[Interest check]Grey Jedi

[vamp]

I mean, hey, more power too you. But its a hard sell. The Jedi and Sith will pull most of the force users, the crim and some grey Jedi will go with the Conclave, the good guys and some grey Jedi will go to the Protectorate, and you'll be left with a group appealing to only a niche of a niche and a fraction of that to boot.

Yeah, after some thought I decided I probably won't start the faction unless someone shows interest, which hasn't happened so far

 

[Wit]

I suppose, but most indie factions are groups of smugglers or mandalorians or warriors. I'm planning on creating a faction for all Force users who are misfits and don't fit in with the Jedi or Sith, and also don't want to be a part of the criminal world. The main focus will be to preserve peace by resolving conflicts without violence but using it when needed, and trying to find a middle ground between the Jedi and the Empire. Before you say that sounds like the Jedi, it might, but still some people would rather not associate with the Jedi because of either their warrior-ness or for whatever other reason

What do you mean by not associating with the Jedi because of their warrior-ness? Just trying to get an idea of how the Jedi are perceived right now.

 

[vamp]

What do you mean by not associating with the Jedi because of their warrior-ness? Just trying to get an idea of how the Jedi are perceived right now.

The Jedi I've interacted with so far (as a Sith) are mostly "Oh look it's a Sith I'm gonna kill him," which kinda contradicts the whole "avoid violence, preserve life" philosophy that the Jedi have

I'm literally in a thread with 3 Jedi and 2 of them have already said death threats even though I said I didn't want any trouble. That sort of warrior-ness

 

[Wit]

The Jedi I've interacted with so far (as a Sith) are mostly "Oh look it's a Sith I'm gonna kill him," which kinda contradicts the whole "avoid violence, preserve life" philosophy that the Jedi have

I'm literally in a thread with 3 Jedi and 2 of them have already said death threats even though I said I didn't want any trouble. That sort of warrior-ness

You have to put things into context. The Jedi just had their home destroyed, a vast majority of their order wiped out, and most remaining Jedi are now part of the more militaristic arm of the order, the Army of Light. For a sith to barge into the very heart of what the Jedi have left, and so soon after the sith destroyed Tython, did you expect any other reaction?

Also, two instances don't exemplify the entire order. There are Jedi who align with the whole guardians of peace image of the Jedi, just because your first interaction as a sith was with the more militaristic bunch doesn't mean the order is full of crazy murderers. We do have those though, so I do understand why the mistake can be made. The Jedi have a pretty weird spread of characters right now, ranging from redeemed former Dark Lords to pacifistic semi-monks trying to serve the light side.

 

[vamp]

You have to put things into context. The Jedi just had their home destroyed, a vast majority of their order wiped out, and most remaining Jedi are now part of the more militaristic arm of the order, the Army of Light. For a sith to barge into the very heart of what the Jedi have left, and so soon after the sith destroyed Tython, did you expect any other reaction?

Also, two instances don't exemplify the entire order. There are Jedi who align with the whole guardians of peace image of the Jedi, just because your first interaction as a sith was with the more militaristic bunch doesn't mean the order is full of crazy murderers. We do have those though, so I do understand why the mistake can be made. The Jedi have a pretty weird spread of characters right now, ranging from redeemed former Dark Lords to pacifistic semi-monks trying to serve the light side.

You're right. I spoke too early, and I'll interact with more Jedi to see if I was right. To be honest, I can see what you're saying, and it's probably true

 

[Wit]

You're right. I spoke too early, and I'll interact with more Jedi to see if I was right. To be honest, I can see what you're saying, and it's probably true

The issue is that for some time the most prominent actions of the Jedi have been violent ones, so I can see where the perception of a darker Jedi order is coming from. And it is kind of true, but isn't representative of the entire faction. The Jedi are inclusive enough to accept quite a wide spectrum of characters. As long as they aren't full blown cold blooded murderers, there we draw a line. : P

 

[Undine]

(When you see someone has restarted the conversation about Grey Jedi and you know what's to come.)

@Comrade Matt I think what the term "Grey Jedi" means right now, in this timeline, is more of a morally ambiguous nature than anything Force related. I would strongly classify my current Jedi, Akasha aka Emerald, as being a Grey Jedi under that interpretation. Emerald is naturally pulled to the dark side, not tempted so much as the dark side is more of her natural state within the Force. Coupled with her more bestial nature, and despite the fact I intentionally have her come across as a buffoon sometimes, she has to constantly work to maintain her connection to the light. Right now I'm in a thread where Emerald is taking a "vacation" from the war and being a Jedi so she can keep her bestial nature in check in such a way that doesn't harm others or drastically affect her relationship with the Force. To "taste blood without the threat of the sith" as I put it in one post, she is about to fight random beasts for sport. Not the most Jedi thing to do mind you.

