President Elect: Donald J. Trump

[Jabonicus]

Considering Trumps quotes and his running partner Mike "Shock away the Cock" Pence, I simply don't see how he's NOT homophobic, and therefore, against my main agendas.

 

[Nova Elgrin]

Considering Trumps quotes and his running partner Mike "Shock away the Cock" Pence, I simply don't see how he's NOT homophobic, and therefore, against my main agendas.

I do see where you're coming from, however how about you see how he acts first and THEN go nuts? You can't prevent his presidency anyway (unless you're an assassin of some sort xD) so if you are super depressed now and in the end nothing too bad happens, all that anger and fear was for nothing :(

Look I really don't celebrate the guy either. The fact that his family's originating from Germany makes me cringe a lil' bit but a lot of people are acting like it's the end of the world - which I really think will not be the case.

Also you didn't answer my question concerning the Clinton foundation and Saudi-Arabia?

(Man I do really have to give out a lot of free drawings to make up for my opinion I guess ._. )

 

[Jinan B]

Well I'm glad we could disagree in peace Nova... I'll actually answer properly later I'm busy rn

Edit:: the New York Times 1922?? Forgive my lack of knowledge of history, but wasn't WW2 and all the hectic anti/semetic stuff a little after that?

 

[Nova Elgrin]

Me too :) It's always nice having a debate that doesn't end in name-calling and a real bad fight :)

Take your time and take care!

 

[Jabonicus]

I do see where you're coming from, however how about you see how he acts first and THEN go nuts? You can't prevent his presidency anyway (unless you're an assassin of some sort xD) so if you are super depressed now and in the end nothing too bad happens, all that anger and fear was for nothing :(

Look I really don't celebrate the guy either. The fact that his family's originating from Germany makes me cringe a lil' bit but a lot of people are acting like it's the end of the world - which I really think will not be the case.

Also you didn't answer my question concerning the Clinton foundation and Saudi-Arabia?

(Man I do really have to give out a lot of free drawings to make up for my opinion I guess ._. )

I hate Clinton as well, they both don't care for general populations well being. The biggest issue, albeit selfish, is that any action taken by Trump/Pence will likely effect me, while Saudi Arabia does not.

The situation there is terrible, and I would do anything to change it, but, if I'm honest, it doesn't effect me at the moment.

 

[FinnSimmons]

Trump is not Hitler. Populism is inherent to Democracies. And unlike the Weimar Republic which had little to no means of preventing a Chancellor from turning into a dictator, the US democracy as well as most other modern western democracies have "checks and balances" or something similar in place to prevent exactly something like that from happening.

This argument of 'Trump is the next Hitler' is a bit far fetched and right now its more speculative than based in reality. How about we let that one go for now. Just a suggestion.

 

[Noirceur]

Racism --> Trump's first wife was Czech, his current wife is Slovenian. I know they're white as well however as I've seen the left labeling foreigners as different race before, I just wanted to mention that. If you are referring to his statement regarding Mexicans, there are just as many positive quotes from Trump (-->Many fabulous people come in from Mexico and our country is better for it. But these people are here legally, and are severely hurt by those coming in illegally,") Trump is against illegal immigration - that doesn't make him rascist. Also a certain ammount of voters bled over from democrats aka Obama voters - how do you explain that? Why would they vote a black man in the first place, if they were all so rascist?

We're talking about a guy whose company was sued twice for refusing to rent out to black people, followed by him saying that he "has a great relationship with the blacks" which just sounds so normal, right? He openly insulted the Muslim mother of a soldier killed in Irak. He claimed a judge was biased against him because of his Mexican heritage. He constantly discriminated his black employees constantly, going so far as to make them all go in the back when he and Ivana visited and according to accounts once openly expressed that laziness was inherent in black people. It ain't just about immigration.

