Feminism and Gender Equality

[Kiro]

Men are different than women.

Men on average are stronger and faster than women. Women can get pregnant, men can not. Women have periods, men do not. Women are more emotional, men are not. These are facts and logically we can all agree upon them.

Men also require far less personal hygiene than a woman, a woman can easily get infections and diseases from not taking care of her body properly. Men on average are better warriors and fighters, look throughout all of human history and you will find that is is a man fighting in wars.

Mentally. Men are hardwired to be more aggressive. We are competitors and together we are stronger. I'm just going to name off some examples, my sisters fight amongst each other all the time. Men however, like my football team and the my fellow Marine Poolies, we all get along.

My general thoughts on all of that? Bullshit. Men being stronger on average might have been true thirty years ago. Nowadays, with more and more men being neckbeards that sit in their mother's basements all day and lurk in front of a computer screen all over the world, and gyms being open to women (for a long time, genuine gyms and many other such locations were male exclusive, let's remember that as well), women are just as strong as males, on average. You must remember to count the legions of neckbeards and nerds that only go outside to restock their fridge with Red Bull and microwave pizzas just as equally as your 'OORAH 'MURRICA, 'MURRICA jarheads. So no, it's not a fact, it's not logical, and no, we can't all agree upon them. As several other posters have already stated.

Also: Male pregnancy. So there's that too.

Bull. Fucking. Shit. Men require more hygiene than women. Not only do you need to shower, clean yourself, and apply deodorants just like we women do, but you have to shave frequently. Some every day, some every other day. Women, especially in these precious combat scenarios you like to harp on and on about, don't have to shave their legs. As for downstairs, we only need to be as careful as men do. So do look yourself in the mirror next time you shave.

As several others have stated before: Females have fought wars throughout history.

And men are no more "hardwired" to be more agressive or competitors than women, and men, more often than not, will try to compete against one another, even in a team. Using your siblings as an example is a horrible idea, because all siblings fight. I fight with my sister, I fight with my brother. But I work just splendidly alongside other women in the workplace, or in other situations. If women couldn't work together like you said, then society would have crumbled millenia ago, for while, as you're so keen to reiterate, the men were out fighting, who took care of the home? Who tended the fields, who kept society running, who made sure the children they left behind had food? Who defended their homes from bandits and pillagers? The Women.

Also, most of your opinions, and I will repeat that in case you missed it: your opinions, as they are not facts, are the archetype of what we've been discussing. You, my good fellow, are a shining example of the insidious nature of the sexism women have to deal with, and feminists, regardless of how hardline/extremist they may or may not be are opposed to. People who think that women are, by the very nature of being women, inferior and not fit to accomplish certain tasks, such as being in the Armed Forces.

 

[Nor'baal]

This isn't sexist, its laughably mis-informed.

Men on average are stronger and faster than women.

Yes, well done there. I mean that is basic biology of course, males in a species such as ours have adapted to be stronger. But in the real world, in which 'I am veh STRONK!' doesn't get you very far, it really doesn't matter.

Women can get pregnant, men can not.

Yes. Again, another biological factor here.

Women have periods, men do not.

See above.

Women are more emotional, men are not.

​

Lolno. Men express emotion in very different ways. For example, in every country in the world, more men commit suicide, suffer from depression and other similar mental illnesses that women, buy a huge margin, most often because of the ''Man Tough, Man Strong, Man MAKE FIRE!'' mentality that plagues our gender.

Men are more easily able to gain muscle mass, muscle needed to carry the excessive weight required in combat missions. Men also require far less personal hygiene than a woman, a woman can easily get infections and diseases from not taking care of her body properly.

This is just simply wrong for reasons stated by @Kiro

Men on average are better warriors and fighters, look throughout all of human history and you will find that is is a man fighting in wars.

I image the ancient people of Egypt, Troy, Assyria, China, Mongolia, Scandinavia, Greece, Macedonia, India, Japan, and Britain (and many more would disagree).

Also, speaking as a Brit: This is easily one of the most misinformed things I have seen on this site. Without the 'weak and feeble women' in WW2 and WW2, Britain would have been obliterated by the Nazis. Women operated the Home-Front, acted as spies and informants in Germany, and formed part of the resistance in France and Poland.

It is disgusting that their merits and countless contribution to keeping freedom in Europe are written off by bigotry like this.

