Successful Negotiations

[Nefieslab]

Okay so @Tsunami - issue with your post is simple

You already locked in my post where I say;

Thankfully smoke worked both ways, obscuring their vision of him as well so he leaned out from cover and threw the grenade, unknowingly at the same time that Vila threw his frag grenade. With no one able to take any decent shots at him because of the smoke, he was able to really put some distance on his grenade, causing it to sail through the air past Vila's thrown frag grenade to land in the middle of the open doorway, some 25 meters away.
-Snip-
As soon as the grenade left his hand he would open fire down the corridor with his pistol, firing twice and releasing four blaster bolts in a short-delay burst fire pattern to lay down suppressing fire but also to distract from the noise of the grenade landing one second before it's fuse would cause it to explode.

So by posting and not disputing (getting me to edit) or reporting, you have confirmed that this has happened as I have written it - you have confirmed that the grenade landed where I threw it with 1 second remaining before it exploded as you finished throwing your own frag grenade and that the noise evidence of said grenade landing would be masked by the blaster fire.

Therefore "closing the door" is not only meta (you moved to keep it open to form a killzone in your own last post, which has also been locked in, and your character should have no idea a grenade has landed there) but you lack the time to do so considering you are also locked in giving Crystal instructions before you thought to add in this defense

By not reporting my post as you disagreed with it or having it changed, you have locked yourself into taking the hit from the concussion grenade within it's blast radius - attempting to add in meta defenses when you are time locked into other actions (talking, walking and setting up killzone with an open door) doesn't change that

Equally - deciding that the ceiling has collapsed is also not possible for you to do. You locked in what Ediwa posted and that was that the hole was 2m, not 13m as you claim. Therefore Jay is not falling through the ceiling.

And while I appreciate you attempting to be a moderating force here, @Algarus , all players involved in PvP need to be able to defend their own posts and their own actions. If you are unable or unwilling to do so @Tsunami then I will have no choice but to report the post and go for the autohit that way

 

[Algarus]

Okay so @Tsunami - issue with your post is simple

You already locked in my post where I say;



So by posting and not disputing (getting me to edit) or reporting, you have confirmed that this has happened as I have written it - you have confirmed that the grenade landed where I threw it with 1 second remaining before it exploded as you finished throwing your own frag grenade and that the noise evidence of said grenade landing would be masked by the blaster fire.

Therefore "closing the door" is not only meta (you moved to keep it open to form a killzone in your own last post, which has also been locked in, and your character should have no idea a grenade has landed there) but you lack the time to do so considering you are also locked in giving Crystal instructions before you thought to add in this defense

By not reporting my post as you disagreed with it or having it changed, you have locked yourself into taking the hit from the concussion grenade within it's blast radius - attempting to add in meta defenses when you are time locked into other actions (talking, walking and setting up killzone with an open door) doesn't change that

Equally - deciding that the ceiling has collapsed is also not possible for you to do. You locked in what Ediwa posted and that was that the hole was 2m, not 13m as you claim. Therefore Jay is not falling through the ceiling.

And while I appreciate you attempting to be a moderating force here, @Algarus , all players involved in PvP need to be able to defend their own posts and their own actions. If you are unable or unwilling to do so @Tsunami then I will have no choice but to report the post and go for the autohit that way

Actually I disagree, Ediwa interrupted his own action by blowing the charge and not moving. He refused to explain nor change it. I asked several individuals with varying degrees of experience on this, and from what I was told this is correct. Ediwa blew the charge, didn't move, and has interrupted his action by falling through the floor. Had he moved this would not have happened. We can discuss the granade, because let's be fair timing of actions get confusing. But, I am certain that we have treated Ediwa's situation correctly given how I have seen other pvps go down.

Tsunami will be able participating, but I asked him to remain out ooc for the time being, and I don't see a issue by speaking for both of us as we are a team.

 

[Nefieslab]

Actually I disagree, Ediwa interrupted his own action by blowing the charge and not moving. He refused to explain nor change it. I asked several individuals with varying degrees of experience on this, and from what I was told this is correct. Ediwa blew the charge, didn't move, and has interrupted his action by falling through the floor. Had he moved this would not have happened. We can discuss the granade, because let's be fair timing of actions get confusing. But, I am certain that we have treated Ediwa's situation correctly given how I have seen other pvps go down.