Sexism --> I can hardly see a sexist favouring his daughter over his sons and empowering and pushing her her whole life. Yes his comments were lowbowred, but if we only have people in offices that never said some lowbowred stuff their whole entire life we would have no people in any office at all (YES women can say nasty stuff as well)
By the way, I hope you are in the same way disgusted by Vice President Joe Biden sexually molesting a 13-year old girl on tape like you are by Trump saying some stupid stuff on tape

You mean the same daughter whose breast size he openly discussed with Joe Stern on his radio program? Trump publicly admitted that he did not treat women respectfully and I won't even go into his audio full of colorful language. But yeah, he probably isn't a sexist right? And tbh Biden's video just looked stupid and to me showed that he was just awkward around kids. Of course if it made them uncomfortable then I'm all for the guy answering for it.

Islamophobia ----> A phobia is a mental disorder. He's however expressing legit concern regarding the one religion that is responsible for almost all terror attacks in the whole world right now. And yes I'm aware that not all muslims are terrorists - my point still stands. Being concerned and cautious about mass muslim immigration as long as Islam hasn't experienced a reformation or emancipated itself from the stance of the Quran being the last word of god to mankind and therefor being immun to free interpretation, progression, the need of context or justification, seems pretty legit. I'm German and we just experienced that through the refugee crisis. And yes I've read the Quran and I'm reading the Hadith as well as Mohammeds biography by Ibn Ishâq right now. Yes there are poetic, wonderful phrases in the Quran (which really touched me), but they are abgrogated by the Prophet's Medinan surahs. Yep, the bloodspilling ones, unfortunately. So to worry about this fact isn't really fitting the description of a mental disorder I think.

It's still a stupid generalization. It's equal to me saying all black people are criminals. Or that all police officers have an itchy trigger finger. Just silly, specially considering TRUE Islam is a religion centered around peace. Extremists shouldn't be considered the face of Islam.

Homophobia---> I can not find a single homophobic statement of him? Last thing I heard about that, was him stating that the law allowing same-sex marriage should remain in effect? o.o

His personal stance is irrelevant when his party's platform and his running mate have publicly opposed same sex marriage and LGBT rights (Pence even proposed "conversion therapies" like, wtf). I know that even if he wanted to he couldn't outlaw something that the Supreme Court has already deemed a basic human right, but there's always the threat of him appointing conservative judges to the court who could possibly override such a ruling. But still, it's too early to make such assumptions.

Body Shaming---> He likes pretty women, so what ._. ? If you really build up your confience on if Donald Trump finds you attractive or not, you are most likely beyond saving anyway. Just look at the guys hairstyle! He looks ridiculous! Who cares what beauty standarts he's got ._. ?

The guy can like whatever he wants, but that gives him zero right to put a person down based solely on their physical appearance.

Also what is your stance on black and hispanic voters for Trump? Especially the female ones? Are they rascist and sexist as well?

Now, now, when did I say Trump voters where racist and sexist? I said that by voting Trump they were condoning such actions, even without realizing it. I blame it on people's ignorance and unwillingness to educate themselves on everything voting for someone entails.

 

[Gamov]

Edit:: the New York Times 1922?? Forgive my lack of knowledge of history, but wasn't WW2 and all the hectic anti/semetic stuff a little after that?

Though WW2 would not start for another 17 years, post WW1 Germany was a veritable powder keg of extremist movements who felt betrayed by their government for surrendering to the Allies. Not the least of whom was Hitler, who would attempt to overthrow the Weimar Republic just a year later in 1923 with his infamous Beer Hall Putsch.

And in regards to whether or not Trump is akin to Hitler, it's hard to say. But the man and his supporters - or at least a portion of them - are clearly racist bigots. I've seen evidence of this in my own home town. In the 15 years I've lived here, I can count maybe one or two instances of crimes that could probably loosely be described as hate crimes. But since the election, we've had two incidents near back to back of overt racism. One where some kids were seen marching through the school holding Trump posters chanting "white power", and another where a swastika was spray painted on the college concourse with the words "make America white again" scrawled around it.

