The Gauntet OOC

[Narsi]

So your argument is that you've been building the Force up so you should be able to overpower someone who has been doing the same for the same number of posts?

I am aware that prepared Force attacks are more powerful than none prepaded attacks - but I'm not aware of any rules that say you can act as though you can overpower someone of the same level when they've been readying the Force themself

Unless I'm mistaken, preparing the Force over other turns doesn't stack. It's not like stacking three posts of level one force power makes it a level 3 attack you know?

And I have been preparing the Force myself over many turns as well so it's moot even if that was the case - the fact that I didn't describe the preparation in the same way as you doesn't invalidate it

So I don't see why I need to edit to be honest

@Nefieslab
Of course one doesn't need to describe things the same way for them to count. But you still need to describe it in some way at least. Your posts have no indicator of any kind of preparation like mine do. Simply saying "I'm ready" doesn't mean your focusing/gathering/collecting your power for a big output, as my posts clearly state. Your post #7 even mentions using the force had I moved a certain way, which doesn't seem like the actions of someone stockpiling their power to me.

And why wouldn't someone who'd spent two turns focusing up for a big move have an advantage? Logically, if prepared force attacks are more powerful, then the more time spent preparing means a more powerful result? Perhaps it wouldn't be a level 3 move, but it should be substantially stronger at the least.

Anyways, If you still don't agree then I feel a report would be the best option from here.

 

[Nefieslab]

@Nefieslab
Of course one doesn't need to describe things the same way for them to count. But you still need to describe it in some way at least. Your posts have no indicator of any kind of preparation like mine do. Simply saying "I'm ready" doesn't mean your focusing/gathering/collecting your power for a big output, as my posts clearly state. Your post #7 even mentions using the force had I moved a certain way, which doesn't seem like the actions of someone stockpiling their power to me.

And why wouldn't someone who'd spent two turns focusing up for a big move have an advantage? Logically, if prepared force attacks are more powerful, then the more time spent preparing means a more powerful result? Perhaps it wouldn't be a level 3 move, but it should be substantially stronger at the least.

Anyways, If you still don't agree then I feel a report would be the best option from here.

Again - having the Force ready to call on, ready to answer your commands, is the same thing as preparing it because it's still within your grasp ready to be used. So yes, yes it absolutely does mean I have been preparing and keeping the Force within my control.

Honestly I think you're attempting to convince yourself, and me, that you can use the Force in a way far more powerful than is possible for a level 1 in a battle between equal levels and you're essentially trying to justify it because you don't agree with the way I've worded my previous posts - if you had issues or needed clarification, you should have asked rather than attempting to now capitalise on some perceived vagueness.

Also - no. The Force and the level system do not work like that. A level 1 could focus all day - they still aren't going to be able to stack their power to elevate it past their level. Otherwise level 1 Sith and Jedi would be able to literally move mountains and the like simply because they sat still for a few hours and really focused on it. A prepared level 1 attack has more chance against an uncoordinated defence by another level 1 not because it's more powerful but because it is more focused. I've been preparing to defend since your first eye poke - there's no argument for me not being in a position to defend immediately and with enough skill to offset your own focused attack.

So yes, please report my post if you still wish to persist with this argument.

 

[Malon]

Admin Ruling: Nefie's Force defense is adequate. This really comes down to our slackening on over-nitpicking at each other and being hyperrealistic. Both of you mention the Force being gathered to you in your recent posts, prior to this round; the only difference is the vocabulary you use to word it. Narsi's read as preparation for an attack; Nefie's read as preparation for a defense. And, seeing as you are both the same level, then there's no reason for one of you to overpower the other. This ruling is final. @Nefieslab @Narsi

 

[Nefieslab]

@Narsi - Requesting some edits here man or acknowledgement that your defence is inadequate.

Honestly, got more than a few issues with your post but will try to be brief;

• Your defence against the sweeping attack is inadequate and your blade should be swept up by my own, opening your up to the throw attack. Why?

1. 1. You seem to have gone back in time to suddenly stop moving backwards. My attack was stated to happen when he was stepping back; "He would be on one foot when she attacked, his footing ruined by the fact that he was seemingly counting on his attack instantly working against her prepared defences." - This being me taking advantage of you backpedalling as described in your previous post; "He backpedaled carefully as he did so, taking him a couple more feet out of lightsaber range." - your latest post has you immediately stopping your backwards movement before my attack actually happens, which I don't really buy if I'm honest. At the very least, your footing is not going to be steady/ideal as you'd have to hurriedly push down with your foot to get back into position.
   2. Secondly, your entire defence to an attack with a lot of momentum from a longer swing (a sweep) is "he stiffened his wrist" - that's not going to do anything to stop the sweep. The entire point of the sweeping attack is that you will block it with your blade and the momentum and power of said swing would carry both blades up. Stiffening your wrist doesn't stop a stronger attack from moving your blade, which means your defence would actually push your blade and mine into the position I wanted, making you very vulnerable to the throw.
   3. With the bad footwork from point one (even if you do manage to rush into a position where you're not on one foot), the inadequate defence from point two and the distraction of you continuing to attack with the Force while reacting incredibly quickly, I argue that the blade lock is raised, the shoto can be thrown underneath them and your right blade is in no position to magically bypass the blade lock to bat it aside.