Men also like to **** women. Imagine being a woman around ten males on a daily basis. All of these men are away from their lovers and have not had sex in a long while. They'd be horny as hell and it would be extremely uncomfortable for both the men and the woman.

Sexist, toward men. I can assure you I do not walk into a room of women and immediatly want to sleep with them all. Also, FYI:

Bosnia, Samoa, Cambodia, and conflicts in North Africa in the last 40 years, UN studies have shown that 41% of sexual attacks in wartime are performed by women. Additionally, 40% of attacks are on men. In Bosnia, this rose to nearly 75%.

In war, normal rational thinking flies out the window.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Funny how you think age matters in a topic such as this? Because it doesn't.

Of course it does.

You're 19 years old. You don't have the life experiences or the wisdom to be able to truly have a fully informed opinion on this. By 19, you've barely stepped out of the bubble that you've grown up in. As a 19 year old, you should be thinking less in terms of "I'm right, all you other people are wrong" and more in terms of "I'm 19, what can I learn from other people?" Maybe you won't change your opinion even with more information, but show me a 19 year old who thinks they have things figured out and I'll show you a delusional 19 year old.

I'm 27 and I still don't know what the fuck I'm talking about half the time.

 

[Kiro]

The only thing I know is that I know nothing. -- Aristotle.

 

[Nor'baal]

I'm 27 and I still don't know what the **** I'm talking about half the time.

Well, that explains a lot.​

Second time in like, two months. Please do not ban me. I need to SWRP to function like a normal adult in day to day life. Plz. Plz no.

 

[Officiant]

Just to stick up for precocious youngsters everywhere, the notion that the ideas, opinions and theories that I hold now are somehow diminished because I'm of a certain age is a pretty ( I use this word not to attack anyone or to seem defensive since I don't feel put off or any other real emotions) insulting. People's opinions change yes, empirically people's values and ideas change with age but to dismiss the ideas of someone who is young for the sake of age alone is apriori. Notice how no one dismissed my opinions or ideas throughout the thread but I'm also 19.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Just to stick up for precocious youngsters everywhere, the notion that the ideas, opinions and theories that I hold now are somehow diminished because I'm of a certain age is a pretty ( I use this word not to attack anyone or to seem defensive since I don't feel put off or any other real emotions) insulting. People's opinions change yes, empirically people's values and ideas change with age but to dismiss the ideas of someone who is young for the sake of age alone is apriori. Notice how no one dismissed my opinions or ideas throughout the thread but I'm also 19.

I didn't dismiss them. As you can see, many people in this thread are actively engaging in conversation with MrBossMan.

My point wasn't about who's right or who's wrong. It was about having the right attitude when you engage in a conversation, and recognizing the limitations of your own knowledge and experience. Because yes, age and the experiences and wisdom that come with it are absolutely a factor.

Understanding the limitations of your own knowledge and experience is an important point in a conversation like this one, because it goes beyond age too. Notice that it's only (some) men who are telling women in this thread that they're wrong about sexism. Men do not have the experiences with sexism that women do. That doesn't make their opinions invalid, but it does mean men need to come at the conversation with the right attitude and understand that maybe the experiences that women have should be given a bit more credence than they're otherwise being given.

 

[Marf]

Marf, my age is just a numeric value. I have been an "adult" for a long time. Disregarding everything I say SK ply because I'm younger than you does not seem fair.

@Brandon Rhea addressed this point perfectly. I am only 22, I have my views but I'm not politically savvy. If a topic is brought up that I don't know much about or have no experience with, I won't partake in the discussion. That's not the case in this instance, I do have experience which has shaped me as a woman, so this topic is very relevant to me, as it is to the other women who have posted.

After all of that, and this may sound cruel, but no I don't give a damn. Tell me do you think those people care for me or you? No. Now if you want me to get really nitpicky why is it only FGM? I'm sure males get their dicks cut off all the time, but no one wants to start a whole movement about that. Young boys are raped and sent into sexual slavery as well and yet somehow little girls are more important. Somehow it is the women you pity, and yet not a single mention of the men, the boys.

Not once did I say or imply that I pitied female victims over the male ones. Yes, atrocities happen to men as well, but generalizing everything into one simple focus diminishes the importance of the issues we're trying to address. In this thread, we are discussing the issues against women.