And what has the man done to quiet anyone's fears? Nothing. In fact, he's already claimed the protesters are "professionals incited by the media". Granted he corrected that statement about 3 hours later, but the sentiment is already there and no amount of backpedaling he pulls is going to convince me otherwise.

 

[Nova Elgrin]

We're talking about a guy whose company was sued twice for refusing to rent out to black people, followed by him saying that he "has a great relationship with the blacks" which just sounds so normal, right? He openly insulted the Muslim mother of a soldier killed in Irak. He claimed a judge was biased against him because of his Mexican heritage. He constantly discriminated his black employees constantly, going so far as to make them all go in the back when he and Ivana visited and according to accounts once openly expressed that laziness was inherent in black people. It ain't just about immigration.

1973 hm? Quite a different time back then. Quite a different man as well most likely. However the Trumps (he and his father) and the government came to an agreement and they were never found guilty.
And is it really so far-fetched that a Mexican judge was biased against him (because of his stance on illegal Mexican immigration) when you youself admit that you would be afraid of living in America during his presidency and therefor you seem to be biased as well ^^°?
Do you have any (credible) sources for your claims of him discriminating blacks, other than what some sore Liberals might accuse him of? Any alligations that have been proven to be a true?

You mean the same daughter whose breast size he openly discussed with Joe Stern on his radio program? Trump publicly admitted that he did not treat women respectfully and I won't even go into his audio full of colorful language. But yeah, he probably isn't a sexist right? And tbh Biden's video just looked stupid and to me showed that he was just awkward around kids. Of course if it made them uncomfortable then I'm all for the guy answering for it.

Yep that one, don't know how it takes away from how much he adores his daughter just because he complimated her in a weird way. He also stated he had great respect for women ^^° And I already said that some of his statements are awkward, however you still act as if I would endlessly glorify him. The important question here is: Do you really believe him to introduce legislations that would disadvantage women? I highly, highly doubt it.

It's still a stupid generalization. It's equal to me saying all black people are criminals. Or that all police officers have an itchy trigger finger. Just silly, specially considering TRUE Islam is a religion centered around peace. Extremists shouldn't be considered the face of Islam.

You still do the same stupid generalization when claiming each and every single Trump-supporter was condoning --> racismn, sexism and all that other stuff. And don't act innocent on that one, I see where you wanna go with this. It's the concept of : Only racsist can condone racismn, only sexists condone sexismn and so on. I really don't fall for this cheap trick. Dress it up all you want, you do generalize Trump-Voters.

And also: *sigh* you didn't really read what I wrote there did you? Have you read the Quran, the Hadith? You claim the TRUE Islam is a religion centered around peace and you have nothing to back it up. Are you even familiar with the concept of abrogation? And also you confirm me so much without even wanting it: you say peace is the true spirit of Islam? And if I say: conquest is the true spirit of Islam? Hm? What now? Because it is BOTH there in the Quran. What makes your claim stronger than mine? Right, nothing. You're however practically handing me the justification to seek whatever phrases I prefer because if the peaceful parts of Quran count as a moral example for life, why wouldn't the ones that are calling for the death of the kuffar? (non-believers). Only differnce is the warmongering, unforgiving suhras overrule the peaceful ones of Mekka and the very early Median time, not the other time around. Unfortunately.

But still, it's too early to make such assumptions.

Tha's what I'm saying the whole time?

The guy can like whatever he wants, but that gives him zero right to put a person down based solely on their physical appearance.

What gives you the right to put people down based solely on their political opinion?

Now, now, when did I say Trump voters where racist and sexist? I said that by voting Trump they were condoning such actions, even without realizing it. I blame it on people's ignorance and unwillingness to educate themselves on everything voting for someone entails.

----->You still do the same stupid generalization when claiming each and every single Trump-supporter was condoning --> racismn, sexism and all that other stuff. And don't act innocent of that one, I see where you wanna go with this. Only racsist can condone racismn, only sexists condone sexismn and so on. I really don't fall for this cheap trick. Dress it up all you want, you do generalize Trump-Voters.