 

[Narsi]

@Nefieslab
1. So, I don't really understand the issue with this point. Yes, Vrael was backpedaling and yes you attacked while he had a foot raised. But that's why I included the line about planting his foot, to show him putting it down. Do you really think your so fast that he cant finish his backstepping motion for one foot? I also dispute the notion that he would automatically have bad footing from such an action. There is nothing truly preventing him from taking a somewhat firm stance here provided his foot comes down correctly. Finally, I don't see why his force attack failing would affect his footing in any way. They seem pretty mutually exclusive.

2. This point I can understand, I'll make an edit to make my defense more acceptable here.

3. I'll wait to see how you feel about my edits for point 2 as I'll likely be rewording my description for this point in some way. That said, I don't see why Vrael's focus on the force will be hindering him here either. Your character is likewise exerting himself with the force, somewhat equally actually, and is going about her actions just fine. Precision throwing a shoto lightsaber for one.

 

[Nefieslab]

@Nefieslab
1. So, I don't really understand the issue with this point. Yes, Vrael was backpedaling and yes you attacked while he had a foot raised. But that's why I included the line about planting his foot, to show him putting it down. Do you really think your so fast that he cant finish his backstepping motion for one foot? I also dispute the notion that he would automatically have bad footing from such an action. There is nothing truly preventing him from taking a somewhat firm stance here provided his foot comes down correctly. Finally, I don't see why his force attack failing would affect his footing in any way. They seem pretty mutually exclusive.

2. This point I can understand, I'll make an edit to make my defense more acceptable here.

3. I'll wait to see how you feel about my edits for point 2 as I'll likely be rewording my description for this point in some way. That said, I don't see why Vrael's focus on the force will be hindering him here either. Your character is likewise exerting himself with the force, somewhat equally actually, and is going about her actions just fine. Precision throwing a shoto lightsaber for one.

Honestly my answer to point 1 and 3 are the same - you're reacting to something that happens within a matter of a second, while readjusting your footing, while blocking something else, across a very small distance while still concentrating on an attack with the Force. Your focus is on like 4 different things and all with absolute precision?

Press (X) to doubt dude

Throwing something isn't as taxing on the focus as immediately reacting to said throw and blocking it with perfect precision when we're within a metre of each other

 

[Narsi]

Honestly my answer to point 1 and 3 are the same - you're reacting to something that happens within a matter of a second, while readjusting your footing, while blocking something else, across a very small distance while still concentrating on an attack with the Force. Your focus is on like 4 different things and all with absolute precision?

Press (X) to doubt dude

Throwing something isn't as taxing on the focus as immediately reacting to said throw and blocking it with perfect precision when we're within a metre of each other

I think your greatly exaggerating the timeframes and reactions involved here. Firstly, why does Vrael need to focus on his footing so much? There's nothing here to knock him off balance, basically he just needs to put his foot down in a way that he doesn't fall over. Then he just needs to block a super obvious attack, block a less obvious one, whilst keeping up his force attack. That's only three things, which matches what your character is doing. Second, absolute precision, the only thing that kinda needs that is the shoto block. What's absolutely precise about blocking a wide sweeping lightsaber strike?

Lyanna is also keeping up a a force maneuver, making sure to step exactly when Vrael's foot is off the ground, striking out with one lightsaber, and precision throwing a shoto lightsaber at a very specific point. Also, less than a second? Your throw happens after the sweeping is confirmed, which means it happens afterwards. He only has to react to one at a time.

 

[Nefieslab]

I think your greatly exaggerating the timeframes and reactions involved here. Firstly, why does Vrael need to focus on his footing so much? There's nothing here to knock him off balance, basically he just needs to put his foot down in a way that he doesn't fall over. Then he just needs to block a super obvious attack, block a less obvious one, whilst keeping up his force attack. That's only three things, which matches what your character is doing. Second, absolute precision, the only thing that kinda needs that is the shoto block. What's absolutely precise about blocking a wide sweeping lightsaber strike?

Lyanna is also keeping up a a force maneuver, making sure to step exactly when Vrael's foot is off the ground, striking out with one lightsaber, and precision throwing a shoto lightsaber at a very specific point. Also, less than a second? Your throw happens after the sweeping is confirmed, which means it happens afterwards. He only has to react to one at a time.

I'm not saying you need precision to block the sweep - I'm saying you need precision to block a shoto thrown at you without warning from a metre or less distance, which you shouldn't have to my mind because of how many things you're doing. And getting into decent footing for a sword fight does require a bit more concentration than just simply stepping down

He has less than a second to react to the throw. Unless you're arguing that throwing a shoto across a distance of a metre or less should take long enough for you to acknowledge and reposition your saber precisely to block it perfectly, while maintaining a Force attack and continuing to put pressure on a blade lock. Which seems rather far fetched to me, ngl

 

[Narsi]

Edited so that he's not passively blocking the sweep anymore.

