense

 

[Brand]

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Not to sound condescending, but the Eightfold path is driving prospective students away. Let me put it bluntly: your philosophy is boring. I appreciate the work you and your characters have put into it, but, as Adena mentioned, there is quite a bit of wriggle room in this timeline. We can make the Jedi as we please. Which means we can take it away from what has failed in the past and make them interesting.

The Jedi don't have to be warmongers. They just can't be pacifists. Sitting on one's hands is fine and dandy, given one isn't at war. Right now, your Jedi are sages preaching peace and prosperity. We don't need that, even if they have provisions for killing. We need warriors. We need to focus on the end game here.

I understand your reluctance to change, especially considering that you spent so much time on that write-up, but one of your favorite quotes is; change is necessary for growth. You want to see a good story, right? You want the Rpers here to have fun, right? Then let them. Currently, your philosophy is losing a war. By losing the war thus far in such an overwhelming show of incompetence, you drive members away. We can say it is the leadership's fault, but Bac, hate to tell you this, you are the leadership. We have to stop avoiding the problem. What you're doing is failing. Not only that, but it's uninteresting.

A winning mentality gets people interested. The Jedi were amazing under Sreeya, and the Hutts? They outstripped everything else. They were scripted to lose, essentially, and pulled out a victory. Win, win, win, and the stories in between were brilliant. I feel like right now we have to rebuild the Order, not retool it.

This is not an attack on either of you, it is an attack on what I see as a losing philosophy. I am throwing this idea out for the betterment of the faction and site as a whole.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I’m going to bluntly say that you don’t know what you’re talking about. First and foremost, the Eightfold Path is not the guiding principle of this entire faction right now. It’s not well understood, and it hasn’t been pushed by this Council. Second of all, the Eightfold Path is not dogmatic. The entire point of the Eightfold Path is that within those philosophical precepts are an infinite number of ways with which to live your life as a Jedi. The key point of the Eightfold Path in terms of the war is Right Action and Right Mindfulness. Are you mindful of your actions? If yes, then you’re good to go. Can you justify the action you’re about to take? If yes, good. Do that. That includes being a mother ****ing badass and killing some Sith.

Additionally, I’m not the leadership. Apollo is the leadership. Before that, Pros was the leadership. And Prancing Yawn. And DeathToll. For a month it was me. Prior to that, it was Denzein. Prior to that it was Will. Out of the 12 months of this timeline, I was the FL for 1 month of it. The other 11 months? I was not the leader. The months prior to me being FL did not see me pushing the Eightfold Path as a philosophy.

The Eightfold Path is not followed by most Jedi in the faction, nor is it understood. If more Jedi followed the Eightfold Path, they could understand that they can be wise and sagely and be Kyle Katarn badasses. The two are not mutually exclusive because the Eightfold Path is not dogma. It is not a set of rules. It’s an idea, and you use that idea to live your life however you see fit.

And by the way, Jedi need to be sages and philosophers too. Do all of them need to be? Of course not, but they still need to exist. Those sages and philosophers are still key to the war effort. Why? Think of it in terms of Jedi Guardians and Jedi Consulars. Both are good in combat, but they bring two different things. A Jedi Guardian is going to often focus on using the lightsaber as their tool for war. The Jedi Consular is often going to to focus on the Force as their tool of war.

Sage =/= pacifist. Warrior =/= unwise or unsagely. The Eightfold Path lets you be both in whatever way you see fit. So please, know what you’re talking about before you decide to be ignorantly condescending. The Battle Master not understanding this doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence about the war effort.

EDIT: By the way, you said how Adena mentioned wiggle room. Ask her and she'll also advocate for greater use of the Eightfold Path BECAUSE it offers so much wiggle room.

 

[Green Ranger]

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I think I might do an article on common misconceptions of the NJO next. It seems the biggest problem in the Jedi at the moment is they're operating like this is the Jedi Order of the prequels, who were complete muppets.

 

[GABA]

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Good idea Boli. Its definitely something I come across too frequently especially with newer members.

 

[Green Ranger]

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On another note, Bac, where is the Eightfold Path? I can't seem to find it in the Jedi boards.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

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On another note, Bac, where is the Eightfold Path? I can't seem to find it in the Jedi boards.

It's not in the Jedi boards. That's why Trell's assertion that the Eightfold Path is losing the war is a bit mind-boggling. The only place you can find it right now is Jhon's profile.

 

[Green Ranger]

It's not in the Jedi boards. That's why Trell's assertion that the Eightfold Path is losing the war is a bit mind-boggling. The only place you can find it right now is Jhon's profile.

Small wonder not enough people know about it if it's so inaccessible. I'd like to add it to the Archives, or if you want you can psot it yourself, but it needs to be in the Jedi boards if we're going to even think about reinforcing that philosophy.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Small wonder not enough people know about it if it's so inaccessible. I'd like to add it to the Archives, or if you want you can psot it yourself, but it needs to be in the Jedi boards if we're going to even think about reinforcing that philosophy.

I agree, but all we've ever done is talk about whether it should be a core faction philosophy rather than advocating it as one.

If we're going to use it, then that write up in the profile would need to be rewritten a bit. It was written to flow with Jhon's profile, not to be a write up for general consumption.

 

[Green Ranger]

I agree, but all we've ever done is talk about whether it should be a core faction philosophy rather than advocating it as one.

If we're going to use it, then that write up in the profile would need to be rewritten a bit. It was written to flow with Jhon's profile, not to be a write up for general consumption.

Regardless of whether it's a core philosophy or a minority one, it's still a Jedi philosophy. If we decide to make it a core teaching we can make it a sticky later on.

As I said, I'm happy to do the work to implement it, but if you'd prefer to do it yourself then that's fine too.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Regardless of whether it's a core philosophy or a minority one, it's still a Jedi philosophy. If we decide to make it a core teaching we can make it a sticky later on.

As I said, I'm happy to do the work to implement it, but if you'd prefer to do it yourself then that's fine too.

When I say core, I just mean one that we push stronger than other philosophies. The thing with the Eightfold Path is that just because we say it’s important and something people should consider following doesn’t mean that they then have to follow it. It’s not a requirement. It’s all still a choice what philosophical outlook your character has. The benefit of the Eightfold Path, though, is that wiggle room that Adena talked about. You can really be whatever Jedi you want to be while following the Eightfold Path, which is why it can work as a key faction philosophy.

I'll be working with Adena to put together a proper thread for it, since she's the Sage Master.