 

[FinnSimmons]

It's still a stupid generalization. It's equal to me saying all black people are criminals. Or that all police officers have an itchy trigger finger. Just silly, specially considering TRUE Islam is a religion centered around peace. Extremists shouldn't be considered the face of Islam.

The problem is that the general Muslim population does not seem to have too big a problem with Sharia. That's what I read in polls and also a personal experience for me. But Sharia alone goes against every western principle of an independent judiciary system and most importantly segregation of church and state. It just doesn't mix at all.

The guy can like whatever he wants, but that gives him zero right to put a person down based solely on their physical appearance.

Being a douche is not illegal. It's simply not very nice. But there is nothing you can do about it.
In the end it's his opinion and even if it's not the same as mine he's entitled to it. As he should be.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
quote by Evelin Beatrice Hall

Now, now, when did I say Trump voters where racist and sexist? I said that by voting Trump they were condoning such actions, even without realizing it. I blame it on people's ignorance and unwillingness to educate themselves on everything voting for someone entails.

For a lot of people it was 'vote Trump or not vote at all'. And for some it was 'vote Trump to keep Mrs. Clinton out of the White House'. To me that are both valid reasons. Not necessarily very good ones but still valid ones. You'd rather see reasons like 'this candidates policies are more to my liking' but that was not what the 2016 US presidential election was about, or was it?

 

[TheSilentWind]

Just gonna put this link here about the #(according to the poll) of Muslims support Sharia Law: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

It's a # of polls that have been done by Pew Research which is a credible org imo. This polls don't represent the overall Muslim population, but the # of people that support it(based on the polls at least) are slightly worrying.

 

[Prudence]

So I've heard a lot of people cite that Pence supports conversion therapy, and here is Snopes on it.

The comment was from the Year 2000 when Pence as talking about a congressional HIV/AIDS care bill, and advocated for congressional funding for "institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."

So no, Pence is not "Shock the Cock Away" Pence. If that's the best you've got on Pence as far as Conversion Therapy, and you still damn him for it, allow me to dredge up some 1996-2000 era footage of Hillary Clinton when someone says "gay marriage". I promise you won't like it.

 

[Jabonicus]

So I've heard a lot of people cite that Pence supports conversion therapy, and here is Snopes on it.

The comment was from the Year 2000 when Pence as talking about a congressional HIV/AIDS care bill, and advocated for congressional funding for "institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."

So no, Pence is not "Shock the Cock Away" Pence. If that's the best you've got on Pence as far as Conversion Therapy, and you still damn him for it, allow me to dredge up some 1996-2000 era footage of Hillary Clinton when someone says "gay marriage". I promise you won't like it.

"Societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family." - Pence on gay marriage, 2006.

An act was being passed in 2007. The Employment Non-Discrimination Act would have banned discrimination against people based on sexual orientation. Mike Pence voted against it, declaring it: "Wages war on freedom and religion in the workplace.”

2010, the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy was being challenged (before it fell in 2011). Pence is famously quoted on the subject as saying he did not wish for the military to become "A backdrop for social experimentation.”

 

[Prudence]

Year 1996, Hillary Clinton stands by and supports her husband, Bill Clinton, as he signs the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Year 2000, Hillary Clinton: "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

Year 2002, Hillary Clinton: "Do you think New York State should recognize gay marriage?" "No"

Year 2003, Hillary Clinton: "You know, marriage has a meaning that ... I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can't have ... many of the same rights and the same ... respect for their unions that they are seeking. And I would like to see that be more accepted than it is. ... I also think that we can realize the same results for many committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws."

Year 2004, Hillary Clinton: "I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.”

Year 2007, Hillary Clinton: "You support Civil Unions, but not gay marriage?" "uh-huh" - "I've always believed that marriage should be left to the states, because that's where it's always been."