And yes, footing is important, but there is nothing here to interfere with his footing either. According to your OP, its just hard black dirt, no rocks to trip on even. I don't think its so difficult for him to put his foot down and be mostly ok.

As for the shoto, its basically just another lightsaber thrust, maybe a little faster. And, as stated in my post, his lightsaber is already in decent positioning for the performed block. Now, if you can keep up a force maneuver and do a precision throw, Vrael can keep up an equally powerful force maneuver and do an arguably less precise block.

@Nefieslab

 

[Nefieslab]

Edited so that he's not passively blocking the sweep anymore.

And yes, footing is important, but there is nothing here to interfere with his footing either. According to your OP, its just hard black dirt, no rocks to trip on even. I don't think its so difficult for him to put his foot down and be mostly ok.

As for the shoto, its basically just another lightsaber thrust, maybe a little faster. And, as stated in my post, his lightsaber is already in decent positioning for the performed block. Now, if you can keep up a force maneuver and do a precision throw, Vrael can keep up an equally powerful force maneuver and do an arguably less precise block.

@Nefieslab

Again, I honestly don't think you've done enough to completely halt my blade. You write that you've moved your wrist downward but then apparently move your whole arm with a counter slash? You argue that turning your blade point down, then moving it counters a swing conducted with the full body and arm with more distance to build up momentum?

You've twisted your forearm to point it downward. Any block with a twisted arm is going to be weak as hell - your arm is twisted into a position that does not lend itself to movement and yet you're arguing you can not only twist your arm to point your blade downwards but thrust out to the left, to meet the strike, and you have enough strength to stop it dead

I'm honestly baffled. A twisted arm has a weak as hell swing and, again, you've essentially trying to argue that I can't twist your arm back into it's natural position because... because you've locked it in? Joints don't work that way

And again, I still very much disagree that you can block the shoto with so little effort. Especially seeing as your defence to the sweep is still, to my mind, not enough to actually stop the sweep from working, lifting the blade lock up to the point where it blocks your right blade from stopping the throw

With all this in mind?

I recognise that we aren't coming to an actual conclusion arguing back and forth like this so I'm going to report it and, as this is the third report, this will decide the outcome entirely I do believe.

Time to see who's right eh? :D

Either way - just wanna say this.

This will end the fight so whichever way it goes?

 

[Arcangel]

OFFICIAL RULING: @Narsi 's defense is valid. This is going to take some explaining so i will split it into issues.

1. Footing. The argument about footing is irrelevant, a simple backstep into firm footing is an extremely simple step for an experienced swordsman (level 1) to pull off. As far as "She had deliberately attacked while he had one foot in the air to backpedal as well, limiting how he would move to evade the deadly object thrown towards the direct centre of her abdomen from such a short distance." Well, your character is not that good.

2. The sweep attack defense is valid. With Vrael rotating his arm and wrist into the sweep attack with his own swing, in which it is clearly stated that he puts the strength of his arms into, as well as rotating his body into it for added leverage. Its pretty clear that this is no limp wristed block and even with the strength put into it he still acknowledges that he loses some ground on the block. As an additional note, both of the characters are using single-handed grips on their sabers, so there isn't a huge amount of strength difference between the attack and defense besides the strength disparity between characters, which favors the defender.

3. The shoto defense is valid. In moving to defend against the sweep, Vrael brings his saber in line to better defend his body and then is able to utilize that to defend against the thrown saber in Lyanna's follow up attack as he would defend against a thrust, batting it to the side and out of alignment with his body. With nothing but thrown momentum behind it, the shoto saber is batted to the side harmlessly as written.

THREAD ENDING: As has been correctly identified by Vrael, Lyanna has left herself open and has little with which to defend herself against his thrust, her primary saber bound in a saber lock that she initiated and her off-hand weapon discarded in an attempt to gain the upper hand. With a solid thrust, Vreal's lightsaber burns into Lyanna's chest and heart, killing her almost instantly.

@Nefieslab @Narsi you are free to do one additional post each to finish out the thread with a death and victory post.

FINAL NOTES: Additionally i would like to address some incorrect force usage in this thread on both sides, with two issues being the most prominent. First off the usage of Force Barrier was incorrect, as it clearly states in the lore article that Force Barrier roots the user in place. It is also noted as being an extremely taxing power to maintain.

In regards to the eye gouge/hammer spike nail to the eye, such an extremely precise, concentrated, and maintained application of telekinesis (though im not sure how exactly that would work) would be extremely taxing, especially for a level 1.

Both of these force uses are highly taxing, and most force powers require some sort of somatic component to be used, and yet here we have a telekinetic battle being engaged only with the minds while the characters are also committed to complex bladework. Well, that's not how the force works, especially at Level 1.

OOC CONDUCT: Honestly i'm disappointed in some of the comments and behavior in this thread OOC. This behavior would be disappointing coming from any member, but it is particularly inexcusable coming from a member of the staff, who should know better. In particular the snarky attitude when discussing disagreements and the flippant gif/meme usage. Most of the issues that were argued here should have been easily resolved, with many of them not even worth discussion in my opinion, leaving the OOC and the duel with an overly nit picky feel.

@Nefieslab @Narsi