No one disputed that only a 2m hole was created - you posted after that - so a 2m hole was created, nothing else. If you had disputed this then I could understand the insistence that a 13m hole was created.

As no 13m hole was created, I don't see how Ediwa has exploded himself. As per the tech rules on breaching charges, the charge is a square that explodes in a very tightly contained directional manner - see HERE. If this was any other explosive I might give some leeway but when a device's effects are literally stated to be directional in nature, I don't buy it

 

[Algarus]

No one disputed that only a 2m hole was created - you posted after that - so a 2m hole was created, nothing else. If you had disputed this then I could understand the insistence that a 13m hole was created.

As no 13m hole was created, I don't see how Ediwa has exploded himself. As per the tech rules on breaching charges, the charge is a square that explodes in a very tightly contained directional manner - see HERE. If this was any other explosive I might give some leeway but when a device's effects are literally stated to be directional in nature, I don't buy it

The hole he made was 4 m, the radius was 2m as stated in his post. I think Tsunade mistyped meters instead of feet as I was breaking it down to him.

 

[Nefieslab]

The hole he made was 4 m, the radius was 2m as stated in his post. I think Tsunade mistyped meters instead of feet as I was breaking it down to him.

Huh yeah you right - radius of 2m so diameter of 4m, I getcha on that, my bad

Still doesn't make it 13m though

 

[Algarus]

Huh yeah you right - radius of 2m so diameter of 4m, I getcha on that, my bad

Still doesn't make it 13m though

I don't disagree, but my hacking skills are lacking so I can't hack into Tsunami's account and change things.

 

[Nefieslab]

I don't disagree, but my hacking skills are lacking so I can't hack into Tsunami's account and change things.

lol!

Free your mind bruh! :P

 

[Algarus]

lol!

Free your mind bruh! :P

Sadly I'm just a cog in the system. But I do want to clarify going forward what is the proper way to handle something like Ediwa's post. As I was told, due to him not moving, his action doesn't complete because he interrupts himself by committing the action. Do we just report it? As I was told the way we have done it here was correct. Given how rarely I do pvp, I'm always at a loss for this sort of thing.

 

[Algarus]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the right about this. I'll have Tsunami fix the foot thing.

 

[Nefieslab]

Sadly I'm just a cog in the system. But I do want to clarify going forward what is the proper way to handle something like Ediwa's post. As I was told, due to him not moving, his action doesn't complete because he interrupts himself by committing the action. Do we just report it? As I was told the way we have done it here was correct. Given how rarely I do pvp, I'm always at a loss for this sort of thing.

You can report it or post the autohit landing - but the reason why Ediwa didn't have to say "and he moved back" in this case is due to what he used. It's specifically stated to be very directional in nature and it's all pointed away

If it were like a satchel charge or a bunch of grenades? 100% I would agree and you could assume this as an autohit and do as Tsunami's done

If it's a clear cut autohit - like if you shoot at them and they don't acknowledge that - then you don't need to report, just post

 

[Algarus]

The auto hit is up in the air, but I don't see any real issue with what you stated. Ediwa though I am almost certain hit by his own blast because he gave next to no info about moving once he put the charge. I'll have Tsunami correct his post and we can report it. I'd like to know that I got something right at least lol

 

[Nefieslab]

The auto hit is up in the air, but I don't see any real issue with what you stated. Ediwa though I am almost certain hit by his own blast because he gave next to no info about moving once he put the charge.

Except that it's an explosive device that in the tech write up states it has a very limited area of effect in the direction it's designed to hit - it's not got a blast effect behind it according to the write up and we gotta go by the write ups for tech

 

[Algarus]

Except that it's an explosive device that in the tech write up states it has a very limited area of effect in the direction it's designed to hit - it's not got a blast effect behind it according to the write up and we gotta go by the write ups for tech

The problem is he detonated it and never moved away. Hence why in arguing he falls. I'm fairly certain I am correct about this. Tsunami fixed the typo, so I'll go ahead and report it. We'll put this on hold for now.

 

[Algarus]

Does someone mind reporting Tsunami's post for the autohit? I'm at work atm, and my initial report was rejected.