Are you serious? If a man sends a dick pic to a woman this is somehow viewing her as an object? Okay, fair enough. But if a woman sends a picture of her vagina or tits to a man, then under the same logic, the woman is demeaning the man.

More often than not, if a man sends a nude photo to a women without her consent, it's regarded as normal behaviour. If a woman sends a man a nude photo without his consent, she is regarded as a slut. There is this shitty double standard sewn into our structural norm that says when a man behaves with sexual assertion or promiscuity, it's impressive, he's a stud, but if a woman is sexually confident or enjoys sex, it's negative and she is a slut.

Again, in my own experience, I'm not prudish, I've always been open about sex and enjoyed discussing topics others might find lurid. Growing up, I was a weirdo, I was a freak. Girls in my year level were poorly regarded if they wore revealing clothes or or behaved in a risque manner. Whereas is it was a sign of achievement when a boy slept with alot of girls, flirted with them, or just behaved abrasively.

But somehow this does not count because of the "all men want is sex" stereotype that many women say and believe. Is this not true? Women discriminate against men by labeling them "sex robots"

I've never referred to any man I know as a "sex robot" and I have many great male friends here who I know perfectly well don't want sex from me, nor has any women I know used the "sex robot" term, frankly I haven't heard of it until now. I've had bad experiences, I have mental disorders, but I don't let them ruin my ability to interact with and befriend men I know I can trust, I manage it well these days.

and yet do you see men bitching about that?

That's exactly what you're doing right now, mate.

I mean hell I can't approach a woman without her immediate thought being "this dude wants to **** me"

Now as far as this "insidious subtle discrimination" ya, that's a bit of a stretch. I don't see it as such a MASSIVE problem as you and some other members would like to frame it as. To me it seems like you're using big words to make a problem out of nothing.

That's because sexual abuse and abuse against women is so rife within our society that we feel we constantly have to be on guard. This is often misinterpreted as you have finely displayed above, as women being "frigid", hating men, not wanting sex at all etc. Women want to enjoy themselves just as much as men do, we just want to feel safe and to live in a society where we don't have to be constantly suspicious or on guard. It's a matter of basic self-control and respect. Instead of teaching women how to "avoid getting raped", our society needs to be taught "don't rape." Yes, men are raped aswell, but clearly not to the extent that forces them to suspect or mistrust anyone who approaches them.

To me all of the above seems like individuals bullying you, not every single man. So because you are bullied, and your friends are abused, and your sister picked on, somehow you think that women don't have equal rights to men? To me this seems more like these people were hurt by other people, not men in general.

Of all the kids who harassed me during school, about three of them were girls and only in one-off circumstances, it was little more than talking behind my back and the odd rude insult. Overwhelming majority of my abusers were boys, including a male teacher, it was considerably more overt, more disgusting and it was more physical and sexual. I had drawings of genitals forced into my locker, penises drawn on my books, I was felt up by my teacher (a school priest), had my skirt lifted up, I was spat on and had food thrown at me, etc, etc and you can bet your arse it was gender oriented.

I'm gay, I have Asperger's, I didn't behave like most girls at my school. I liked to read about psychology and political history, I was obsessed with WWII and the early 20th century, listened to classical music, drew female nudes in art class, and read Marx and Lenin. That was a slap in the face to everything the boys at school expected from a female student. They were alienated by me, because I wasn't a girl they could go out with or show off for. The girls behaved with a certain kind of fear or distant revulsion, they didn't like that I wasn't one of them, but they were discrete about it, others were even fascinated. Regardless, they had a set idea of how genders should behave and acted with cruelty towards girls, boys aswell, who didn't meet those standards. That is inequality.

For the record, only one of my friends I know was abused by a woman, her stepmother. All the other incidents involved a male abuser.

If a man harasses you ladies, kick his ass. This will solve your problems, trust me. If you are being bullied, punch the bully in the nose.

I don't even need to tell you how dumb this is. Violence is terrible, war is terrible. I have no desire to attack or fight anyone and that attitude is why people assume feminists are violent misandrists, or that men are violent by nature. It's the reason that I can't get into a discussion about fucking Star Wars without shitting myself. Cruelty does not cease by more cruelty, but only by compassion. If more people understood this the world would be a better place.

 

[Green Ranger]

I don't have much time to go into more thorough detail, but Sinbi, I gave some of your sources the benefit of the doubt and looked into them.