Most of the Jedi characters I've read up on this timeline, as well as most in the past time lines that I can recall, tend to fit one definition of Grey Jedi or another. Everyone loves a good Yoda character, no one wants to RP 900 years worth of Jedi meditation and self reflection that at Yoda type character would require. There have been a handful of "classic" type Jedi here and there, but for the most part it's difficult to write compelling stories with that type of character so most go for a more "grey" style Jedi, even should they not realize it. Those types of characters are just more interesting to most.

I don't see anything wrong with wanted to start a more morally ambiguous Force faction, but at the moment the current Jedi faction is fairly loose on the "rules" of being a Jedi so I'm not sure if the type of Jedi your talking about would even feel a need or desire to form their own little group. I get the OOC side of it, but the IC justifications for Jedi feeling the need to step aside from the Order and form a group of Grey Jedi doesn't really make sense.

Emerald has helped one initiate deal with their emotions, keeping them from coming to close to the dark side, on the other hand she's also helped a known killer make a fresh start with the Jedi, going so far as to basically adopt him as her son. The way her character is written allows me to make case-by-case IC decisions that don't always seem like they would fit with one another but they all work with her. It's a matter of how you go about being morally ambiguous as a Grey Jedi, because if you start really screwing up you'll find yourself at the bad end of a lightsaber real quick.​

 

[TheMorrigan]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Ashoka is considered a "Grey Jedi", or a neutral force. The same way Bendu, from Star Wars Rebels, is "the middle". Grey JedI are only non-canon in name, the concept of a force user obeying just the Force, and utilizing both sides at will, is very much canon. However I don't think you could or should even use the term Jedi, as that intrinsically associates you with their order.

I have a lore article in my workshop (haven't submitted it yet, @Malon still need to look at the Harbringer crash) that details how Vrist views the Force. So I would be in on making such a faction.

 

[Outlander]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Ashoka is considered a "Grey Jedi", or a neutral force. The same way Bendu, from Star Wars Rebels, is "the middle". Grey JedI are only non-canon in name, the concept of a force user obeying just the Force, and utilizing both sides at will, is very much canon. However I don't think you could or should even use the term Jedi, as that intrinsically associates you with their order.

I dont think so. Ahsoka allowed herself to stray outside the bounds of the Jedi Order, but she was still firmly on the light side of the force.

The Bendu is an anomaly, and a rogue entity if the Rebels S3 Finaly is anything to go by. At best, hes an exception, at worst, he's lying.

 

[TheMorrigan]

In that case, at best a grey force user is an anomaly, a rogue entity. Or a liar.

 

[Wit]

Ashoka is most definitely not a grey Jedi with regards to her Force alignment.

As for classical good guy Jedi being more difficult to write compelling stories with, I have to very strongly disagree with that. A good guy Jedi can be just as fun and easy to write as a more morally questionable one. My Jedi from last timeline, Hal, was probably one of the most jedi-esque characters on the site and he is till date one of the most fun to write characters I have had. Agreed, the Army is a setting that makes it easier to create morally grey characters. But there are still classically good Jedi and the very setting of this timeline makes it more challenging for them to have to face the temptations of the dark side and with their peers doing things they don't approve of, and many other similar situations. Things like that make for amazing storytelling opportunities.

 

[Valen Pelora]

Tossing my two cents in, again.

My current Jedi was as by the book as a Jedi can be. Writing his evolution throughout the war has been incredibly rewarding. He still doesn't approve of everything the Army does but has come to terms with some realities of war. He is one of my favorite character to ever write as.

A "classic" Jedi doesn't mean boring. You don't have to be morally questionable to have a fun time writing. A lot depends on the plots you pursue and the people you write with.

 

[TheMorrigan]

I can say, Jedi aren't boring. Neither are Sith. However I will say that I'd rather keep any character I have ambiguous. For my own purposes. Obviously this topic is heated, for whatever reason, and I don't want to step on toes.

 

[Outlander]

In that case, at best a grey force user is an anomaly, a rogue entity. Or a liar.

Thats... not it at all.