 

[The Captain]

Year 1996, Hillary Clinton stands by and supports her husband, Bill Clinton, as he signs the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Year 2000, Hillary Clinton: "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

Year 2002, Hillary Clinton: "Do you think New York State should recognize gay marriage?" "No"

Year 2003, Hillary Clinton: "You know, marriage has a meaning that ... I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can't have ... many of the same rights and the same ... respect for their unions that they are seeking. And I would like to see that be more accepted than it is. ... I also think that we can realize the same results for many committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws."

Year 2004, Hillary Clinton: "I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.”

Year 2007, Hillary Clinton: "You support Civil Unions, but not gay marriage?" "uh-huh" - "I've always believed that marriage should be left to the states, because that's where it's always been."

This is what happens when you have no political left-wing. It becomes a contest of trying to prove who is more or less right wing than the other guy.

 

[Kaane]

Year 1996, Hillary Clinton stands by and supports her husband, Bill Clinton, as he signs the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Year 2000, Hillary Clinton: "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

Year 2002, Hillary Clinton: "Do you think New York State should recognize gay marriage?" "No"

Year 2003, Hillary Clinton: "You know, marriage has a meaning that ... I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can't have ... many of the same rights and the same ... respect for their unions that they are seeking. And I would like to see that be more accepted than it is. ... I also think that we can realize the same results for many committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws."

Year 2004, Hillary Clinton: "I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.”

Year 2007, Hillary Clinton: "You support Civil Unions, but not gay marriage?" "uh-huh" - "I've always believed that marriage should be left to the states, because that's where it's always been."

One of the many reasons why I couldn't vote for her. She's a flaming neocon who somehow convinced half of the entire United States that she's somehow the most progressive vag-bearer on the face of the earth.

None of these quotes change what Pence has said, however. He is unabashedly afraid of putting down the gays and taking away their rights, among other socially backwards things, it's already quite obvious. At least Clinton pretended to like those things lawl. But to be fair, that dishonesty is probably even worse.

Imo, both of them can BASE jump off Trump Tower without parachutes.

 

[Prudence]

One of the many reasons why I couldn't vote for her. She's a flaming neocon who somehow convinced half of the entire United States that she's somehow the most progressive vag-bearer on the face of the earth.

None of these quotes change what Pence has said, however. He is unabashedly afraid of putting down the gays and taking away their rights, among other socially backwards things, it's already quite obvious. At least Clinton pretended to like those things lawl. But to be fair, that dishonesty is probably even worse.

Imo, both of them can BASE jump off Trump Tower without parachutes.

oh definitely not trying to use the whole "CLINTON SAID IT SO ITS OKAY THAT PENCE SAID IT" I'm more going for the "If you're gonna complain about Pence saying it, you can't hero-ize Hillary"

 

[Jabonicus]

oh definitely not trying to use the whole "CLINTON SAID IT SO ITS OKAY THAT PENCE SAID IT" I'm more going for the "If you're gonna complain about Pence saying it, you can't hero-ize Hillary"

Trust me, I despise Hillary.

 

[Green Ranger]

Vag-bearer

Really?

 

[Noirceur]

1973 hm? Quite a different time back then. Quite a different man as well most likely. However the Trumps (he and his father) and the government came to an agreement and they were never found guilty.
And is it really so far-fetched that a Mexican judge was biased against him (because of his stance on illegal Mexican immigration) when you youself admit that you would be afraid of living in America during his presidency and therefor you seem to be biased as well ^^°?
Do you have any (credible) sources for your claims of him discriminating blacks, other than what some sore Liberals might accuse him of? Any alligations that have been proofen to be a true?

