TF-1149

[Outlander]

The 60mil that was mentioned in an IC post and the Mandalorians accepted that number as "canon"

No. I'm the write up it says that this was already there, as well as in your IC thread mentioning it. Not to mention that a base of this size and magnitude would be a ton of credits, especially with an integrated shipyard.

Remember when the faction got fractioned in the rewrite? That could be indicative of the sheer drop off in employees. And this is mostly The Order now. You think that people who openly oppose the dominating galactic government will care about the bounty on their head? Regardless, all of these things are being brought up by you guys ex post facto. So much so, in fact, that our entire faction was forcibly evicted from our own planet of origin. If you question what we are up to this point, then you also question everything that has happened related to us beyond mere mention.

I'd say that brings up various other discrepancies, such as how your company could have such a far reach as it is while the most profitable areas are imperial owned and the Cartel, rulers of the next largest profitable area won't do business with you. Not to mention that even if you did have such a far reach of products, one warehouse isn't enough to keep up with possible demand and your profits will soon drop heavily without any suplementary income.

 

[Commissar Brett]

We'll wait to see our expansion request, until then, I would like to ask that we wait before further discussion

 

[Green Ranger]

It's actually a valid point that needs to be addressed, since the expansion request is pretty heavily reliant on you guys...y'know,, having the funding to be able to pull a new base out of nowhere.

Look, I'm all for keeping topics relevant at all, but the point about funding really is on topic. So you'll need to actually justify it before we go ahead with determining the expansion reuqest. Given this base is built with that funding, here's as good a place as any to have that discussion.

 

[Prudence]

It's actually a valid point that needs to be addressed, since the expansion request is pretty heavily reliant on you guys...y'know,, having the funding to be able to pull a new base out of nowhere.

Look, I'm all for keeping topics relevant at all, but the point about funding really is on topic. So you'll need to actually justify it before we go ahead with determining the expansion reuqest. Given this base is built with that funding, here's as good a place as any to have that discussion.

The KES, after all the Mandos did to them at Sirius Primaris, still has roughly 60 million in liquid assets, and an undeterminable amount more in non-liquidated assets which they can liquidate. That should be MORE than enough to construct the facility. So funding should not be an issue with this.

 

[Outlander]

Let me break the KES financed down as I see them:
- The Rock
- We don't really have good estimates on how much installations like this cost. So, i'll make some guesstimates here. Taking the price for one Golan Space Defense SpaceGun, 26,191,000 seems a good place to start. While this is rather high considering this area is intentionally bareboned, it seems a bit low considering the shipyards here, so for the sake of reason, i'll put it at 40+ million. Even this is low considering your lack of a merchant fleet (I don't see one in the KES writeup), the need to mine out an asteroid, the need to pay any merchants you hire for silence, and the fact that none of the main factions will deal with you, and many individual planets and groups won't due to your high bounty.
- The Siren
- I'm including this here due to it's inclusion in the expansion request. I'll use a Nebulon B Frigate as a sort of base here. 8,500,000 credits for one unit. Taking into consideration a Siren is larger than it by almost 100 meters, you'll obviously be buying your materials either covertly or off market, and due to the prolonged time needed to build one due to the yard size, i'm bumping that to 13-15 million.

So already your original 60 million is down to 5 million. From there, let's talk about your business.

- Contracts
- Due to the loss of Sirius Primaris, any outstanding contracts with dealers and individual groups will be out. That means penalties. For the sake of argument, i'm calling it as more or less 10 million in potential losses due to your own admittance of the corporations far reach. And you could argue that the loss isn't felt yet, which is possibly true. But that money is going to be taken at some point and that's pretty much unavoidable.

- Something that goes with contracts is your contracts with your employees. Any that remain are going to need to be paid. That's substantially less than the other charges, so i'll lump those in with fees to continue running on Daedalus, general upkeep, and miscellaneous expenses. Let's call that all 5 million.

No money left, and you're in the red.

You don't have any assets to liquidate either. Any supplies in storage would go to outstanding contracts before their termination.

Food for thought, none of this takes into account your massive loss on the Cartel deal, putting you financially bankrupt already.

Edited: Due to Bumbing not being applicable here

 

[Prudence]

Actually, the Cartel didn't have access to our assets yet, and ICly they know nothing of this. So lets say this, we never specifically stated any contracts we had, that would be facing penalties. All our alliances or contracts have gone to shit. We have none left to violate, so that portion is null and void. You can't assume contracts, without writeups Outlander. We have assets to liquidate since we don't have contracts. So that leaves us with a good 10 million left. Make it 11 Million if Prudii were to chip in his million. Enough to hold out for now, after building the asteroid base AND the siren.

