Chivalry and Women

[MoreThanSane]

Having written a few papers on chivalry and its effects and consequences, as well as done a significant amount of research into the matter, I'm hoping to learn SWRP's thoughts.

I'm an adamant advocate of etiquette, so, naturally, chivalry is something that comes into play in my day-to-day life. Some women, however, tend to feel that a man's going out of his way in order to display a chivalrous attitude is disrespectful to their status of equality and their independence. And quite understandably, what with the pains taken to ensure women's rights. Obviously, there must be a certain balance, and most likely a line that divides between courtesy and disrespect.

So, like I said, I want to know what SWRP thinks, though specifically the women. Is there a line? Where is that line? General thoughts? Concerns? New ideas? Is chivalry outright disrespectful? Or, conversely, is it a necessity? I realize this isn't a raging controversy, but I find it enlightening and rather important nonetheless.

All comments of a non-idiotic (i.e. derogatory/sexist and/or spam) nature are, of course, welcome.

Discuss!

 

[BLADE]

Don't be a dick. Treat men and women with the same inherent dignity as all human beings deserve.

/The end

 

[Cassanova]

I actually find that some women do find that chivalry is outdated and a waste of time. But honestly, chivalry (unless being used for the sole purpose to get sex) is simply an extension upon normal politeness. By that I mean, I don't only hold the door open for girls, I hold it open for anyone else in the group with me, or for any random stranger who appears to be straggling or heading in the same direction.

I've never been 'called out' on chivalrous actions towards women, but I know a few girls who are HUGE feminists and despise the idea... Actually they hate gender labelling in its entirety - another debate entirely.

 

[MoreThanSane]

Don't be a dick. Treat men and women with the same inherent dignity as all human beings deserve.

/The end

Of course all human beings deserve respect, but should our manners be unchanging around people of all genders and ages? Example: if I were in a hurry at the grocery store but noticed an older couple behind be while entering, I would stop and hold the door for them. If they were younger, I would not. Is that being a dick?

I realize that's not part of the men/women debate, but I'm curious as to your opinion.

 

[Horizon]

I actually find that some women do find that chivalry is outdated and a waste of time.

I'm not really joking by this, but is this where all the assholes tend to fit in well?

 

[Master Maverick]

In a way, my opinion doesn't really hold much weight. However, in another way, it holds quite a bit. Depends on how you look at it.

Anywho, it's the 'going out of one's way' part that I believe is the issue. I'm all for respect, but 'etiquette', not so much. That is; pulling a woman's chair out for them, standing up when they stand, opening all doors for them and letting them in first.

I'm all for equality and respect. I mean, I'm sure that has something to do with my being gay, but I'm not really for treating women like they either; can't do anything for themselves or require respect just because they happen to have certain physiological features. I see a person as a person, not what reproductive organs they happen to have been born with.

That's about it for me.

 

[Shiuzu]

Unless the person is somehow differently abled or incapable of helping themselves I don't see a reason to draw a line. We're all just people.

The problem with equality today is that people try to raise and edify one group over another, that's not equality, that's what's known as white male guilt. It's drawing unnecessary lines.

 

[BLADE]

Of course all human beings deserve respect, but should our manners be unchanging around people of all genders and ages?

Insofar as possible. Manners should change only insofar as is conformable with making others comfortable whilst remaining true to ourselves.

This stuff isn't really hard. People trip themselves up with their own social baggage bullshit.

 

[Shiuzu]

Insofar as possible. Manners should change only insofar as is conformable with making others comfortable whilst remaining true to ourselves.

This stuff isn't really hard. People trip themselves up with their own social baggage bullshit.

Unless you get yourself a boat...and then, y'know...

[youtube]MZ1lc6KASWg[/youtube]

 

[Dragon Fae]

I personally respond better to a man who is being respectful. What I hate is a man rushing to the door when you're closer to open it. If a guy opens the door for me, I reciprocate or at least thank him for it. Will I just wait for a guy to behave in such a manner to me? No, I will always show him respect and be nice. Will he be able to sway me more if he's being very gentleman like? Oh yes. It's one reason I love military men.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Don't be a dick. Treat men and women with the same inherent dignity as all human beings deserve.