So some of the quotes were misrepresentations that feature on lists like this, others came from self-described radicals and extremists that are pretty avidly denounced by many moderate feminists (eg Julie Bindel, who also argues for the destruction of heterosexuality in the same interview you referenced and has spoken at radfem misandrist conferences), others came from individuals that have no real actual connection to the organized feminist movement or weren't being said on behalf of feminism as a movement, and so on.

So, to counter the cherrypicking, I offer you some of my own late night quotetrawling that offers a slightly different perspective than what you're touting as the mainstream idea of feminism:

"The day will come when men will recognize woman as his peer, not only at the fireside, but in councils of the nation. Then, and not until then, will there be the perfect comradeship, the ideal union between the sexes that shall result in the highest development of the race" - Susan B. Anthony

"A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men." - Gloria Steinem

"Women, like men, should try to do the impossible, and when they fail, their failure should be a challenge to others." - Amelia Earhart

"The idea of being a feminist: so many women have come to this idea of it being anti-male and not able to connect with the opposite sex, but what feminism is about is equality and human rights. For me that is just an essential part of my identity." - Lena Dunham

"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat." - Rebecca West

“Feminism is not a dirty word. It does not mean you hate men, it does not mean you hate girls that have nice legs and a tan, and it does not mean you are a ‘bitch’ or ‘****’; it means you believe in equality.” - Kate Nash

“We have to free half of the human race, the women, so that they can help to free the other half.” - Emmeline Pankhurst

“I do not wish women to have power over men; but over themselves.” - Mary Shelley

“I hate to hear you talk about all women as if they were fine ladies instead of rational creatures. None of us want to be in calm waters all our lives.” Jane Austen

“Very early on in writing the series, I remember a female journalist saying to me that Mrs Weasley, 'Well, you know, she’s just a mother.' And I was absolutely incensed by that comment. Now, I consider myself to be a feminist, and I’d always wanted to show that just because a woman has made a choice, a free choice to say, 'Well, I’m going to raise my family and that’s going to be my choice. I may go back to a career, I may have a career part time, but that’s my choice.' Doesn’t mean that that’s all she can do. And as we proved there in that little battle, Molly Weasley comes out and proves herself the equal of any warrior on that battlefield.” - J.K. Rowling

“The point is not for women simply to take power out of men’s hands, since that wouldn’t change anything about the world. It’s a question precisely of destroying that notion of power.” - Simone de Beauvoir

“We all fight over what the label 'feminism' means, but for me it's about empowerment. It's not about being more powerful than men - it's about having equal rights with protection, support, justice. It's about very basic things. It's not a badge like a fashion item.” - Annie Lennox

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Of course it does.

You're 19 years old. You don't have the life experiences or the wisdom to be able to truly have a fully informed opinion on this. By 19, you've barely stepped out of the bubble that you've grown up in. As a 19 year old, you should be thinking less in terms of "I'm right, all you other people are wrong" and more in terms of "I'm 19, what can I learn from other people?" Maybe you won't change your opinion even with more information, but show me a 19 year old who thinks they have things figured out and I'll show you a delusional 19 year old.

I'm 27 and I still don't know what the **** I'm talking about half the time.

I'm 18, and I can change my mind. In several other threads I have proven this, to everyone in this thread who is arguing against me they should know my opinions do change. However, do theirs?

All this thread seems to be about is women getting "harassed" in general. Their getting inappropriately hit on, name called and slandered against.

So for some reason they are going to have the balls and say "MEN ARE BEING OPPRESSIVE! ITS HARDER TO BE A WOMAN!" Instead of confronting those individuals who hurt them.

Do women get slandered against? Yes, absolutely.
But so do other people. Like blacks, gays, Jews and Muslims, Christians and atheists, kids and elderly. EVERYONE gets hurt in their lifetime, not just women.

But hell if you think it helps (but it doesn't) then by all means keep on keepin on. Just know that this does not appear to be as big of a problem as others would like me to believe.

I have sisters who have been bullied in school. When one of my sisters was harrassesd or called a whore because she kissed another girl. I went up to the punk who decided he'd fuck with her, and I knocked his ass to the floor.

That kid never again messed with my sister.

So does my sister need this "feminist" movement because she was picked on? No.

Confront the abuseres and that should end your problems ladies.

 

[Tristyn]

Confront abusers and they abuse you more. What you should do is ask for help. And we never said only women getting abused, we are just focusing on them because that's what the thread is about.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Confront abusers and they abuse you more. What you should do is ask for help. And we never said only women getting abused, we are just focusing on them because that's what the thread is about.