 

[Outlander]

Actually, the Cartel didn't have access to our assets yet, and ICly they know nothing of this. So lets say this, we never specifically stated any contracts we had, that would be facing penalties. All our alliances or contracts have gone to shit. We have none left to violate, so that portion is null and void. You can't assume contracts, without writeups Outlander. We have assets to liquidate since we don't have contracts. So that leaves us with a good 10 million left. Make it 11 Million if Prudii were to chip in his million. Enough to hold out for now, after building the asteroid base AND the siren.

You spent tons of money making those ships for them, and then they didn't pay near what you paid to build them. A ton of loss.

Just because a contract's gone down the drain doesn't mean it doesn't apply. The contracts with Sirius Primaris would still be there, as well as any non specified ones across the galaxy which are implied in your writeup and tech profiles.

That makes the liquidation still out. And even then whatever you could liquidate would be small arms and basically only that. Not much profit.

You also failed to mention several key parts to my summary.

 

[Prudence]

Okay I thought you meant the Vesajilic deal we backed out on.

There are no specified or non specified contracts. And you can't make any up for us. We have stated none, therefore there are none. Sirius Primaris government was an alliance, not contract, we lost nothing with that.

Liquidation is still on the table.

Please readdress whatever I missed, because I believed I covered it all.

 

[Outlander]

So you are, even with the on hand credits, in the hole for possible billions.

House Atlantic is listed as primary, and was considered to be a big contract.

From the MG-270 writeup:
"When a weapon has been used as long as the MG-270 has been, people begin to ask why. The answer is extremely simply: Moar Bullets. This weapon has seen use everywhere (as in, EVERYWHERE) because of its versatility and reliability."

This is what i'm referring to with implied contracts. And to say you had none means that you have no reason to have so many credits in the first place.

Maybe, like, a mil? For all of it.

The miscellaneous aspects, as well as the Siren cost and the upkeep of the group.

 

[Prudence]

Okay so I'm not sure how you equate us not stating we have contracts to us not having money. We have nowhere stated that we have contracts ICly, or oocly, and you yourself are a stickler for no write up, no happen.

The section where the House Atlantic is listed is "Allies/Contracts:" key being "Allies" and "/" which means they're not all contracts. House Atlantic was a primary Ally.

I'm not sure what you're getting at from the MG-270.

The siren cost + the base cost takes us down to 5 mill. okay, still enough to hold out for a little while till we regain our footing. Assuming that the KES personnel gets their pay cut slightly, which I mean what are they gonna do with credits rn? Spend them? We're hiding.

We can operate off of 5 mill in hiding for enough time.

 

[Outlander]

Please address your massive loss of credits in the Hutt deal.

Without any contracts, you have no manufacturing business. No credits.

It just says primary.

Most if not all of your tech says it's used widely by lots of groups.

You need to pay your personnel unless they're volunteers, which they aren't. Not to mention food, air, water, clothing, entertainment. The things needed to keep a group satisfied. Your manufacturing end wouldn't be nearly as loyal as your order end.

Edit: Soemthing i'd like to add is that every contract that went bad would have to be refunded, as well as a possible cancellation fee.

 

[Prudence]

Yes and all of that has been previously addressed. After the Hutt deal, after going to shit with Renelo, after stopping to sell things to the galaxy, after all that, in this moment, we have 60 mill in liquid assets left. That is a current number. Plus, non-liquidated assets. 5 mill would give us enough to operate a base for a suitable amount of time until we bring in more income.

 

[Outlander]

You have failed to address the contracts, which do in fact excist. They do for every manufacturing group. You didn't address your substantial credit loss, since there's no way you had several billion lying around to pay it off, and I know it will show in your past threads if I go looking. You didn't address providing the basic needs to your people. You didn't address the upkeep of your ships.

And you still don't have non-liquid assets.

 

[Prudence]

Okay so you can't accuse me of skipping stuff, I'll break yours into points:

"You have failed to address the contracts, which do in fact excist. They do for every manufacturing group. You didn't address your substantial credit loss, since there's no way you had several billion lying around to pay it off, and I know it will show in your past threads if I go looking. You didn't address providing the basic needs to your people. You didn't address the upkeep of your ships.


You have failed to address the contracts, which do in fact excist. They do for every manufacturing group. They don't. I said they don't. There is no write up that says they do, therefore, they don't.

You didn't address your substantial credit loss, since there's no way you had several billion lying around to pay it off, and I know it will show in your past threads if I go looking. I did. I said that this number reflects having lost all those credits to the Hutts.

You didn't address providing the basic needs to your people.

5 mill would give us enough to operate a base for a suitable amount of time until we bring in more income.

You didn't address the upkeep of your ships. That is included with the answer to the above mentioned.

And you still don't have non-liquid assets. I do.