 

[Undine]

Seeing as what it means to be a Grey Jedi under new canon has yet to be defined. For now it's really up for interpretation. Personally, I doubt anyone over at Disney is in any rush do just give us answers either. In a galaxy full of new frontiers, the grey or "balance" of the Force seems to be the next one in store for us.​

Right now opinions on what it means to be grey, or part of the balance, is kinda left in the air. The Bendu and Ahsoka are the only examples that we have, and even they are left to interpretation, which from what I've seen is what the writers behind the new canon want us to do.​

We're not seeing the black and white story telling of the George Lucas era, Disney is giving us a more mature and complex star wars, leaving it up to us to determine our own stances on things.​

I've seen a lot of people saying we need to wait for the new canon to tell us various things, but honestly, as writers ourselves, we are just as able to give our voice to the new era of star wars. Disney has proven they are willing to listen to the fans, don't let the mystery of what is to come blind you to the clues the star wars team at Disney is leaving everywhere.​

 

[Green Ranger]

Okay, everyone knows this area is a pet peeve of mine, so I'm gonna jump in quickly with a couple of points.

1) Ahsoka is not a Gray Jedi.

2) We know literally nothing about Bendu's philosophy of the Force, his powers or anything, except that he can apparently turn into a cloud and cause a thunderstorm of Force lightning. I don't think any of the admins would allow that, so the one possible example of Gray usage (which, again, we don't know if it is actually a Gray usage of the Force because a) all we have is Bendu's own word to go by, and b) that looked an awful lot just like straight-up Dark Side to me) is already basically an OP no-no. >.>

3) There's little to no concrete information given in Rebels or any other currently canon source that can lead to anyone even beginning to comprehend whether a Gray philosophy can even exist or function in the new Star Wars canon.

4) The site rules currently exclude the possibility of Gray usage, so the admins will need to redo the Guide to Force Powers to allow a provision for it if it's going to be used in the RP. That write-up needs to be updated anyway, so I'd add it to the list of things the admins should consider if/when they do decide to look at it, but as it stands the rules kind of need to change first - and that's even if the admins are for Gray usage, which IMHO lacks sufficient evidence to introduce.

5) Read my guide on Dark Side Corruption and You, I cover so much of what's been debated here. If you want to play a shades of gray Force user, there are far more compelling ways to do it then pretending you're immune to Dark Side corruption because...well, frankly, that's just classic Mary Sue.

 

[Malon]

3) There's little to no concrete information given in Rebels or any other currently canon source that can lead to anyone even beginning to comprehend whether a Gray philosophy can even exist or function in the new Star Wars canon.

Agreed with everything you said, except this. In the Aftermath novels, we know that there are Force-traditions that do actively observe and worship the "grey" side of the Force. There are also tradition that worship all three sides of the Force: light, dark, and grey. They exist, they function, "the grey" is a real thing, unlike in Legends where it was vague and open to interpretation.

The main problem with a "Grey Jedi" faction, and the reason why it will be hard to get one approved is, as Boli pointed out, we don't know enough about how the grey works to effectively run such a thing here. There are no "grey Jedi Orders" in either Legends or canon—just Force religions. An entire Order of grey Jedi is highly unfeasible (the term "grey Jedi" itself is a misnomer because you cannot be "grey," by its canon definition, and a Jedi).

 

[Outlander]

Agreed with everything you said, except this. In the Aftermath novels, we know that there are Force-traditions that do actively observe and worship the "grey" side of the Force. There are also tradition that worship all three sides of the Force: light, dark, and grey. They exist, they function, "the grey" is a real thing, unlike in Legends where it was vague and open to interpretation.

The main problem with a "Grey Jedi" faction, and the reason why it will be hard to get one approved is, as Boli pointed out, we don't know enough about how the grey works to effectively run such a thing here. There are no "grey Jedi Orders" in either Legends or canon—just Force religions. An entire Order of grey Jedi is highly unfeasible (the term "grey Jedi" itself is a misnomer because you cannot be "grey," by its canon definition, and a Jedi).

What part of Aftermath was that in? One of the interludes?

 

[Malon]

@Outlander — I believe it is in the third book, the Christophsis Interlude (I get the contents of all of them mixed up, so I just cite Aftermath as all three novels). There is a quote from the book that gets overlooked, and it is mentioned in reference to the Disciples of the Beyond: "...he will join soon with the living Force, all hail the light, the dark, and the gray."

 

[Outlander]

@Outlander — I believe it is in the third book, the Christophsis Interlude (I get the contents of all of them mixed up, so I just cite Aftermath as all three novels). There is a quote from the book that gets overlooked, and it is mentioned in reference to the Disciples of the Beyond: "All hail the light, the dark, and the gray."

I'll have to check through those again. Unfortunately, a lot of people where turned off by the first, and missed out on a lot of good stuff in the others, which makes it kind of hard to find information about them without going back to the books.