The Holocaust?

[Fynar]

He wanted to get rid of the people, not just Judaism. It's pretty much impossible to speculate on his personal beliefs when it comes to religion, but what we do know is that his plans involved killing a ****load of people and promoting the Aryan race. It had quite a bit more to do with race than it did religion.

Yeah but that is all just a front to gain power in a white nation. With centuries old sentiments about Jews. Martin Luther released a book named Jews and there lies. Several books have been released in germany by clerics about jews and how they are ungodly and so on and so forth. Hitler was just the first one to take all of these ideas and turn them into a original idea that was a political movement in a time of desperate hope. They didn't come up with the concept of the Aryan race. Other people did before him in the early 1900s like when Hitler was still a kid. Some woman named Madam Blatvansky did. Though she in her self was a cult leader. Later on other people refined the ideas to which eventually became the cult of Hitler. So it'd be like me taking the heavens gate ideas and starting a political movement that seemed different. Or anyone of the ridiculous cults like The order of the solar temple or whatever. You get the idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Blavatsky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy

 

[Storm]

You can't explain the stuff madmen like Hitler did like this.

He hated Jews, for some sort of reason. Perhaps he saw them as successful, a threat, whatever.

But, at the end of the day, he was mad.

 

[Ols]

@Fynar: If you knew nearly as much as you think you did about this, you'd be aware that Hitler was not the brain behind the holocaust. He and his leaders had the big idea to relocate the Jewish population to somewhere like Madagascar, just to get rid of them from the Reich. Philipp Bouhler and Dr Karl Brandt, the heads of the infamous T4 project, and his colleagues were actually more likely the ones who formulated the idea of the categoric annihilation of the Jews, rather than their relocation.

WTF?

Seriously where the HELL did you get that idea?


Also, the wiki article said nothing about that and the second one is obviously extremley biased and frankly the guy sounds like a moron. Plus the Church has never persecuted Jews and actually at one point helped to protect them.

Well technically speaking the church did incite, in the buildup to the first crusade, what is now referred to as "the first holocaust", so yes the church did persecute Jews.

 

[Fynar]

@Fynar: If you knew nearly as much as you think you did about this, you'd be aware that Hitler was not the brain behind the holocaust. He and his leaders had the big idea to relocate the Jewish population to somewhere like Madagascar, just to get rid of them from the Reich. Philipp Bouhler and Dr Karl Brandt, the heads of the infamous T4 project, and his colleagues were actually more likely the ones who formulated the idea of the categoric annihilation of the Jews, rather than their relocation.


Well technically speaking the church did incite, in the buildup to the first crusade, what is now referred to as "the first holocaust", so yes the church did persecute Jews.

Two random guys in Nazi Germany didn't just come up with it. It was a coordinated effort by them all. With Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich leading it. Though yes I do know about early plans for relocation of the jews. Yes I do know about all of this.

 

[Galykia]

Two random guys in Nazi Germany didn't just come up with it. It was a coordinated effort by them all. With Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich leading it. Though yes I do know about early plans for relocation of the jews. Yes I do know about all of this.

Are you saying Chancellery chief Bouhler was some random dude in germany? He was much more than just some german dude who lived in 1940. (His b-day is weirdly on sept. 11)
And the same goes for Hitlers personal doctor, Brandt.

 

[The Agriculturist]

Well, I find most of what you're saying, Fynar, to be quite out there, however I think you are somewhat on the right track with the religion thing, or at least you're at the train station waiting.

Hitler would have eventually gone on to 'eradicate' ORGANIZED religion from his empire. Organized religion is direct competition to Hitler's control over his domain: Hitler says kill, god says don't kill...This problem cannot exist because nothing would get done.

Jews got the axe first because they were the easiest to alienate: Minority, some lived in closed communities, some spoke a different language, some dressed differently, etc.
Due to the differences between the jewish population in germany as a whole and germany itself, Hitler didn't have much difficulty in turning european jews to scapegoats.

The catholic church, didn't 'support' Hitler, but it did not disapprove of his actions either, so Niner you can't really get upset at what some have said. It took a long time and a lot of deaths before the church started to say something (also remember the catholic church is sitting right dead in the center of Rome...which was under big, fat, angry Mousolinni, who was allied with hitler).

Hitler was buddies with the church because he needed them on his side, but i wouldnt be suprised if he eventually would have started to persecute christians as well, and then all other forms of organized relig.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If Hitler wanted to erase religion from all of Europe then he wouldn't let a new religion/cult form under himself then, would he? Doesn't make sense to allow your followers to become spiritual if you're attempting to rid them of spirituality.