 

[Outlander]

This is pointless. Enough information has been given for Boli to rule one way or the other. I'll wait for his decision.

 

[Green Ranger]

Okay, so the problem I'm having with this is that you keep insisting that KES has money, but haven't really gone to explain where that money's come from. The last time finances came up, it was about how the Hutt deal pretty much put KES either on the verge of bankrupcy or several million credits in the red. I haven't been able to find the specific detailssince there were a lot of fragmented discussions here and there, but do keep in mind that it was pretty much the catalyst for the faction rewrite, as well as archiving several destroyer and frigate-sized write-ups, since it was determined that KES was more or less so screwed financially that they couldn't fund projects of that scale.

Keeping that in mind, the question then becomes - how did KES afford this project, in a period where by all accounts even the Siren-class frigate would have been a massive expenditure to an already financially crippled organization? You keep saying that KES has money, but I'm not seeing any real references as to where this money is coming from, aside from stating 'liquid assets' - what are these assets? What's being liquidated, and how does it pay for a facility of this size? These are the questions you need to answer, and when I say answer, I mean answer in detail.

 

[Prudence]

Okay, so the problem I'm having with this is that you keep insisting that KES has money, but haven't really gone to explain where that money's come from. The last time finances came up, it was about how the Hutt deal pretty much put KES either on the verge of bankrupcy or several million credits in the red. I haven't been able to find the specific detailssince there were a lot of fragmented discussions here and there, but do keep in mind that it was pretty much the catalyst for the faction rewrite, as well as archiving several destroyer and frigate-sized write-ups, since it was determined that KES was more or less so screwed financially that they couldn't fund projects of that scale.

Keeping that in mind, the question then becomes - how did KES afford this project, in a period where by all accounts even the Siren-class frigate would have been a massive expenditure to an already financially crippled organization? You keep saying that KES has money, but I'm not seeing any real references as to where this money is coming from, aside from stating 'liquid assets' - what are these assets? What's being liquidated, and how does it pay for a facility of this size? These are the questions you need to answer, and when I say answer, I mean answer in detail.

I'll allow Brett to reply to that, and touch on anything I have that he misses. But he has handled the financial side far more than I have.

 

[Commissar Brett]

Okay, so the problem I'm having with this is that you keep insisting that KES has money, but haven't really gone to explain where that money's come from. The last time finances came up, it was about how the Hutt deal pretty much put KES either on the verge of bankrupcy or several million credits in the red. I haven't been able to find the specific detailssince there were a lot of fragmented discussions here and there, but do keep in mind that it was pretty much the catalyst for the faction rewrite, as well as archiving several destroyer and frigate-sized write-ups, since it was determined that KES was more or less so screwed financially that they couldn't fund projects of that scale.

Keeping that in mind, the question then becomes - how did KES afford this project, in a period where by all accounts even the Siren-class frigate would have been a massive expenditure to an already financially crippled organization? You keep saying that KES has money, but I'm not seeing any real references as to where this money is coming from, aside from stating 'liquid assets' - what are these assets? What's being liquidated, and how does it pay for a facility of this size? These are the questions you need to answer, and when I say answer, I mean answer in detail.

Even if we do not have any official contracts with large commercial entities, we sell all of our stuff to private individuals, or someone makes a large purchase on behalf of a greater whole. Our assets (to be liquidated) include things such as our full warehouse of inventory on Daedalus, as well as those facilities themselves. That warehouse could hold, let's be somewhat modest here, at least 6 million in total equipment. This would include all the weapons, ships, and most of the ammunition in the warehouse. We could sell off the apartment complexes completely (as there are few people left to fill them), and on a space station where there is limited space, real estate is valuable. They could easily be pitched (given their size) maybe 10 mil, as a conservative estimate (extremely conservative, especially with how huge they are).

Also, for all intents and purposes, let's drop the Siren-Class frigate from our expansion.That should give us, by your estimate (liberally) 9 million more to work with.

So, in total, we have extra money to work with, in the form of about 26 million (which would obviously go to either debts or facilities, but most likely facilities). Once we go dark and underground, and people think we're dead, we'll have no debts to pay. A dead man has no debts.

 

[Outlander]

You don't own the appartment complex. Daedalus does.

And I doubt you have 6 million of merchandise in your warehouse. In all likelyhood, you would mostly hold small arms for the most part, as well as several small starships. And you're somehow going to manage liquidating your warehouse of Materials with only individual sales? That's incredibly inefficient. Again, contracts. You need those to sustain a corporation like KES. A huge manufacturing base can't stand on individual sales like this.

No, but the banks surely won't be happy, you have no guarantee to secrecy since everyone knows you're still out there and you'll have to have merchants going to and from your base.

 

[Prudence]

Not if they think we're dead.