/The end

This. Be nice because they are people. Not out of some outdated sense that a gender needs to be held above another. If someone is behind you, hold the door. If someone needs a seat, give it to them. You are one of two human beings walking opposite paths? Let them pass through. Just be a decent person to all. It isn't hard.

Even if people are being dicks I give them ONE chance. I be nice to them once. They acknowledge it or return the favor I continue my generosity.

 

[MoreThanSane]

The problem with equality today is that people try to raise and edify one group over another, that's not equality, that's what's known as white male guilt. It's drawing unnecessary lines.

Very well put. The constant overcompensation is the cause of many sociological issues.

Insofar as possible. Manners should change only insofar as is conformable with making others comfortable whilst remaining true to ourselves.

This stuff isn't really hard. People trip themselves up with their own social baggage bullshit.

Interesting. I like your emphasis on the self. It's something that many, in my experience, don't give sufficient attention.

I personally respond better to a man who is being respectful. What I hate is a man rushing to the door when you're closer to open it. If a guy opens the door for me, I reciprocate or at least thank him for it. Will I just wait for a guy to behave in such a manner to me? No, I will always show him respect and be nice. Will he be able to sway me more if he's being very gentleman like? Oh yes. It's one reason I love military men.

This seems to be the consensus among the majority of women I've spoken with on the matter. And very logically so.

Any other thoughts? C'mon, this is intriguing!

 

[Bubbles]

I kind of feel like in the world today, chivalry = flirting. In my experience anyway. When someone goes out of their way to be extra nice, they want to get in your pants. I'm not saying it's not nice to have someone open doors and make me feel all special, I've just never seen it happen just for the sake of being nice.

 

[Kaeb]

Not everyone deserves respect. Like idiots for example.

**** those guys.

 

[Radiwalker]

I personally try to be polite to everyone. Older, younger, men, women, doesn`t matter. I`ve held the door open for as many 5th graders, as for their parents, as well as teachers. I usually let everybody get on the bus / tram, before I do so myself. I have noticed some mean looks from some women, but I just ignore them. Honestly I almost haven`t had the chance to hold the door for any of my crushes. Also whenever I see somebody struggling, wether it`d be luggage, or just problems with walking, I offer a hand. All in all I try to help out other as best I can. I even put an idiotic smile on my face every morning, so that if anybody looks at me, they`d see a friendly face. Although sometimes it might come across wrong, because I`m not good at fake smiles.

Overall I think men should be chivalrious and not just to "tap that". I personally do it, because I`m a big fan of knights (not so much medieval knights, as the idea of a knight, how one should behave and so on.)

 

[Cailst]

Not everyone deserves respect. Like idiots for example.

**** those guys.

Why not? Sure, their ideas probably don't deserve respect but they are a human being and should at least possess basic dignity in the eyes of other people.

 

[Shiuzu]

People earn respect in the eyes of one and other. It's not given.

 

[Kaeb]

Why not? Sure, their ideas probably don't deserve respect but they are a human being and should at least possess basic dignity in the eyes of other people.

I don't really care, if someone is being an idiot, I'll treat them like an idiot. Respect is earned, not freely given.

 

[Hawken]

I don't really care, if someone is being an idiot, I'll treat them like an idiot. Respect is earned, not freely given.

I couldnt disagree with this more. Respect is something you should give to everyone until they prove they are unworthy of your respect.

 

[Kaeb]

I couldnt disagree with this more. Respect is something you should give to everyone until they prove they are unworthy of your respect.

Wow. To put it bluntly, **** no.

Mundane conversation example:

You encounter someone at a bar, you introduce yourself, and start to discuss a topic. You don't just immediately give them respect do you? You know nothing about the person, you're waiting until they say something, so you can discern something about them and form an opinion of them.

If they make a dumb racist joke, they're not worthy of respect and therefore it was never and will never be given.

If they say they like Jack Kerouac and whiskey, you buy them a drink and talk all night.

That's how it works. It is earned, not given.