Hitler was trying to get as much support as possible. Botting out spiritual followers wouldn't help him. Things could be changed later.

 

[Ols]

Two random guys in Nazi Germany didn't just come up with it. It was a coordinated effort by them all. With Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich leading it. Though yes I do know about early plans for relocation of the jews. Yes I do know about all of this.

No, two random guys didn't, the ambitious Bouhler and Dr Brandt put the T4 project on the rails. It was a combination of them and other ambitious Nazis within T4 that initially suggested getting rid of the Jews by killing them. Hitler wanted to remove them from his Reich, but there's no evidence he intended to kill them in the manner he did before a certain memo from a member of the T4 administration reached his office. The Madagascar plan was still in the works as late as 1941, even early '42, the plan to actually wipe the Jews out, beginning with categoric execution by death squads first came about at a similar time, in '41.

 

[Fynar]

I don't know much about those two men to completely honest. I'll have to research them so I don't look like a complete moron as this continues. I probably know what they have done just I can't put my finger on exactly who they were.

 

[Dan.]

For the longest time, Jews have not been looked kindly upon in Europe.

Some hated Jews more than others, but deep down most everyone had some sort of resentment for the Jews.

Hitler had a romantic (not lovey dovey, you know what I mean) idea of a perfect world with a perfect Germany as it's center. He hated the way Germany was (poor) and decided to make it amazing on his own.

So, he decided to be an all powerful dictator. It was easy, as no other countries really cared much about others (it was the depression, each country was trying to fix their economy), he was a great speaker, and he was charismatic.

So, he slowly but surely built up support but to really get the German people behind him, he played on their stereotypes and resentments of Jews. The people responded splendidly, Hitler took power and the rest is history.

So, Hitler was trying to make a new world order with a perfect Germany as it's center. And to do that, he played on stereotypes and fulfilled his own hatred by killing Jews. His scheme wasn't religious, it was idealistically political.

 

[The Agriculturist]

For the longest time, Jews have not been looked kindly upon in Europe.

Some hated Jews more than others, but deep down most everyone had some sort of resentment for the Jews.

Hitler had a romantic (not lovey dovey, you know what I mean) idea of a perfect world with a perfect Germany as it's center. He hated the way Germany was (poor) and decided to make it amazing on his own.

So, he decided to be an all powerful dictator. It was easy, as no other countries really cared much about others (it was the depression, each country was trying to fix their economy), he was a great speaker, and he was charismatic.

So, he slowly but surely built up support but to really get the German people behind him, he played on their stereotypes and resentments of Jews. The people responded splendidly, Hitler took power and the rest is history.

So, Hitler was trying to make a new world order with a perfect Germany as it's center. And to do that, he played on stereotypes and fulfilled his own hatred by killing Jews. His scheme wasn't religious, it was idealistically political.

I'll give you a 'C' at the most.

 

[Fynar]

I'll give you a 'C' at the most.

That is exactly what I am debating in this thread. It'd be a lower grade from me.

 

[Nik Eismaner]

No offence but unless you can actually base what you claim on real hard evidence, that only sounds "idiotic" as there are so many books, documentaries, researches etc. and most of them all agree on the same thing that many have presented in this thread too so the religion sounds way far fetched.

 

[Fynar]

No offence but unless you can actually base what you claim on real hard evidence, that only sounds "idiotic" as there are so many books, documentaries, researches etc. and most of them all agree on the same thing that many have presented in this thread too so the religion sounds way far fetched.

How does it sound idiotic that Adolf Hitler would want to destroy all religion besides the Nazi Ideology and promote himself and the Nazi Leadership as Gods in a way? Please explain that to me? That people who created a cult belief about a group of people that gained office and completely started killing all enemies of there belief; would want to destroy all religion sounds idiotic? Then you are idiotic.

 

[Lavi]

No offence but unless you can actually base what you claim on real hard evidence, that only sounds "idiotic" as there are so many books, documentaries, researches etc. and most of them all agree on the same thing that many have presented in this thread too so the religion sounds way far fetched.

It probably sounds "idiotic" because we're living in 2009, not 1939-ish.

 

[The Agriculturist]

How does it sound idiotic that Adolf Hitler would want to destroy all religion besides the Nazi Ideology and promote himself and the Nazi Leadership as Gods in a way? Please explain that to me? That people who created a cult belief about a group of people that gained office and completely started killing all enemies of there belief; would want to destroy all religion sounds idiotic? Then you are idiotic.

It's not so much what you're saying....
You just don't know how to say it. and you sound idiotic. That's what he probably meant. And if it isn't, it's what I probably meant.

 

[Fynar]

You just don't know how .

That is a frequent problem.