 

[Nefieslab]

Does someone mind reporting Tsunami's post for the autohit? I'm at work atm, and my initial report was rejected.

Post reported @Tsunami
@Algarus
@Ediwa

With the other report by Algarus that is now 3 reports and this thread will be decided by the admins. I wish I could say it had been fun

 

[Loco]

Since both sides reported the same post, I'm just treating this as one report and the thread will continue. Also- dont do that. A pvp report should include relevant arguements and points of disagreement from BOTH sides AND use the proper report template.

Bottom Line Up Front: @Tsunami is significantly disoriented by the concussion grenade this round- more so than described in his current post but less so than full concussion grenade effects. @Ediwa falls to the ground in the wake of his det charge and is injured and disoriented, but concious and somewhat mobile. The blast causes significant damage to the room, filling it with smoke and rubble, knocks out the buildings power, and activates the fire suppression systems, plunging everyone into near total blackout and subjecting them all to chokingly thick fire suppression gasses and obnoxiously loud emergency alarms.

There will be no pvp bonus credits for this thread.


Nef, you've been around and in enough PvPs to know that this:

"By not reporting my post as you disagreed with it or having it changed, you have locked yourself into taking the hit from the concussion grenade..."

Is not at all how pvp posts work. Not even a little. PvP posts are all attempts that your opponent treats and reacts to appropriately. Just because you wanted that grenade to do something specific doesn't necessarily mean it will. I'll assume you just explained your position poorly, and aren't actually that ignorant of the pvp rules.

Now, on the subject of that grenade... if Tomic can make that throw, he needs to quit the Imperial War machine and try out for the Coruscant Coronas, or any other Intergalactic Major League Space-Baseball team he fancies. They'd be happy to have a godlike pitcher like that on the roster. To achieve that throw, 80 some odd feet down a hallway, through smoke, while leaning around a corner in the middle of a firefight, landing at a very precise location only a few feet in width, with exactly one second left on the timer... lolwut. In the words of a former SWRP Admin: "You're not that good." Nobody is that good. That attack attempt is one of the most ridiculous I've seen in some time.

No matter how ridiculous an attack is though, it still needs to be responded to appropriately. @Tsunami, you can't retcon something you already committed to just because it would be more convenient. If you neglected to close the door last round, then you cant say you were closing it this round without any stimuli to cause the change. That's deus ex machina, or defense by sheer luck, which are not permissible in pvp.

Last point... sorry @Ediwa. Your post clearly says you place the explosive on the ground and then detonate it. You don't take cover, you dont move away, you don't set yourself up for the aftermath in any way- all important things to consider if you're going to blow up the ground you're standing on. PvP posts should be clear and concise and describe exactly what you do and where you go- there's nothing in your post that indicates you went anywhere after you planted the charge. As for Nefs argument on the matter, I'm not sure what the direction of the blast has to do anything. If the floor gets blown out from underneath you, which directions the blast was focused is the least of the issues. People have suffered worse results for less obvious mistakes, but hopefully you survive this one to learn from it.


None of the issues I saw in this OOC should have led to reports. You guys are picking ridiculous hills to die on, and the behavior here in does not in any way reflect what we want to see in our pvp scene. Do better.


Ruling is final. Continue thread.

Loco out.

@Nefieslab @Tsunami @Algarus @Ediwa

 

[Algarus]

Loco, thank you for the ruling, and I apologize for the double reporting. Clearly I must have misread the instructions Syreea gave me on handling this. Given it's close to midnight and I have work tomorrow, I'm going to try and have a post done within the next 24 hours, because honestly I'm not certain how much time I have left at this moment and my brain is not up to par for math at the moment. Apologies for all the difficulties. @GABAdactyl

 

[Algarus]

@Ediwa Hey friend, is it alright if I get a post up before we continue? I believe I still have some time before I run out, unless I'm wrong.

 

[Algarus]

@GABAdactyl @Loco Sorry, it was really late when I posted and I was trying to ask for an extension on posting time.

 

[Painus]

@Ediwa Hey friend, is it alright if I get a post up before we continue? I believe I still have some time before I run out, unless I'm wrong.

You're not wrong. Your timer continues from Loco's ruling, not Tsunami's most recent post since the timer freezes the moment it's reported. @Ediwa, delete your post until it's actually your turn.