Tomorrow I'm going to make a thread about saving the rain forests. Naturally the underlying subtext will be "other forests don't matter tho."

 

[Nor'baal]

Soon women will be going to School, working, voting!

That was sarcasm to show how stupid this has become.

^this arguement​

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

I think that the problem is that it has never been a two way street for guys when it comes to talking about issues regarding gender bias. There is no consideration for the fact that men receive discrimination too, as in genuine discrimination. Women can vote. Women can take positions in govenrment. Women can own corporations, run organizations, become rich, have social privelage, etc. They can have power and they can use it to be sexist. We do not live in a society that keeps women locked houses doing dishes all day while men go flaunt about their privelage with the local prostitutes. But for some reason people still think it's like that, and don't even consider that a man can experience discrimination. I mean, come on, a guy try's to be nice to a girl and people think he's trying to sleep with her and her sister. Men are told they are dumb, heartless, uncaring, unworthy of respect, perpetually aroused, incapable, unrefined and basically useless without a woman to help him, which is odd actually, considering there are reversed sentiments which state women need men. It is everywhere. I'm trying to remain kind about this for the sake of discussion, but still. And like other forms of sexism, this is done subtly to he pint where a man bringing it up is told he is overreacting. This is a legitimate thing that people ignore because they don't even realize it is happening. Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb and say people know exactly how bad it is, but don't give attention to it because of reasons I have yet to understand. The media is notorious for always casting men in this light, as women being the pretty much superior and more intellectual in every way. I blame it for a lot of these biases. Watch literally any sitcom and you will without question see this. Scratch that, watch any TV show or movie in general and see if you don't see something like this happen at least once. It's just a lot easier to see it as a guy rather than if you were a girl because, well, girls don't get offended by that. We do.

This does not represent feminism, I know. It is an abomination of the original ideal. But at the end of the day my question is this: what are people doing about it? What are you guys doing about it. There just seems like there is this disregard for these issues by a lot of people who claim to want equality. It's not that people agree with them. I'm sure no one here is going to be hateful and ignorant enough to actually believe this garbage, but it's not like much is being done to curtail it either. It's almost as if people are afraid to acknowledge that men get discriminated against because it undermines the sentiment that women are all victims of a patriarchy. So really, I just wish a lot more people would practice what they preach. Cause it does happen, it is important, and quite frankly, it never gets dealt with.

 

[Marf]

I'm 18, and I can change my mind. In several other threads I have proven this, to everyone in this thread who is arguing against me they should know my opinions do change. However, do theirs?

All this thread seems to be about is women getting "harassed" in general. Their getting inappropriately hit on, name called and slandered against.

So for some reason they are going to have the balls and say "MEN ARE BEING OPPRESSIVE! ITS HARDER TO BE A WOMAN!" Instead of confronting those individuals who hurt them.

Do women get slandered against? Yes, absolutely.
But so do other people. Like blacks, gays, Jews and Muslims, Christians and atheists, kids and elderly. EVERYONE gets hurt in their lifetime, not just women.

But hell if you think it helps (but it doesn't) then by all means keep on keepin on. Just know that this does not appear to be as big of a problem as others would like me to believe.

I have sisters who have been bullied in school. When one of my sisters was harrassesd or called a whore because she kissed another girl. I went up to the punk who decided he'd **** with her, and I knocked his ass to the floor.

That kid never again messed with my sister.

So does my sister need this "feminist" movement because she was picked on? No.

Confront the abuseres and that should end your problems ladies.

This was ignorant, insensitive and inappropriate macho nonsense regarding harassment and abuse. I'm not going to dignify this with a proper response. I'm done with you.

 

[Tristyn]

This was ignorant, insensitive and inappropriate macho nonsense regarding the victims of abuse. I'm not going to dignify this with a proper response. I'm done with you.

OH SNAP!!!!!

 

[Marf]

OH SNAP!!!!!

this is andro

you might have seen her around

i welcome any PC to come over and tell her that ladies can't fight

to her face

 

[Cheshire]

Jesus, this is terrifying and getting outta control.

 

[Tristyn]

Everyone reacts to abuse in different ways.

 

[Outlander]

Everyone is different, so everyone should be treated the same.

That's basically the long and short.