There is no ignorance, there is knowledge

[Valen Pelora]

IC Thread

Participants:

@Valen Pelora
@Sangga
@Foolish Guac

I was hoping we wouldn’t need this, but I believe the thread has come to an end. @Foolish Guac, I don’t think your defense is feasible. @Sangga clearly writes that Luy is moving as Jorrin is falling to the ground. The actions are as follows:

Aurora yanks on Jorrin’s feet
Luy jump at the same time Jorrin is falling.
Luy lands on Jorrin as Jorrin hits the ground.

This would leave no time or room for Jorrin to realize what is going on. Even if it did, it would be a fraction of a second and not long enough to really react and avoid Luy, even by rolling. Luy is moving quickly by using the Force. Please edit your post.

@Sangga and I are willing to offer the following compromise to end the thread. Jorrin is taken into custody by Aurora and Luy for further questioning about how he reacted. A follow up thread will be conducted to determine if Jorrin can continue his training, if it is determined he is not Jedi material, you may attempt a rescue/breakout.

If we can’t agree on edits, I will report the post.

 

[Foolish Guac]

Please make arguments based on specific things that Sannga stated.
"In the slow visuals of fight time everything crystallized. He saw Jorrin’s dodge, from his Force enhanced movements. If Jorrin was grasped by Aurora, Luy would sprang. As Jorrin would fall, Luy would leap. and would land on the fallen boy. The Force coursing through his limbs gave him alacrity beyond one of his size."

It is specifically stated that Luy was jumping as Jorrin fell. It was not stated that his descent was timed to exactly match Jorrin landing. Jorrin is able to see while falling, thus he can see the jump, see that Luy intends to land on him, and roll simultaneously (or even start slightly prior to) his hitting the ground.

I agree that Luy is moving quickly (for his size) with the Force. Which is why I specifically stated that had he done something more efficient than a jump (when force enhanced, these are usually even higher than usual, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he did not enhance his jump height, though he didn't specify these things.

 

[Valen Pelora]

@Foolish Guac, I don’t think a level 1 could recognize what Luy was doing while having his feet yanked out from under him by the Force, respond in time, and roll far enough away. He didn’t have any time to prepare for the fall.

This all takes place over an incredible condensed period of time. A second or two or less. Even if we assumed your defense works, your character is in a very tough spot. Our request for a compromise to end this thread and go a route more conducive to character development stands.

 

[Foolish Guac]

A Level 1 is stated to be an elite soldier, they can also do difficult maneuvers. What Luy was doing was extremely telegraphed and obvious. A jump is probably the least efficient things he could do, beside moves out of a comedy skit. What Luy did doesn't have some large AoE, so the distance that needs to be rolled is negligible. I never said he prepared before the fall, I don't see how that is relevant. If you mean to say he was totally caught off guard, thats silly. He knows Aurora has telekinesis, being knocked over isn't a big shock.

Virtually all actions in combat take place in that timespan. If somebody can't act within a second or two or less, they can't (effectively) fight. I agree that my character is in a tough spot. Lets keep arbitrary things like what you think is 'good' development out of this.

Also, on second reading, you are definitely wrong when you say Luy landed as Jorrin hit the ground. His comment specifically says "Fallen", past tense, meaning Jorrin would have already hit the ground. (which also means there was time to roll, considering you can start that motion while falling as well).

 

[Valen Pelora]

Alright, I will assume Jorrin is charging at Aurora and post accordingly. Sorry we couldn’t work this out.

 

[Valen Pelora]

@Foolish Guac, a Force pull can be defended against in PVP but not in the way you described. Aurora is not pulling on an area but rather actually on Jorrin. Moving sideways would not prevent the pull. The combined effects of Luy and Aurora's maneuvers in the Force would be overwhelming and Jorrin would more likely than not be incapacitated. I really don't want to have to report this, but your defense is not feasible. The compromise we outlined above still stands, otherwise we will have to resort to a report.

 

[Foolish Guac]

Aurora's maneuver is the only one that was stated to deal damage, Luy is just pinning Jorrin by pressing directly down. Not sure wym by "combined effects".

 

[Valen Pelora]

@Foolish Guac, I don't see your character taking any damage from Aurora other than falling. Her pull was with significantly more Force than that. This is where I have an issue. Luy is doing a Force Push down on Jorrin:

" his hands and arms swung round and then raised to the sky and swiftly swung down pointing at Jorrin. Where waves buffeted from Aurora to Jorrin, the Force was a torrent, a river of energy under Luy's control. It would press down on Jorrin, each surface of Jorrin and the ground around him was pressed"

While Aurora is pulling Jorrin down towards the ground, the maneuvers act in concert.

 

[Foolish Guac]

He doesn't mention that its simultaneous anywhere in that quote. 'Where X is Y, Z is A" type statements do not mean that X and Z exist at the same time, it just draws a contrast.

I didn't list damage because I wanted you to estimate the changes in damage based on less overall movement and a guarded head in your comment, since it was noncritical but likely enough to knock somebody out originally.

 

[Valen Pelora]

@Foolish Guac, that is not how PVP works. Unless it is an auto-hit, you write the damage your character takes. I don't think being slightly closer to the ground or attempting to cover his head about stop him from being knocked out. If you are consenting to me writing Jorrin is unconscious that is what I will do. Otherwise, we will need a report.

 

[Foolish Guac]

Different styles for different places ig, I'm used to leaving damage up to discussion where the exact details of it aren't as clear.
Why do you think less space to accelerate and protection of the head would not reduce damage from what is essentially a bludgeon. Your characters theoretical full power does not make her heavily restrained attacks stronger.

 

[Valen Pelora]

@Foolish Guac, I have reported the post. The timer is paused.

 

[Phoenix]

So, you can't really just "sidestep" a grip with the Force. That's not really how that works, and given that there wasn't really anything else done to avoid the grip, it can be considered to be effective.

With that said, the question of whether or not he would be knocked unconscious is moot since with a level 2 and a level 1 grip in conjunction on Jorrin, he would be restrained.

Admin Ruling: Jorrin is subdued and taken into the custody of Luy and Aurora

@Valen Pelora @Foolish Guac @Sangga

 

[Foolish Guac]

Skips a lot of steps that would follow that lol but aight