I must say first, that you're really fun to debate with :) Kudos.
So, I really don't know if you tried to convey that their "agreement" with the government was a good thing. Further, judge Curiel isn't Mexican; he's American and has actually ruled more times in favor of Trump than not, including his motion to delay the trial until after the elections making Trump's comments on his ethnicity rather uncalled for. I also failed to see what I have to do with this? I would be terrified of living in the USA because Trump and Pence represent everything I stand against. You may disagree, but it's my opinion. Here is my favourite article on Trump's serial racism. I'm aware that some stuff may be hyperbole, but to have so many instances to actually incite journalists to write lists about your racist incidences is unbelievable. http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

Yep that one, don't know how it takes away from how much he adores his daughter just because he complimated her in a weird way. He also stated he had great respect for women ^^° And I already said that some of his statements are awkward, however you still act as if I would endlessly glorify him. The important question here is: Do you really believe him to introduce legislations that would disadvantage women? I highly, highly doubt it.

I sure wouldn't "compliment" my daughter by discussing her breasts with anyone, let alone commenting that if she weren't my daughter I'd proabbaly be dating her. And I think that talking about grabbing women's genitalia and hooking up with married women reaaaalyyy breaks the line of "awkward" and goes into "straight-up wrong and disgusting". And it's not about whether his laws and policies will or will not affect woemn, it's about having a man who has called women pigs and other horrible stuff be the president of a country.

You still do the same stupid generalization when claiming each and every single Trump-supporter was condoning --> racismn, sexism and all that other stuff. And don't act innocent on that one, I see where you wanna go with this. It's the concept of : Only racsist can condone racismn, only sexists condone sexismn and so on. I really don't fall for this cheap trick. Dress it up all you want, you do generalize Trump-Voters.

And also: *sigh* you didn't really read what I wrote there did you? Have you read the Quran, the Hadith? You claim the TRUE Islam is a religion centered around peace and you have nothing to back it up. Are you even familiar with the concept of abrogation? And also you confirm me so much without even wanting it: you say peace is the true spirit of Islam? And if I say: conquest is the true spirit of Islam? Hm? What now? Because it is BOTH there in the Quran. What makes your claim stronger than mine? Right, nothing. You're however practically handing me the justification to seek whatever phrases I prefer because if the peaceful parts of Quran count as a moral example for live, why wouldn't the ones that are calling for the death of the kuffar? (non-believers). Only differnce is the warmongering, unforgiving suhras overrule the peaceful ones of Mekka and the very early Median time, not the other time around. Unfortunately.

I am familiar with Islam and was perhaps bringing my own personal experience with into my opinion, for which I apologize. I am familiar with abrogation (it is used in Islam to describe the contradictions and overruling verses between the Quran and Sunnah, for those interested) and I am well aware of the multiple approaches that the Quran can be read in. I could equally ask what makes my view on the Quran incorrect, but it would be meaningless. Most religions have, at some point in their history, advocated hate and violence. Still, my point on extremists being perceived as the entirety of the Muslim people still stands.

What gives you the right to put people down based solely on their political opinion?

I'm not putting anyone down, and I apologize if it appeared to be that way. In the end, I respect all views and opinions even though I may disagree with them. I do belive, however, that people must do their homework and research not only the policies and political views of each candidate participitaing in their elections but also their quality as human beings. Trump may or may not do negative stuff during his presidency, but why reach a state in which people go "oh I hope Trump doesn't turn out that bad" and other uncertanties. Why not get rid of them by electing a candidate who is a decent human being and doesn't arise the constant doubt of wether they'll be good or bad? (and no, I ain't talking about Hillary).

----->You still do the same stupid generalization when claiming each and every single Trump-supporter was condoning --> racismn, sexism and all that other stuff. And don't act innocent of that one, I see where you wanna go with this. Only racsist can condone racismn, only sexists condone sexismn and so on. I really don't fall for this cheap trick. Dress it up all you want, you do generalize Trump-Voters.

My point above mainly answers this one, but the main point here is that by putting a president who has commited actions of those natures in the White House, they are basically opening the door for such actions to continue in a much more dangerous context. I know not all Trump supporters are racists/sexists/homophobes, etc. but they still made a person with all those characteristics their president.

Now we could go on and on with this, but the truth is that we won't change each other's opinion and I don't want to spark conflict. Cheers.